In virtually every case, young people only think of the destination as quickly as possible and cannot comprehend that the journey is sometimes even better than the destination, so they don't really factor into the traveller demographic.

...
The tired old XPT, combined with cheap airfares has killed off interstate bus travel between Melbourne & Sydney and the same could occur between Melbourne and Adelaide, provided a timely daily rail service is implemented. There are MORE pax travelling the full journey between Melbourne and Sydney than most 'pagers realise.

When an argument depends on the customer being wrong, it's probably a good time to retire it.  

Out of curiosity, what is the joy of the journey in the Overland?  It's nice as it goes through the Adelaide hills, and there's a brief bit of excitement at Murray Bridge, but otherwise?  

Have a read...

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/michael-mcguire-there-was-no-particular-reason-we-had-to-be-in-melbourne-it-wasnt-the-destination-but-the-journey/news-story/172846f95c0172ba6f4d864df72c8602

Have a read...

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/michael-mcguire-there-was-no-particular-reason-we-had-to-be-in-melbourne-it-wasnt-the-destination-but-the-journey/news-story/172846f95c0172ba6f4d864df72c8602

Interesting article, Mike and certainly shows, that people can view an argument, from either direction.

It’s probably worth pointing out The Overland doesn’t just take South Australians to Melbourne. It also brings Victorians to Adelaide. And given the focus on tourism, this has to be a good idea.

In fact, if one of the complaints about The Overland is it doesn’t have enough patronage, perhaps more resources directed towards advertising and promotion would be a better idea than killing the thing.

There is also the suspicion that we haven’t learnt anything from ripping up the city’s tram tracks all those years ago. Look how difficult it is to replace what has been taken away.

Hopefully, the State Government changes its mind. Hopefully, it will see a bigger picture here.

It would be a shame if The Overland only existed in our memories, no matter how much pleasure those memories bring.


Which way the pendulum will swing............. time will tell.

BigShunter.

Fine...don't use the train. Many others who wish to travel in either direction each week do...

If bookings had been consistent and steady and the people here complaining about its closure had actually used it then it wouldn't be closing. This includes you.

EDIT: Not you, Big Shunter, I know that you've been a regular user. But frankly if it had been used by the general public and/or tourists on both sides of the border then we wouldn't be here discussing its immanent demise.

Sorry SA guys you just don't get it...

Well we're the people who are the potential users of the service and all of us (pretty much) have decided not to use it. That in itself says volumes about the impracticality and inconvenience. Eighty-two passengers per train, that's not even two full buses.

If you're all gung-ho on saving it then when was the last time you used it, Mike? End-to-end, not just for a jaunt out to Ararat.

NB: Actually the bus does have disabled access, someone in a wheelchair was on a service I used last year and it was interesting to see the hydraulic lift mechanism in use on the side of the bus.

As I have no friends or relatives in Adelaide, my visits there are infrequent. Nevertheless, earlier this year I arrived in Adelaide in January by ship and before then myself and two friends travelled from Ballan to Ararat to Adelaide three years ago.

So I feel a degree of qualification in commenting on the train and its service which clearly is a lot more than some of the armchair commentators in this forum.

The hydraulic lift of the bus may look 'interesting to see', however access to the toilet facility is non existent which is a BIG barrier to more people using the bus for a long journey combined with the possibility of extreme embarrassment and humiliation.
But the economists and naysayers in this forum are so well qualified to comment and represent the needs of people with disabilities AND I imagine would quietly suggest they be banished behind closed doors instead of being encouraged to explore their freedom of mobility which is something that in Victoria as the most progressive state in the nation is encouraged.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/victoria-the-progressive-state-we-like-to-think-so-20181130-p50jea.html

Mike.

.....Nevertheless, earlier this year I arrived in Adelaide in January by ship.... Mike.

That sounds like a story in it's own right!

Have a read...

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/michael-mcguire-there-was-no-particular-reason-we-had-to-be-in-melbourne-it-wasnt-the-destination-but-the-journey/news-story/172846f95c0172ba6f4d864df72c8602

Interesting article, Mike and certainly shows, that people can view an argument, from either direction.

It’s probably worth pointing out The Overland doesn’t just take South Australians to Melbourne. It also brings Victorians to Adelaide. And given the focus on tourism, this has to be a good idea.

