Why Australia's power prices are going up?

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
We had some stupidly high feed-in tariffs in SA thanks to the desire to banish the carbon fairy - if you signed up before 30/9/2011 you were able to get 44 cents an hour and you were able to lock that in until 2028; it then went down to 16 cents which lasted till 2016.
don_dunstan
$440/MWh, and some how people think this is ok?

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
My 10.6 KWhr feed in is available to all in Queensland on the standard AGL tariff. If you want to pay more for your imported power AGL will give you 20C a KWhr. There are people spending Over $30,000 on batteries that will not run their bedroom airconditioners all night. They will never get their money back. If your conscience demands you do all you can to lessen global warming then do it, but don't pass batteries off as a good investment or a way of lessening power costs. Maybe in the future it will be, but not now.
Peak power in the evening is not caused by washing machines, but people trying to cook their evening meal contributes. I would not want them to be unfairly impacted.
Too much emotion in this subject, and the desperates on both extremes peddling half truths is not helping.
neillfarmer
I never said it was because of washing machines, I said if the domestic market was fully exposed to the peak costs of producing electricity which often exceeds $150 to 250/MWh for 1-2h and usually sourced from the least efficient means of generating electricity and this often equals the more carbon intensive sources. Then maybe people would think twice about using more optional or optional loads such as washing machines or at least use it more cautiously. To help clarify this further, Pool pumps, demand hot water, AC's/heaters, clothes driers, charging EV's etc. And yes potentially changing dinner habits if they knew that roast was being cooked at a $1 or more an hour.

No not all will change, but it doesn't take much to reduce the peak does it?
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

My 10.6 KWhr feed in is available to all in Queensland on the standard AGL tariff. If you want to pay more for your imported power AGL will give you 20C a KWhr. There are people spending Over $30,000 on batteries that will not run their bedroom airconditioners all night. They will never get their money back. If your conscience demands you do all you can to lessen global warming then do it, but don't pass batteries off as a good investment or a way of lessening power costs. Maybe in the future it will be, but not now.
Peak power in the evening is not caused by washing machines, but people trying to cook their evening meal contributes. I would not want them to be unfairly impacted.
Too much emotion in this subject, and the desperates on both extremes peddling half truths is not helping.
I never said it was because of washing machines, I said if the domestic market was fully exposed to the peak costs of producing electricity which often exceeds $150 to 250/MWh for 1-2h and usually sourced from the least efficient means of generating electricity and this often equals the more carbon intensive sources. Then maybe people would think twice about using more optional or optional loads such as washing machines or at least use it more cautiously. To help clarify this further, Pool pumps, demand hot water, AC's/heaters, clothes driers, charging EV's etc. And yes potentially changing dinner habits if they knew that roast was being cooked at a $1 or more an hour.

No not all will change, but it doesn't take much to reduce the peak does it?
RTT_Rules
Asking my mother to change would  be a damn miracle. One day here a while back on a day of 40 almost she cooked a roast tea and I jokingly said to her turn off the oven and place it outside on the concrete as it would cook much faster. She also at night turns on nearly every light in the house and then complains about her electricity being high, but it is my computer she says that uses all the electricity.  She washes clothes almost every other day, and even washes my tea mug after every cup of char if I dont keep it with me of course. I use it in the morning and then just use it as it is again at lunchtime and sometimes in the afternoon. She is over 80 but changing her as I said would be a miracle. There are plenty more like her out there though unfortunately.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Yeah but why should people have to turn off air-conditioning or heating during "critical periods"? Surely that's when they're needed the most.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
My 10.6 KWhr feed in is available to all in Queensland on the standard AGL tariff. If you want to pay more for your imported power AGL will give you 20C a KWhr. There are people spending Over $30,000 on batteries that will not run their bedroom airconditioners all night. They will never get their money back. If your conscience demands you do all you can to lessen global warming then do it, but don't pass batteries off as a good investment or a way of lessening power costs. Maybe in the future it will be, but not now.
Peak power in the evening is not caused by washing machines, but people trying to cook their evening meal contributes. I would not want them to be unfairly impacted.
Too much emotion in this subject, and the desperates on both extremes peddling half truths is not helping.
I never said it was because of washing machines, I said if the domestic market was fully exposed to the peak costs of producing electricity which often exceeds $150 to 250/MWh for 1-2h and usually sourced from the least efficient means of generating electricity and this often equals the more carbon intensive sources. Then maybe people would think twice about using more optional or optional loads such as washing machines or at least use it more cautiously. To help clarify this further, Pool pumps, demand hot water, AC's/heaters, clothes driers, charging EV's etc. And yes potentially changing dinner habits if they knew that roast was being cooked at a $1 or more an hour.

