Hay: Northam to Condo

 
  moonetau Junior Train Controller

Putting this in the NSW forum as we are in 100% drought.
Great to see our friends in WA sending 20? B-doubles across the Nullabor loaded with hay.
But both origin and destination are on the main rail line.
Don't we have enough flat beds or whatever to do this kind of work?
Most freight Syd to Perth is already sent by rail (isn't it?).
How much would it have saved in diesel, drivers hours etc etc.??

Sponsored advertisement

  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Putting this in the NSW forum as we are in 100% drought.
Great to see our friends in WA sending 20? B-doubles across the Nullabor loaded with hay.
But both origin and destination are on the main rail line.
Don't we have enough flat beds or whatever to do this kind of work?
Most freight Syd to Perth is already sent by rail (isn't it?).
How much would it have saved in diesel, drivers hours etc etc.??
moonetau
And what a great advert it would have been for rail. A lost opportunity for SCT / PN to carry it as backload.

Thanks for posting, that is the first thing that I thought when I read the article.

BG
  a6et Minister for Railways

Putting this in the NSW forum as we are in 100% drought.
Great to see our friends in WA sending 20? B-doubles across the Nullabor loaded with hay.
But both origin and destination are on the main rail line.
Don't we have enough flat beds or whatever to do this kind of work?
Most freight Syd to Perth is already sent by rail (isn't it?).
How much would it have saved in diesel, drivers hours etc etc.??
And what a great advert it would have been for rail. A lost opportunity for SCT / PN to carry it as backload.

Thanks for posting, that is the first thing that I thought when I read the article.

BG
BrentonGolding
While I agree that it would have been good for rail to have the chance to haul the hay, and going back into earlier droughts such as the 64-66 & 82-83 drought, a lot of fodder and other rural items were railed as was stock on agistment more especially the first one.  Thing is that the rail operators had a lot of spare R/S and locomotives. along with crews to man the trains.

Today with privatisation, there really is not the spare rolling stock, nor many that would be suitable for that sort of transport such as open wagons available at the drop of a hat to provide the trains for the delivery of the fodder.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Putting this in the NSW forum as we are in 100% drought.
Great to see our friends in WA sending 20? B-doubles across the Nullabor loaded with hay.
But both origin and destination are on the main rail line.
Don't we have enough flat beds or whatever to do this kind of work?
Most freight Syd to Perth is already sent by rail (isn't it?).
How much would it have saved in diesel, drivers hours etc etc.??
And what a great advert it would have been for rail. A lost opportunity for SCT / PN to carry it as backload.

Thanks for posting, that is the first thing that I thought when I read the article.

BG
While I agree that it would have been good for rail to have the chance to haul the hay, and going back into earlier droughts such as the 64-66 & 82-83 drought, a lot of fodder and other rural items were railed as was stock on agistment more especially the first one.  Thing is that the rail operators had a lot of spare R/S and locomotives. along with crews to man the trains.

Today with privatisation, there really is not the spare rolling stock, nor many that would be suitable for that sort of transport such as open wagons available at the drop of a hat to provide the trains for the delivery of the fodder.
a6et
Also there Is trucking companies / owner drivers donating their time and use of their machines (with community support backing them)

The trucks would run from the hay shed to the farm paddock (something a train can't do)

If rail companies offered piggie backing / rolling highways, some of the journey could be done by rail.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
james.au
Unlikely be any bars to lash to !
  a6et Minister for Railways

How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
james.au
James how many of the modern flat wagons are really suitable for hay baling transport?  Most of them are basically skeletal types for container use. In saying that if their is a way than they could/should be a means.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
James how many of the modern flat wagons are really suitable for hay baling transport?  Most of them are basically skeletal types for container use. In saying that if their is a way than they could/should be a means.
a6et
Thats pretty well exactly what I was asking.  It sounds nice but not so easy to do.  Sometimes road is just the better option.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
james.au
I was thinking containerised as is done for export and hauled as backload as I understand a much higher volume of freight heads east > west than vice versa.

And rail crews can volunteer their time just as easily as truck drivers can, paths could be made avl foc by ARTC etc.

Reading the article it sounds like they raised $600K and that could have been used to pay the fuel bill

For what it's worth I think this sums up the mind set of this country. I need to move a few thousand bales of feed hay 3500km so I immediately think of using a whole bunch of trucks and using the more efficient method of Rail transport never even crosses my mind.

Not for a minute wanting to take anything away from this great cause (I am buying bales when I have a spare $20.00 or so https://www.buyabale.com.au/ ) just don't think it is a great use of resources and a missed opportunity for rail to put itself front and centre in the hearts and minds of many Australians

BG
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
I was thinking containerised as is done for export and hauled as backload as I understand a much higher volume of freight heads east > west than vice versa.