In fact, if one of the complaints about The Overland is it doesn’t have enough patronage, perhaps more resources directed towards advertising and promotion would be a better idea than killing the thing.

There is also the suspicion that we haven’t learnt anything from ripping up the city’s tram tracks all those years ago. Look how difficult it is to replace what has been taken away.

Hopefully, the State Government changes its mind. Hopefully, it will see a bigger picture here.

It would be a shame if The Overland only existed in our memories, no matter how much pleasure those memories bring.


Which way the pendulum will swing............. time will tell.

BigShunter.

I'd use it if not for the ridiculous 'get here an hour before' BS

As I have no friends or relatives in Adelaide, my visits there are infrequent. Nevertheless, earlier this year I arrived in Adelaide in January by ship and before then myself and two friends travelled from Ballan to Ararat to Adelaide three years ago.

So I feel a degree of qualification in commenting on the train and its service which clearly is a lot more than some of the armchair commentators in this forum.

SO how many times in the last (say) five years - twice? You're quite strongly opinionated about the retention of a train service you'd never use.

The hydraulic lift of the bus may look 'interesting to see', however access to the toilet facility is non existent which is a BIG barrier to more people using the bus for a long journey combined with the possibility of extreme embarrassment and humiliation. But the economists and naysayers in this forum are so well qualified to comment and represent the needs of people with disabilities AND I imagine would quietly suggest they be banished behind closed doors instead of being encouraged to explore their freedom of mobility which is something that in Victoria as the most progressive state in the nation is encouraged. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/victoria-the-progressive-state-we-like-to-think-so-20181130-p50jea.html Mike.

I'm glad that you're concerned for the rights of the people on a train service you'd never actually use yourself.

https://www.murrayvalleystandard.com.au/story/5799458/opposition-fights-to-save-overland-train-service/

worth a read...

Well, the Vics have stepped up to the plate.

https://www.murrayvalleystandard.com.au/story/5799458/opposition-fights-to-save-overland-train-service/

worth a read...

Not worth, the read, Heath, hot air, where was all the support and ideas, for the last 16 years.

BigShunter.

Well, the Vics have stepped up to the plate.

What an eminently sensible outcome considering the small amount of money. This way they can keep continuity of service for Western Vic pas while hopefully coming up with a better alternative.

BG

The hydraulic lift of the bus may look 'interesting to see', however access to the toilet facility is non existent which is a BIG barrier to more people using the bus for a long journey combined with the possibility of extreme embarrassment and humiliation. But the economists and naysayers in this forum are so well qualified to comment and represent the needs of people with disabilities AND I imagine would quietly suggest they be banished behind closed doors instead of being encouraged to explore their freedom of mobility which is something that in Victoria as the most progressive state in the nation is encouraged. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/victoria-the-progressive-state-we-like-to-think-so-20181130-p50jea.html Mike.

I'm glad that you're concerned for the rights of the people on a train service you'd never actually use yourself.

The mean-spiritedness of some of the SA posters regarding this subject is simply astounding.

Rather than support upgrading the train to a more frequent service and suggesting accelerating the timetable through the introduction of better power to weight rolling stock that WILL accelerate the schedule, our SA friends gleefully suggest cancelling the train altogether and catch a bus, drive or fly instead.

The bus will never serve all its potential customers as I have highlighted in this thread and the train is simply the only answer by the people who want to use it who actually do 'get it', about why the train can potentially be a big winner and operate successfully in its own right.

I'm glad I wrote a lengthy letter to the new Minister for PT and I can feel a degree of vindication in my, I think well structured and supportive piece to her that hopefully the service will be restored after a root and branch review.

It's the same mean-spiritidness of the former Guy Liberal Opposition that got them so comprehensively clobbered after the recent Victorian election. Their opposition to the safe injecting facility, the undertones of homophobia in schools, suggestions of a coal power generator and the hijacking of the Liberal party Opposition by the religious right remind me of the same mean-spiritness of the current Marshall conservative administration in SA.

Fortunately, the Dan Andrews government in Victoria, despite its very strong 20+ seat majority will keep the train in operation DESPITE it operating through two electorates it doesn't hold, Ripon and Lowan. This is called being inclusive with the west of Victoria who didn't vote for Dan and I'm hopeful the root and branch review will be undertaken with a view to a complete overhaul.