No not all will change, but it doesn't take much to reduce the peak does it?
Asking my mother to change would  be a damn miracle. One day here a while back on a day of 40 almost she cooked a roast tea and I jokingly said to her turn off the oven and place it outside on the concrete as it would cook much faster. She also at night turns on nearly every light in the house and then complains about her electricity being high, but it is my computer she says that uses all the electricity.  She washes clothes almost every other day, and even washes my tea mug after every cup of char if I dont keep it with me of course. I use it in the morning and then just use it as it is again at lunchtime and sometimes in the afternoon. She is over 80 but changing her as I said would be a miracle. There are plenty more like her out there though unfortunately.
DJPeters
You give the impression that either she's 80 and you still live at home, or you get her over to do your housework! Shocked
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
You give the impression that either she's 80 and you still live at home, or you get her over to do your housework! Shocked
DirtyBallast
My mother is 88. My younger brother lives with her as her carer. Perhaps David is in the same situation.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
We had some stupidly high feed-in tariffs in SA thanks to the desire to banish the carbon fairy - if you signed up before 30/9/2011 you were able to get 44 cents an hour and you were able to lock that in until 2028; it then went down to 16 cents which lasted till 2016.
$440/MWh, and some how people think this is ok?
RTT_Rules
I didn't and I still think it's ridiculous. And I knew someone here who borrowed money to install a ridiculously large home system expressly to harvest that feed-in tariff that everyone else was paying for.

Long-term it didn't work though, his inverter blew up and he couldn't afford to fix it - very big $$$ once that's gone.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Asking my mother to change would  be a damn miracle. One day here a while back on a day of 40 almost she cooked a roast tea and I jokingly said to her turn off the oven and place it outside on the concrete as it would cook much faster. She also at night turns on nearly every light in the house and then complains about her electricity being high, but it is my computer she says that uses all the electricity.  She washes clothes almost every other day, and even washes my tea mug after every cup of char if I dont keep it with me of course. I use it in the morning and then just use it as it is again at lunchtime and sometimes in the afternoon. She is over 80 but changing her as I said would be a miracle. There are plenty more like her out there though unfortunately.
DJPeters
I know, my grandmother is 101 and until recently lived mostly on her own. With my dad complaining of similar to you.

We can go back in the last 50 years and list a how list of similar "won't change to new technology" for some older people. Computers, ATM's, PT travel cards, mobile phones etc.

Old Age Pensions clearly need to be protected and I think in their cases they should be entitled to am affordable power supply guarantee via the govt (with a number of rules obviously), no need to go through power suppliers to find a contract even a millennial doesn't understand.

For example the house needs to be fitted with LED lights and other energy savers and for that they have a fixed price of power per month.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
We had some stupidly high feed-in tariffs in SA thanks to the desire to banish the carbon fairy - if you signed up before 30/9/2011 you were able to get 44 cents an hour and you were able to lock that in until 2028; it then went down to 16 cents which lasted till 2016.
$440/MWh, and some how people think this is ok?
I didn't and I still think it's ridiculous. And I knew someone here who borrowed money to install a ridiculously large home system expressly to harvest that feed-in tariff that everyone else was paying for.

Long-term it didn't work though, his inverter blew up and he couldn't afford to fix it - very big $$$ once that's gone.
don_dunstan
Feed in Tariff should be linked to the whole sale price to be fair to all.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
We had some stupidly high feed-in tariffs in SA thanks to the desire to banish the carbon fairy - if you signed up before 30/9/2011 you were able to get 44 cents an hour and you were able to lock that in until 2028; it then went down to 16 cents which lasted till 2016.
$440/MWh, and some how people think this is ok?
I didn't and I still think it's ridiculous. And I knew someone here who borrowed money to install a ridiculously large home system expressly to harvest that feed-in tariff that everyone else was paying for.

