High Capacity Metro Trains (HCMT) Order

 
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Disconnected may be referring to the 3 meters of rail that are "not in position" near the wash
thekingoffoxes
Quite possibly, it looked 'complete' when I went through last week, although I'm usually concentrating on the plethora of workers all trying to give the all-right hand signal (even if they're miles away from the track) so I may have missed that! Still wondering about his reference to being disconnected again on Wednesday though? Unless he meant Friday after the occo?

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  nozza99 Station Master

Location: Warrnambool, Vic
The mainline connection is yet to be complete as said above. A temporary solution must have been organised. As of Wednesday I have seen the yard disconnected from mainline again at both entrances.
I'm sorry nozza99, but you might have your wires crossed somewhere or missed what you saw. There definitely was a complete and permanent connection into Pakenham East which was used for the transfer. It can be clearly seen in 'thekingoffoxes' video running next to the wash shed from the mainline. There were no signals or point machines though hence the occo. The thing only went in there early Thursday morning with the return trip of the locos and wagons was Friday just passed, so i'm not sure what your comment of "disconnected again as of Wednesday" has got to do with anything?
Disconnected may be referring to the 3 meters of rail that are "not in position" near the wash which can be seen at the 55 second mark. Could be where a catch point will be installed?


https://youtu.be/xK3n4IP-KmI?t=55
thekingoffoxes

Sorry i must have had my days mixed up. Some time after the SSR consist left early Friday, sections of track have been removed between the mainline turnouts and the yard in this location. Roughly a 5 - 10 metre gap I think. This is at both mainline connections. My guess is they may be installing catchpoints.
Seen from a Gippsland bound train.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Sorry i must have had my days mixed up. Some time after the SSR consist left early Friday, sections of track have been removed between the mainline turnouts and the yard in this location. Roughly a 5 - 10 metre gap I think. This is at both mainline connections. My guess is they may be installing catchpoints.
Seen from a Gippsland bound train.
nozza99
Are catch points still used on modern rail projects in Vic? I thought that they had been ditched in favour of stub sidings like the one at the new(ish) Calder Park stabling yard.

Siding away from the main line with a short run and then baulk / ballast mound, road it set for the siding at all times unless a movement to/from the stabling yard is taking place thus removing the chance of a rollaway / SPAD move making it to the main.

BG
  Lockie91 Train Controller

That small siding at Calder Park in actually the turn out for the third track to Watergardens to built as part of Stage 2 of the Calder Park Light Maintance Facility.

This will enable shorts to be shunted to and from Watergardens without using the mainline. It will remain as is until at least 2024 when completion of MM1 nears closer.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
That small siding at Calder Park in actually the turn out for the third track to Watergardens to built as part of Stage 2 of the Calder Park Light Maintance Facility.

This will enable shorts to be shunted to and from Watergardens without using the mainline. It will remain as is until at least 2024 when completion of MM1 nears closer.
Lockie91
Thanks Lockie, great info. I sit corrected!

Speaking of Calder though there appears to be heaps of concretes and other stuff being piled up along the fence away from the main line, I was wondering if they were going to expand it already or if these are loaded onto Metro works trains there.

BG
  Lockie91 Train Controller

BG,

I believe that is all METRO maintenance and renewals. Track tampers and other equipment is usually stored there as there is serval vacant roads and land.

Stage 2 is part of the “Wider Network Enhancements” package of works. I wouldnt expect to see any work happening here until PED is filling up and they need to start storing HCMT’s this side of the river.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
BG,

I believe that is all METRO maintenance and renewals. Track tampers and other equipment is usually stored there as there is serval vacant roads and land.

Stage 2 is part of the “Wider Network Enhancements” package of works. I wouldnt expect to see any work happening here until PED is filling up and they need to start storing HCMT’s this side of the river.
Lockie91
Thanks Lockie.

Does the cleanup work and re-sleepering under and around the LX removal site at Melton Highway have anything to do with the planned works?

Is there a wholesale re-jig of Watergardens planned as part of the third track?

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Perhaps inappropriate place for this but I honestly have no idea what it's related to.