Mike.

The mean-spiritedness of some of the SA posters regarding this subject is simply astounding.

So to summarise your position, you have used it extremely infrequently, you don't plan to use it regularly in the future but you're saying that it should be retained with SA taxpayer money any despite the fact that the potential audience has clearly voted with its feet. And you think we're being "mean" because we're not sorry that it's going after dying a slow death since the nineties, whittled down to a pointless twice-weekly return that doesn't even run over Xmas?

If its retained by some miracle it'll just be another two years of a train that a tiny number of people use (one and-a-half buses) running twice a week again until the decision is hand-balled to yet another crop of politicians. And you still won't use it, Mike, and neither will I or most of the other posters here.

Rather than support upgrading the train to a more frequent service and suggesting accelerating the timetable through the introduction of better power to weight rolling stock that WILL accelerate the schedule...

You'd be looking at hundreds of millions before you'd get it to a point where it could compete effectively with the other modes of transport; for all the reasons that we've already discussed. And the Commonwealth owns the track so you'd have to get them on board as well.

...our SA friends gleefully suggest cancelling the train altogether and catch a bus, drive or fly instead.

Because GSR and their government sponsors ran it down to a point where it's impractical for everyone but the most hardy and determined user and the SA public has responded accordingly.

https://www.murrayvalleystandard.com.au/story/5799458/opposition-fights-to-save-overland-train-service/

worth a read...

Never believe what gets put into a paper or broadcast either on radio or TV. Most of it is just media tripe at the best of times and most probably the reporter has never left the nice air conditioned office they work in now either except to go home or come to work.

To be honest you would have to be a right fool to believe any thing any media says.

The mean-spiritedness of some of the SA posters regarding this subject is simply astounding.

So to summarise your position, you have used it extremely infrequently, you don't plan to use it regularly in the future but you're saying that it should be retained with SA taxpayer money any despite the fact that the potential audience has clearly voted with its feet. And you think we're being "mean" because we're not sorry that it's going after dying a slow death since the nineties, whittled down to a pointless twice-weekly return that doesn't even run over Xmas?

If its retained by some miracle it'll just be another two years of a train that a tiny number of people use (one and-a-half buses) running twice a week again until the decision is hand-balled to yet another crop of politicians. And you still won't use it, Mike, and neither will I or most of the other posters here.

Well we in South Australia will now be saying the same of Victorians when at the next election maybe a new party gets into power and they too cancel the money for it, as it will all fall on Victorian shoulders then and SA Govt will simply say it has got nothing what so ever to do with us now. Something to think about while you gloat over the Vic Govt saving it. It is now for all intents and purposes a Victorian train with all it's problems. Good luck with that in the future. See we South Australians are not as dumb as you think we are.  

Hello All,

1 / GSR have been receiving a hefty subsidy to reluctantly provide a miserable service between Adelaide and Melbourne for years now ; combined with GSR's on going efforts to make the purchase of tickets difficult , so it is not surprising  that the SA Government is desirous of stopping the subsidy due to recalcitrant and poor service provision by GSR.

2 / In my view V/Line and the SA Govt should come to some arrangement to provide at least an every second day service in each direction that would link Western Victoria with both Adelaide and Melbourne .

3 / I personally think an everyday service is preferable, and I think such service provision would be utilized due to its frequency , which is currently lacking.

4 / I readily concede that the current service is poorly patronised , but the two trains week schedule is designed to be poorly patronised , and it is !

5 / as V/Line's improved  regional services has consistently demonstrated , frequency and regularity gains passengers , and the daily, or even every second day services, a revamped Overland service will do so as passengers generally prefer long distance trains to buses / coaches.

6 / there are many communities in both western Victoria and eastern SA that would use a decent , passenger friendly service, something GSR clearly do not want to provide ( though they will still take any money offered ! ).

Regards, Radioman.

Hello All,

5 / as V/Line's improved  regional services has consistently demonstrated , frequency and regularity gains passengers , and the daily, or even every second day services, a revamped Overland service will do so as passengers generally prefer long distance trains to buses / coaches.


Regards, Radioman.