Long-term it didn't work though, his inverter blew up and he couldn't afford to fix it - very big $$$ once that's gone.
don_dunstan
 That stuff happened so what?

All you do is single out renewables. Getting rid of them would do little to drop energy prices and won't stop prices going up. Most people know that.

http://theconversation.com/the-verdict-is-in-renewables-reduce-energy-prices-yes-even-in-south-australia-108251
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

We had some stupidly high feed-in tariffs in SA thanks to the desire to banish the carbon fairy - if you signed up before 30/9/2011 you were able to get 44 cents an hour and you were able to lock that in until 2028; it then went down to 16 cents which lasted till 2016.
$440/MWh, and some how people think this is ok?
I didn't and I still think it's ridiculous. And I knew someone here who borrowed money to install a ridiculously large home system expressly to harvest that feed-in tariff that everyone else was paying for.

Long-term it didn't work though, his inverter blew up and he couldn't afford to fix it - very big $$$ once that's gone.
don_dunstan
Inverters aren't that expensive to fix unless you don't know what you're talking about and get ripped off.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
That stuff happened so what?

All you do is single out renewables. Getting rid of them would do little to drop energy prices and won't stop prices going up. Most people know that.

http://theconversation.com/the-verdict-is-in-renewables-reduce-energy-prices-yes-even-in-south-australia-108251
Groundrelay
I single them out because they affect the poorest Australians more than anyone. And all I hear in response is "but we're saving the planet from an invisible carbon fairy. The oceans should already be boiling by now, it's nearly 2020..."

Insanity.
Inverters aren't that expensive to fix unless you don't know what you're talking about and get ripped off.
ParkesHub
It's a string inverter and it blew in spectacular fashion, he was quoted $1500+ and he's not a wealthy individual so he's had to leave it for the time being.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
We had some stupidly high feed-in tariffs in SA thanks to the desire to banish the carbon fairy - if you signed up before 30/9/2011 you were able to get 44 cents an hour and you were able to lock that in until 2028; it then went down to 16 cents which lasted till 2016.
$440/MWh, and some how people think this is ok?
I didn't and I still think it's ridiculous. And I knew someone here who borrowed money to install a ridiculously large home system expressly to harvest that feed-in tariff that everyone else was paying for.

Long-term it didn't work though, his inverter blew up and he couldn't afford to fix it - very big $$$ once that's gone.
 That stuff happened so what?

All you do is single out renewables. Getting rid of them would do little to drop energy prices and won't stop prices going up. Most people know that.

http://theconversation.com/the-verdict-is-in-renewables-reduce-energy-prices-yes-even-in-south-australia-108251
Groundrelay
No, the RE's are not solely to blame and we can see this in the USA where their move towards RE has not resulted in raising of wholesale power prices despite not building a coal power station for as long as Oz.

The issue is the RE's have blinded the powers at be, by demonizing coal, setting unrealistic targets, excessive subsidies and transparent energy policy that enables coal, gas or even RE to encourage investment.

1) Coal, yes it makes CO2, but our aging plants and Vic Brown mud isn't exactly ideal and should have been modernised or replaced by now. Thus providing cleaner energy.

The closure of both Northern and Hazellwood with the subsequent skyrocket in power prices and blackouts demonstrates Australia was not ready at the time to have these plants closed.

If you want to build a new coal fired power station, what protection do you have your business won't be in future taxed to oblivion?

2) Gas, yes, Closed Cycle gas is now over 60% and is a cleaner substitute for coal, but who could buy it and if you could the price???? Try and get a longterm gas contract?

3) RE, yes, when the govt throws subsidises on the table stuff gets built but the brains trust don't yet realise solar or wind don't provide 24/7 power and are out there with the dynamite ready to blow up the next coal power station. Its a pointless argument to say Solar is cheaper per MW and produces much less CO2 or CO2 free in generation if you have to pay an inefficient CO2 producing Open Cycle gas turbine to fill in the gaps between solar and wind on high gas prices.

And please, do we have to hear one more brain dead comment that solar or wind energy is "free energy"....Prolonged sunburn is not even free!