There's a short stub siding accessed by reversing off the Down line about 500m in the down direction from Albion Junction (edit: down direction along the Sunbury line, to clarify). It's fairly recent but I couldn't say how long ago it went in (full concrete, LED dwarf). It's really short - too short for track machines, I would have thought. What gives?
  Lockie91 Train Controller

@BG

There is just clean up to be done as part of the Melton Highway LXR. Spoil has been marked for collection.

As for WGS itself, I believe that the current stabling is going to make way for the reconfigured track lay out. Additional room was left when the road bridge was built to accomodate the additional track. If I remember correctly up to 15 roads will be built at Calder Park which is 1 - 2 minutes from WGS. So I can’t see a need for 2 roads at WGS. As it is still a bit off no plans have yet been released showing how it will all work.

@PIMM
Wasn’t this left over from RRL? A reminder of the cuts by the then Liberla Government.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Is there somewhere I can read about this third track in more detail because I was completely unaware that this is happening?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Perhaps inappropriate place for this but I honestly have no idea what it's related to.

There's a short stub siding accessed by reversing off the Down line about 500m in the down direction from Albion Junction (edit: down direction along the Sunbury line, to clarify). It's fairly recent but I couldn't say how long ago it went in (full concrete, LED dwarf). It's really short - too short for track machines, I would have thought. What gives?
potatoinmymouth
Hi PIMM, as per Lockie's reply above I thought that track was where the Down Bendigo RRL flyover track was supposed to connect to the Down Sunbury main before the project was scaled back.

Which brings me neatly to my favourite topic, where can I find a copy of the original RRL design!!!!!!! All of the plans appear to have been removed from the webiverse.

BG
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Perhaps inappropriate place for this but I honestly have no idea what it's related to.

There's a short stub siding accessed by reversing off the Down line about 500m in the down direction from Albion Junction (edit: down direction along the Sunbury line, to clarify). It's fairly recent but I couldn't say how long ago it went in (full concrete, LED dwarf). It's really short - too short for track machines, I would have thought. What gives?
Hi PIMM, as per Lockie's reply above I thought that track was where the Down Bendigo RRL flyover track was supposed to connect to the Down Sunbury main before the project was scaled back.

Which brings me neatly to my favourite topic, where can I find a copy of the original RRL design!!!!!!! All of the plans appear to have been removed from the webiverse.

BG
BrentonGolding
i travel regularly past that location and there are track machines parked on this siding quite often . at least 2 can park there with space left over .It when at the time of the RRL construction works around Sunshine and the the removal of the two Anderson Road Level crossings.
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville

BG
BrentonGolding
BG, if you're looking for a web page that is no longer 'live' you can try Wayback Machine. I did a quick hunt and came up with a number of results, one of which is this:

Wayback RRL

This is one of the search results from regionalraillink.vic.gov.au dated January 2017. There are results dating from 2008 onward. There are also search results for rrl.com.au covering the years 2003 to 2008. RRL.com.au will probably give you what you're looking for.
Although it is less likely to be relevant there are also search results for vline.com.au from 2003 to last year that I saw.


Neil
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/next-step-for-victorias-bigger-better-trains/

Only item of any interest in this rather behind-the-times press release is that the language regarding service entry has now been pushed back to "mid-2019" instead of "early 2019".

edit: What an exceptional find that rrl.com.au domain is Neil! It's not actually the Regional Rail Link as we know it today but rather the Regional Rail Link consortium which delivered the Bendigo (ahem) and LaTrobe RFR upgrades. A wealth of historical information there.
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
Based solely on publicly available photographs & videos, (which means that my count is probably an under-estimate), delivery of the basic HCMT car shells for the first train (E001 - reference taken from VicSig) were all on site at Newport by July 11.
E002 (train 2) had all cars delivered by September 2; E003 by October 9 and E004 by October 27 with the first cars of E005 on site by that date.
With the interest in E001 being assembled as a train and then moved to East Pakenham photographers have given the production deliveries to Newport less attention. That's made it a bit harder to determine what further deliveries have been made but based on the above delivery rate E005 should have all of its cars at Newport now with most of E006 cars delivered as well, if not all on site too.
If anyone has better info, I for one, would appreciate it being posted here.

Neil
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

You must be joking, prioritising the Ringwood line over the Frankston and Mernda lines. The Ringwood line is the least crowded in Melbourne. It also has the lowest projections of future growth because it's stacked with old money councils who are doing everything in their power to reduce high-density development.