But still no commuter service to Clunes

My understanding is that the Victorian government's largesse only extends the service for another six months...........at least for now.

Hello All,

1 / GSR have been receiving a hefty subsidy to reluctantly provide a miserable service between Adelaide and Melbourne for years now ; combined with GSR's on going efforts to make the purchase of tickets difficult , so it is not surprising  that the SA Government is desirous of stopping the subsidy due to recalcitrant and poor service provision by GSR.

2 / In my view V/Line and the SA Govt should come to some arrangement to provide at least an every second day service in each direction that would link Western Victoria with both Adelaide and Melbourne .

3 / I personally think an everyday service is preferable, and I think such service provision would be utilized due to its frequency , which is currently lacking.

4 / I readily concede that the current service is poorly patronised , but the two trains week schedule is designed to be poorly patronised , and it is !

5 / as V/Line's improved  regional services has consistently demonstrated , frequency and regularity gains passengers , and the daily, or even every second day services, a revamped Overland service will do so as passengers generally prefer long distance trains to buses / coaches.

6 / there are many communities in both western Victoria and eastern SA that would use a decent , passenger friendly service, something GSR clearly do not want to provide ( though they will still take any money offered ! ).

Regards, Radioman.

If a daily service to the likes of Sawn Hill, Eucha, Moree/Armidale and Dubbo can get the numbers, yes a daily service between two cities of combined population of 4-5m should also survive if of the same standard.

Hello All,

1 / GSR have been receiving a hefty subsidy to reluctantly provide a miserable service between Adelaide and Melbourne for years now ; combined with GSR's on going efforts to make the purchase of tickets difficult , so it is not surprising  that the SA Government is desirous of stopping the subsidy due to recalcitrant and poor service provision by GSR.

2 / In my view V/Line and the SA Govt should come to some arrangement to provide at least an every second day service in each direction that would link Western Victoria with both Adelaide and Melbourne .

3 / I personally think an everyday service is preferable, and I think such service provision would be utilized due to its frequency , which is currently lacking.

4 / I readily concede that the current service is poorly patronised , but the two trains week schedule is designed to be poorly patronised , and it is !

5 / as V/Line's improved  regional services has consistently demonstrated , frequency and regularity gains passengers , and the daily, or even every second day services, a revamped Overland service will do so as passengers generally prefer long distance trains to buses / coaches.

6 / there are many communities in both western Victoria and eastern SA that would use a decent , passenger friendly service, something GSR clearly do not want to provide ( though they will still take any money offered ! ).

Regards, Radioman.

If a daily service to the likes of Sawn Hill, Eucha, Moree/Armidale and Dubbo can get the numbers, yes a daily service between two cities of combined population of 4-5m should also survive if of the same standard.

Conveniently forgetting to factor in the relative frequency and cost of air services on those corridors

So much fairy dust in this thread.

Like the Overland, methinks it is time to wrap up this thread

Like the Overland, methinks it is time to wrap up this thread

The Overland is a work in progress...as is this thread.

Like the Overland, methinks it is time to wrap up this thread

The Overland is a work in progress...as is this thread.

This parrot is no more. It's a stiff. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

Like the Overland, methinks it is time to wrap up this thread

The Overland is a work in progress...as is this thread.

This parrot is no more. It's a stiff. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch...

FAR from it.

Thanks to the progressive and PT friendly Andrews Labor government this subject will continue for quite a while yet while we Victorians investigate ways of improving and supplementing the service.

Maybe you'll have to put up barriers so it can't arrive/depart Keswick

Mike.

According to the VLine timetables there are several buses daily from Horsham, the largest centre in Western Victoria, to Melbourne.

A couple run right through; the others require a change to train at Ararat or Ballarat.

ALL of these services are advertised as "Accessible".

There are 2 train services a week, neither of which is accessible.

If a person requires medical attention in the capital city or large regional centre like Ballarat or Geelong, then they are far better off with a door to door car or mini-bus transfer service.   Such services exist in both South Australia and Victoria and are subsidised so the cost to the patient is minimal and certainly less than the bus or train fare.    If a day return can be organised then the cost of a hotel is removed as well.

There are many solutions to the array of scenarios arising in providing a public transport service, including the most expensive, rail.