I look forward (not) to yet again another poster here or elsewhere claiming its not fair the govt is lowering PV solar tariffs, because they think being paid 3-5 x that of the wholesale power price is normal.

ohh, and lets destroy our power sector in their search for a utopian energy source that doesn't work as they propose anywhere else which then off-shores our heavy industry to, you guessed it China, or worse India! Just so they can make the same stuff with equal or more CO2 than Australia using Australian coal with lower taxes than if burned in Oz. But yah, Australia is burning less coal, yah!!!

I have no issue with RE, if its done the right way, to date, it hasn't been the right way. We should have had about 3000 - 4000 MW of coal fired generation capacity replaced in the last 10 years. This alone would have lowered our CO2 foot print and provided a stable reliable power price and supply. RE growth could then focus on replacing some of the aging capacity until such a time its able to replace efficient, cost effective cleaner coal.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
This is Australia, we’re built on uranium and thorium, we might as well use it.

The huge RE investment is not working (and it’s not just us, Germany is screwing itself too), the greatest chance the world has to avoid increased warming is nuclear - it’s just not sensible to suggest otherwise.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
This is Australia, we’re built on uranium and thorium, we might as well use it.

The huge RE investment is not working (and it’s not just us, Germany is screwing itself too), the greatest chance the world has to avoid increased warming is nuclear - it’s just not sensible to suggest otherwise.
Aaron
In your opinion, meanwhile the market begs to differ. A 100 wind turbines being built north of Horsham, 600 billion dollar investment and when you see who the investing partners are, well obviously they no nothing compared to all the qualified experts around here.

http://www.murrawarra-windfarm.com/
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Woops 600 million not 600 billion
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
And please, do we have to hear one more brain dead comment that solar or wind energy is "free energy"....Prolonged sunburn is not even free!
RTT_Rules
Wrong again! It costs nothing to get sunburnt!

The coal sitting in the ground doesn't cost you anything, neither does the sun shining up there. At that point you have a level playing field.

Another cost of mining is restoring the sites and remediation of damage, the history of which isn't exactly great here.

I'd prefer nuclear because the waste volume is far less, you can easily capture and store it which does allow for reprocessing down the track.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
And please, do we have to hear one more brain dead comment that solar or wind energy is "free energy"....Prolonged sunburn is not even free!
Wrong again! It costs nothing to get sunburnt!

The coal sitting in the ground doesn't cost you anything, neither does the sun shining up there. At that point you have a level playing field.

Another cost of mining is restoring the sites and remediation of damage, the history of which isn't exactly great here.

I'd prefer nuclear because the waste volume is far less, you can easily capture and store it which does allow for reprocessing down the track.
Groundrelay
incorrect, so give up on the wrong again comments.

As someone who is highly sensitive to the sun, sunburn costs! Its costs to prevent, it costs when you are burnt and repeated sunburn costs in aging and likely cancer, which was my point.

Every form of energy costs money to harvest.

Remediation is part of the cost of coal extraction, yes years ago WE let them do SWFA in clean up. Today WE don't. They pay a bond and generally leave as they found it. One mine I worked for (not coal) actually left the pasture with a higher rate of grazing productivity due improvement of the very poor original top soil.

However, the benefit for mining coal, gas and Uranium is that it has a very high energy density, solar does not. Rather solar requires large amounts of land, 100 x or more than coal mining to be covered in solar panels for same output and of course the materials in the solar panels needed to be mined in the first place. Ironically, some of the pumped hydro sites being investigated are ex open cut coal mines. Again the hydro output from these used pits is a fraction of the coal energy output.

It you want to reduce CO2 emissions, nuclear is the most viable option.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This is Australia, we’re built on uranium and thorium, we might as well use it.

The huge RE investment is not working (and it’s not just us, Germany is screwing itself too), the greatest chance the world has to avoid increased warming is nuclear - it’s just not sensible to suggest otherwise.
In your opinion, meanwhile the market begs to differ. A 100 wind turbines being built north of Horsham, 600 billion dollar investment and when you see who the investing partners are, well obviously they no nothing compared to all the qualified experts around here.

http://www.murrawarra-windfarm.com/
wobert
An nice, but still intermittent power source.  