It's also taken 3 years to do platform extensions on the Dandenong corridor and they haven't even touched the Sunbury side of the equation. Say we can get all your dreamland platform extensions done in another 3 years from 2019 - it's 2022, nearly all the first order HCMTs are in service and a vast number of Comeng/Siemens sets have been cascaded to other lines, meaning stock shortages will be the most minor of concerns.

Not to mention it's probably not technically feasible to add extra cars to XTrap sets without serious modifications, at which point you've wasted your time and might as well be building new stock anyway.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
You must be joking, prioritising the Ringwood line over the Frankston and Mernda lines. The Ringwood line is the least crowded in Melbourne. It also has the lowest projections of future growth because it's stacked with old money councils who are doing everything in their power to reduce high-density development.

It's also taken 3 years to do platform extensions on the Dandenong corridor and they haven't even touched the Sunbury side of the equation. Say we can get all your dreamland platform extensions done in another 3 years from 2019 - it's 2022, nearly all the first order HCMTs are in service and a vast number of Comeng/Siemens sets have been cascaded to other lines, meaning stock shortages will be the most minor of concerns.

Not to mention it's probably not technically feasible to add extra cars to XTrap sets without serious modifications, at which point you've wasted your time and might as well be building new stock anyway.
potatoinmymouth
not to mention,

the longer X'trap 8 car trains wouldn't fit in the City Loop platforms. End of this silly story I hope.

cheers
John
  thekingoffoxes Chief Train Controller
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
Thanks, thekingoffoxes
Interesting to see that the first crossover has been "dissembled" with the removal of one rail.

The other interesting point is the 9001 HCMT set is longer than the (auxilliary) shed.
(I am not sure what that shed is for, can't find the map wongm sent to me. )

I am referring to current arrangements in other maintenance sheds where 3 car sets can be lifted and inspected.
What would be the working arrangements for 7 car HCMT sets, since they appear to be much longer than the two sheds at Pakenham East?
  loopy Locomotive Driver

We've been waiting since April 2017, but now the unofficial junction has become official [the new Cranbourne one down from Dandenong]!!!
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Quick question - Why don’t the new trains have the central driving position like the X’Trapolis ?
  drunkill Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quick question - Why don’t the new trains have the central driving position like the X’Trapolis ?
ptvcommuter
Whats the point? Waste of space and money.

These trains won't be split up for 3 car runs.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Quick question - Why don’t the new trains have the central driving position like the X’Trapolis ?
Whats the point? Waste of space and money.

These trains won't be split up for 3 car runs.
drunkill
Wrong central position, rewording the question is; why isn't drivers seat in the middle of the cab like the X'trap? Then again isn't the VLocity drivers seat also centered but slightly offset?
  ptvcommuter Train Controller


So with future population growth we can look at which lines will need high capacity trains for the future projected load and who needs then now


We can see the lines that will need HCMTs based on this growth and patronage data are the Mernda, Werribee, Cragieburn and Sandringham.


The first two, Mernda and Werribee will eventually run via Metro 2 and there will be a branch to Wollert so that takes care of itself. The Cragieburn Line is the most overcrowded and is growing so it needs HCMTs as well.

Based on statistics

Mernda (proportion of overcrowded services is 46%, will keep going up)
Werribee (proportion of overcrowd services is 47%, will keep going up)
Cragieburn (proportion of overcrowded services is 63%, that will keep going up)
Sandringham (proportion of overcrowded services is 47%)

Two of those lines Sandringham and Cragieburn have had little or no extra services added in quite a few years. This can address the issue and it will in the short term, look at the Frankston Line and the success with 10 Minute turn up and go. However, Peak Hour is crammed and even off peak is crowded on these lines above.


Projected growth:

Pakenham, Sunbury and Cranbourne are getting the HCMTs, possibly Melton as well. We know about Mernda and the growth up there, we know about Werribee and the massive growth in that corridor.

If you look at annual patronage growth the Sandringham and Upfield Lines have the highest, excluding the Metro Tunnel candidates. The latter will obviously get extra services once Duplication and capacity opens up.


So next in line for HCMTs

- Cragieburn
- Werribee and Mernda (Metro 2 perhaps)
- Sandringham (and I can’t believe in saying that)
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Any news on the HCMTs? I haven't really heard about them in ages. They must be near proper testing by now.

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