And rail crews can volunteer their time just as easily as truck drivers can, paths could be made avl foc by ARTC etc.

Reading the article it sounds like they raised $600K and that could have been used to pay the fuel bill

For what it's worth I think this sums up the mind set of this country. I need to move a few thousand bales of feed hay 3500km so I immediately think of using a whole bunch of trucks and using the more efficient method of Rail transport never even crosses my mind.

Not for a minute wanting to take anything away from this great cause (I am buying bales when I have a spare $20.00 or so https://www.buyabale.com.au/ ) just don't think it is a great use of resources and a missed opportunity for rail to put itself front and centre in the hearts and minds of many Australians

BG
BrentonGolding
Would require coordination, cooperation and organisation.
Privatisation destroyed all that.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
I was thinking containerised as is done for export and hauled as backload as I understand a much higher volume of freight heads east > west than vice versa.

And rail crews can volunteer their time just as easily as truck drivers can, paths could be made avl foc by ARTC etc.

Reading the article it sounds like they raised $600K and that could have been used to pay the fuel bill

For what it's worth I think this sums up the mind set of this country. I need to move a few thousand bales of feed hay 3500km so I immediately think of using a whole bunch of trucks and using the more efficient method of Rail transport never even crosses my mind.

Not for a minute wanting to take anything away from this great cause (I am buying bales when I have a spare $20.00 or so https://www.buyabale.com.au/ ) just don't think it is a great use of resources and a missed opportunity for rail to put itself front and centre in the hearts and minds of many Australians

BG
Would require coordination, cooperation and organisation.
Privatisation destroyed all that.
YM-Mundrabilla
Farming is a business that cycle through good times and bad just like any business. I don't see other businesses having their hand out for assistance. The drought will send more family run farms to the wall with the majority of farming run by large corporations which can withstand droughts more effectively.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The key word here is agility.
This is a major strong point for the road freight industry, road is the most agile form of freight transport by 1.609 country kilometres which allows the industry to get stuff done.

Rail, on the other hand, has either has a small amount of agility (SCT, Balco) or even less (ex-GovRail operators like PN, Aurizon) which means they never had a chance of getting in the game.

Even in the unlikely event that someone involved in the rail world had thought of this first, they still would have been beaten to it by the more agile road operators who get on with the job rather than holding meetings.

Theoretical greater efficiency doesn't count for anything if someone else is getting the job done and you're not.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Forgive my cynicism but parts of corporate Australia see the marketing opportunities that the drought has provided and some parts don't. I would place the large rail companies in the latter group.

     As for suitable wagons, I believe PN has a sizeable fleet of ex-FreightVictoria 60ft container flats that still appear to have tie-down hardware in place.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Forgive my cynicism but parts of corporate Australia see the marketing opportunities that the drought has provided and some parts don't. I would place the large rail companies in the latter group.

     As for suitable wagons, I believe PN has a sizeable fleet of ex-FreightVictoria 60ft container flats that still appear to have tie-down hardware in place.
fzr560
'I would place the large rail companies in the latter group.'

Plus the banks (until the Royal Commission anyway) ...............

You really need opens (preferably 75 foot) AOOXs to carry baled hay. Does anyone still use AOOXs in traffic today?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
How easy is it to lash hay bales to a flat car?  And what additional risk procedures does rail require be addressed (that road probably does not...).
I was thinking containerised as is done for export and hauled as backload as I understand a much higher volume of freight heads east > west than vice versa.

And rail crews can volunteer their time just as easily as truck drivers can, paths could be made avl foc by ARTC etc.

Reading the article it sounds like they raised $600K and that could have been used to pay the fuel bill

For what it's worth I think this sums up the mind set of this country. I need to move a few thousand bales of feed hay 3500km so I immediately think of using a whole bunch of trucks and using the more efficient method of Rail transport never even crosses my mind.

Not for a minute wanting to take anything away from this great cause (I am buying bales when I have a spare $20.00 or so https://www.buyabale.com.au/ ) just don't think it is a great use of resources and a missed opportunity for rail to put itself front and centre in the hearts and minds of many Australians

BG
Would require coordination, cooperation and organisation.
Privatisation destroyed all that.
YM-Mundrabilla
I would also add where is the hay coming from?

Does the local railway line have any suitable hard stand locations to load?

Is the hay being moved in sufficient tonnages?

Would drivers volunteer their time? Can they? I remember a few years back in Tas on a heritage train, I was told that the Tasrail drivers cannot work for free for legal reasons, thus must be paid (open to correction). Now what they do with their pay is their choice.