Follow the trends on here and you will see the combined wind out range from less than 300 MW to 2500 MW for the entire east coast grid. Solar provides some averaging, but still the gap is being made up from coal and open cycle gas, both as CO2 emitting as each other, later just costs alot more.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/opennem-widget/
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Inverters aren't that expensive to fix unless you don't know what you're talking about and get ripped off.
It's a string inverter and it blew in spectacular fashion, he was quoted $1500+ and he's not a wealthy individual so he's had to leave it for the time being.
don_dunstan
Send it to me. I've been repairing power electronics for years. The so-called experts bamboozle Joe Public with all kinds of waffle. Intentionally so.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

This is Australia, we’re built on uranium and thorium, we might as well use it.

The huge RE investment is not working (and it’s not just us, Germany is screwing itself too), the greatest chance the world has to avoid increased warming is nuclear - it’s just not sensible to suggest otherwise.
Aaron
Actually thorium is the way to go. Impossible to get out of control.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Well now that you mention the remediation costs, one the favorite tricks of the miners, especially in Queensland, is to pay the bond, then when the remediation costs are more than the bond is worth(usually by a factor of about ten) bankrupt the $2  company and leave the tab to the taxpayer.Another subsidy.

As for what renewables are producing today, how many times do you have be told that we are 5 to 10 years in on a 20 to 30 year transition to total renewable energy. Gas is supposed to be our main fossil fuel used in the transition, but through poor political leadership and policy direction, especially on the conservative side of politics (Abbott gets a gold medal for wrecking) we've allowed the great gas gouge to  to completely sabotage us for years.(Extremely high power prices, especially for industry) As it is,since the Feds have abrogated any responsibility for direction and policy,the various States are going it alone,which unfortunately does not lead to a cohesive policy nationally.

To expect this transition to happen by Monday week is , well, just  plain frucking ignorant. Remember we were waffling on a month or so ago about the brick phone, but as usual some here will not learn the lesson, look at the advancement in battery technology in the last 5 years. Absolutely amazing. Putting a battery on your house, though not quite economic yet, with the Andrews Gov subsidy in Victoria  might well make it so,kick starting a revolution,more batteries sold, more development of the technology equals lower cost.Look at the uptake of roof top solar with government subsidies to get it kick started. 10 years ago a 5 k/w system cost 20 grand or more, now you can get one for about a third of that.

Reminds me of when Plasma tv's came out,20 grand,got mine 3 or 4 years later for  7 grand, now you can buy an LCD or whatever, half as big again for a couple of grand. In 1908 the Wright Bros. took the first flight, in  1969 we  landed on the moon, by 2014 we had rovers on Mars and if you think we cant transition from coal power to something better  in the next few decades, probably with the aid of technology that we haven't even thought of yet, your  either willfully  ignorant  and will not learn the lessons of history or just like the sound of your own voice.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Well now..........etc etc
wobert
Reality check

Mining,
You are mostly referring to practices of old and generally small scale operations. It wasn't until the early to late 90's depending on your state that the days of "mine at all costs" was no longer supported by the Voting public and things began to change. I was in Tassie at the time and worked in the Heavy industry and later mining sector and I believe the ministerial exceptions to pollute and mining clean up all ceased around 1994.

Miners pay a Remediation bond, its not a guarantee and would destroy the mining sector if it was. The value of the bond varies over the life of the mine based on the work done by the miner to minimise the clear up costs at the end. Meanwhile the bond is held by the govt and invested and hence for the life of the mine the govt basically has dividends from that investment. The mine I worked at in Qld had its bond reduced after undertaking significant mid life remediation. Again the mine started before most of this was required. Operating without sufficient funds to undertake remediation is also likely operating while insolvent and I assume carries all the penalties for the directors that usually apply. Overall the bulk of the mining is undertaken by large scale multi-nationals who now are more focused than in the past. Again its not what they do, its WHAT WE VOTE TO ALLOW THEM TO DO. ie community expectations.

RE
How many times do you need to be told about the reality?

- Northern Power shutdown and SA wholesale power prices nearly doubled since. Impact on National Market not significant, due to limited impact out side SA
- Hazellwood shutdown and Vic wholesale power prices doubled since, along with NSW and Qld due to the National Market

https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#average-price-table

Transition is fine, but it must be a transition, not abandonment without a Plan B. Unlike much of our northern hemisphere cousins and NZ, Aust lacks large scale hydro capacity outside Tas and Snowy. The inter-tie to Tassie is of limited size and basically half that of one coal fired turbine, so its impact on the mainland grid like SA is limited and the so called justification for its cost by buying cheap power and selling peak power is marginal at best and why a 2nd cable will be hard to justify although technically required.

In short Australia was forced down this ideological path with its eyes shut and ignored the technical limitations of RE as it applied to Australia.

Until 2008, the feds had very little to do with electricity as it was mostly run by the states. Then it started with the push towards a National Grid and market (in itself not a bad thing) and then later CO2 tax. Had the feds stayed out of the sector, things maybe very different today. Yes Abbott stopped the madness push into RE, but he didn't provide the alternative and very much part of the problem, but not the source of the problem and likely didn't have time to fully correct and MT didn't do much better in his time. But again why where we were there in the first place? Had the states continued with their plans to build replacement coal fired power stations, we wouldn't have aging coal fired power stations and half arsed RE replacements including high cost open cycle gas turbines being the back bone of the East Cost Power supply.

Remember Qld has not shut down coal power stations, rather they are now running at much higher capacity than ever before and the state is raking in billions a year in profits from selling power to the power deficit states who have blindsided their voters that they are shutting down their coal power sector, yah!!! Thanks to the much larger inter tie to NSW built in the 2000's, Qld govt is now ripping off its own voters and industry with double the price wholesale power costs, thanks to the idiots in the south. Meanwhile the state Premier craps on about how they plan to push for RE and Green credentials, bank rolling on the profits from the coal fired power sector and selling coal to the Chinese and Indians.

Gas,
Again, this wasn't a fed issue before, the states made it one, namely Qld allowing its CSM gas producers to sell gas it didn't have and in the process rape the east coast gas network and customers of affordable gas.

As you made this political, I'll state now that Qld has had ALP govts since 1998 apart from 3 years under Newman.

Roof Top PV
I totally support the concept, but when this all kicked off in the late 2000's, whole sale power prices were $30-50/MWh, yet most of the state govt subsidised this by buying power at $400 to 600/MWh. Ok, it was a tool to kick start an industry and PV prices were much higher then. But why does it need to continue? As you say, PV solar prices have dropped dramatically? typically 10% YoY. Most of the cost is actually labour to install. Now we are repeating the madness with batteries?

Do I think PV solar with battery will be a key part of the future, yes. But why does it need to be subsidised now?

Transition
The transition starts when there is an alternative, not before and doing with a subsidy is pure madness. You claim the mining sector is subsidised, its checkfeed compared to how much has gone into RE and again we still don't have a feasible solution to the 24/7 issue for which there is 17,000MW of generating capacity that needs to be replaced and when adding EV's to the picture, that pushes this to at least 34,000MW of generating capacity by 2045.

And as for 42" Plasma, in March 2002 I saw the first one marked down from $42,000 to $36,000 in Harvey Norman. In 2008 I paid $1800 and recently paid $900 for latest Samsung 55" TV. Your point that you paid $7000 sums up your whole post. You ventured into a new industry too soon and paid the price, some of waited a bit longer and got better performance at a lower price, in this case it was your wallet that was affected, but in the power sector, now its everyones wallet that is affected.  

Yes, it took 50 years to go from the moon to Mars Rovers and likely another 20 to get humans. It wasn't done overnight and only done once the technology was feasible. The Power Generation Sector is no different. Replace The aging coal capacity (yes Hazellwood had to go) with new coal and then lets move towards a 100% RE grid at a practical pace, not the brain dead approach that is occurring now.

Side comment
Was at a conference recently for Aluminium Production. Since 2005, aluminium production using hydro and nuclear power topped out. The growth is now all gas and mostly coal due to capacity growth in Middle East, India and China. In the aluminium sector alone, China has added 2-3 x the amount of coal power to feed the aluminium sector than the Australian power sector in total. Ironically some of this burning Australian coal. I hope seeing a few wind turbines makes people feel good, because the reality is an eye opener.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Wow      ........... Gordon Bennett
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Wow      ........... Gordon Bennett
wobert
Well, you want to keep misquoting / selective memory!

As I said before, the USA and others have managed to go down the path to RE in a more sensible approach and at same time protect the their power prices.

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