If coming from Qld into NSW, then its more complex due to the rail network layout on each side of the border and Break of Gauge in Brisbane.

Much easier for a truck who is volunteering his time and rig to drive to a donation farm, load up and head direct to the farm being supported.

However I remember a few years back (another drought), Angry Anderson moved hay from southern Vic into NW NSW by train on one of those Channel 9 drought rescue missions. I believe the train and crew were donated by National Rail ???
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
' However I remember a few years back (another drought), Angry Anderson moved hay from southern Vic into NW NSW by train on one of those Channel 9 drought rescue missions. I believe the train and crew were donated by National Rail ??? '

I don't remember the details now but basically true. Angry Anderson was certainly involved.
For some reason I had a recollection of WA being involved but not sure. NR certainly donated their part of the operation. FreightCorp may have also have covered their section of the deal but the memory is a bit hazy beyond the provision of a heap of 75 foot opens.
  mikado5917 Station Staff

There was a news item in the last week or so about a feed merchant in Parkes who is regularly shipping containerised stockfeed from WA to his business by rail. Not sure if it is hay or some kind of grain. Given the way our intermodal operations work, I suspect that the containers have to go to Forrestfield for loading.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
There is already grain on backload on rail from Western Australia to nsw.

PN carries some 2 weeks ago.

But agreed more could have been done. Maybe wagons of the gondola type were needed ?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
There is already grain on backload on rail from Western Australia to nsw.

PN carries some 2 weeks ago.

But agreed more could have been done. Maybe wagons of the gondola type were needed ?
freightgate
What grain are we talking?  Is it canola for crushing again or more feed grains?

Its great to see the network being used for domestic haulage.
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

Loving the expert opinions floating around in this thread from people without a clue but who love to comment anyway.
Bailed Hay is easily loaded onto the 20 and 40 foot open containers of which there are thousands...you all know the type of container a flat deck with 2 end walls just as it is on semi trailers,absolutly no need for any flat wagons or bogie opens at all.

For the last 4 months there has been a constant flow of Road Trains and B doubles North bound through here in Hay on the Mid Western highway approximatly one every 15 minutes with the corosponding empty movements south bound.

These are ALL paid freight movents by trucking companies apart from 2 Drought relief convoys.
SHELL Roadhouse has gone from 1 B double of Diesel per week to 3 deliveries per week to cater for this traffic.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

What about mustering the sheep and cattle onto an overnight Noah's ark type freight service, say in Parkes and Condo and doing several hook and pulls into adjistment lands in WA? Maybe pick up any SA mobs along the way...

Then you wouldn't need hay, and the herds can be brought back into NSW when the grass is greener.

We used to do a lot of long distance droving once upon a time. Australia is a big country.

Where are those ex AN cattle class wagons/cages kept these days? I ain't talking sit up class.
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

Glad to see you put a huge amont of thought into that post.
Ha e you ever heard of or sighted Stock  rates they come in Single trailer...B Double..B Triple and Road train sizes and pick up from on property Stockyards and deliver them to the same mostly without having to stage along the way....do try to think before hitting submit.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

What about mustering the sheep and cattle onto an overnight Noah's ark type freight service, say in Parkes and Condo and doing several hook and pulls into adjistment lands in WA? Maybe pick up any SA mobs along the way...

Then you wouldn't need hay, and the herds can be brought back into NSW when the grass is greener.

We used to do a lot of long distance droving once upon a time. Australia is a big country.

Where are those ex AN cattle class wagons/cages kept these days? I ain't talking sit up class.
ANR
How many stock loading facilities do you see near rail?
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Loving the expert opinions floating around in this thread from people without a clue but who love to comment anyway.
Bailed Hay is easily loaded onto the 20 and 40 foot open containers of which there are thousands...you all know the type of container a flat deck with 2 end walls just as it is on semi trailers,absolutly no need for any flat wagons or bogie opens at all.

For the last 4 months there has been a constant flow of Road Trains and B doubles North bound through here in Hay on the Mid Western highway approximatly one every 15 minutes with the corosponding empty movements south bound.

These are ALL paid freight movents by trucking companies apart from 2 Drought relief convoys.
SHELL Roadhouse has gone from 1 B double of Diesel per week to 3 deliveries per week to cater for this traffic.
42101 A end
You're pretty much on the money. You'd need open top containers, tarptainers or, better yet, 40' flat racks. FCL Transport did just that into NSW some years ago. A train load of feed into Parkes on flat racks so it can be done but as YM says, it requires co-operation and co-ordination.
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

Parkeshub.
Very much spot on with those.
The open tops would be handy for the 1 tonne bulker bags of feed grain.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.