Geelong high speed rail and electrification

 
  Lockie91 Train Controller

@John.z

The big difference is that RRL was designed for 2 track pairs

It is a massive amount of infrastructure to quad the Werribee corridor. Almost every station would need modifications or a complete rebuild to accommodate the track pair. Reconfiguration of serval Road overpasses and the removal of every LX. That before we even get to Newport.

RRL has been designed to accommodate the additional track pair. Which will be built next to exisiting stations. Deer Park and Adeer will need to be rebuilt, that being a good thing. They barley classify as stations as they are now. Modifications to the M80 underpass to remove the LX and the removal of the other two LX.

With work already underway on the Ballarat corridor this is where Geelong services will run now and into the future.

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  Jack Le Lievre Chief Train Controller

Location: Moolap Station, Vic

I wasn't aware of these. Where are they?
reubstar6
There is the Pipeline which runs to/from Viva/Shell, Corio to the various Terminals such as Qenos, Altona, Mobil, Altona, Shell, Newport, Caltex, Newport and the Yarraville Oil Terminal, plus South Dynon and Somerton. The AvGas Line services Avalon, Essendon and Tullamarine from Corio and the Natural Gas Lines which service Geelong and the South-West as well as being able to bring gas from the South-West to the rest of Victoria. The lines take various routes to get to Werribee but use the rail easement between Werribee and Newport, and are all underground, apart from the surface lines which run from Qenos t/from Mobil and to/from Yarraville Oil Terminal.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

IDIOT, nothing services Coldstream Airport let alone McKenzies, tis a long walk along the road to Gruyere.

Would you have preferred me to say Lilydale Airport instead? Aviation is not my forte in the slightest, let alone memorising what airports Melbourne even exist. Coldstream Airport is actually in Coldstream, not Gruyere (the latter is east of Stringybark Creek, at least according to the Melway). "Lilydale" Airport is a misnomer and is nowhere near Lilydale, being opposite what used to be Yering station, which is not too far from the 685 McKenzie's bus. Also, try to keep the term IDIOT reserved for politicians and clueless Melbourne public transport operators. I swear Ventura does a better job at running the Lilydale line than Metro for starters.
Heihachi_73
Coldstream Airport is on Gruyere Rd,  and there is no bus stop within Cooee of the old Yering Sattion.
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
Strange, that there is not a bus stop on the corner of McIntyre Lane and the Melba Highway. Well within cooee of that airport.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Strange, that there is not a bus stop on the corner of McIntyre Lane and the Melba Highway. Well within cooee of that airport.
Rodo
dangerous piece of road there are double white lines and a bad corner. School students do get dropped off/on near this intersection, a bus stop on either side of the road would be good. But there are only three farm houses plus the airfield.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
If you were to Quad to Melton then would you still consider electrification between Deep Park junction (V/Line tracks new build) to Ballarat as a longer term project which would add better and faster services for the Ballarat line?

Fuel prices are continuing to climb northwards at over $1.55 currently.  

If you do the planned Geelong electrification then why not also do beyond Melton right afterwards?
  Lockie91 Train Controller

@x31

I suspect over the next decade we shall slowly see sparking to our regional centres. With the Vlos shifted to longer distance journeys. This is primarily why Geelong is being sparked. You are running a 20 minute DMU service, would be costing V/line a mint. Plus the benefits of electric traction power.

Ballarat will Be next to follow after Geelong as it is the next busiest line. With half the infrastructure already in place from Deer Park.

Just leaves all the questions regarding AC or DC.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Running a full loop through the western suburbs for Metro services would anyone consider electrifying the line between Newport and Sunshine so trains could avoid having to go back through Footscray making Newport and Sunshine and Wyndham Vale key interchanges?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Running a full loop through the western suburbs for Metro services would anyone consider electrifying the line between Newport and Sunshine so trains could avoid having to go back through Footscray making Newport and Sunshine and Wyndham Vale key interchanges?
x31


I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone latched onto this.

It's not gunna happen.

There is no reason for it to happen, and it would cost a bomb, and probably require quadding along there as well. Nope, nope, nope.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Running a full loop through the western suburbs for Metro services would anyone consider electrifying the line between Newport and Sunshine so trains could avoid having to go back through Footscray making Newport and Sunshine and Wyndham Vale key interchanges?


I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone latched onto this.

It's not gunna happen.

There is no reason for it to happen, and it would cost a bomb, and probably require quadding along there as well. Nope, nope, nope.
potatoinmymouth

That is a very definitive response.

There is a direct service potential between Newport and Sunshine which would take less than 10 minutes to complete end to end.  I really can't see a full lopp service working with the train running into and out of North Melbourne or Southern Cross.  This is the only way.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Labor has committed to sparking to Wyndham Vale and suggested that full sparking to Geetroit might be necessary.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/airport-rail-tunnel-to-sunshine-under-labor-s-regional-plan-20181016-p509vc.html

There seem to be a lot of railway lines running through Sunshine but not much detail yet on how specifically they will work, although a new track pair in a tunnel is on the cards.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Media reports today are stating the Geelong line will be electrified as I think was predicted on Railpage so great work guys.

Separate tracks for the metro areas also being provided in the build.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Media reports today are stating the Geelong line will be electrified as I think was predicted on Railpage so great work guys.

Separate tracks for the metro areas also being provided in the build.
x31
They claim, We don't know yet whether they will do a half-arsed job of it
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

They’ve done it more or less exactly how we’d want. More detail here:

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/western-rail-plan

Nothing locked in yet but the intention is clear.

New tunnel SCS-Sunshine, carrying Airport, Geelong and Ballarat. (Airport subject to routing change, I’d say).

Sparking via existing RRL tracks to WV and Melton, with a possible Werribee-WV connection to complete the SRL concept.

This has been clearly thought through and looks like a genuine long term solution. I’m very impressed.

On the other hand it’s disappointing that Labor have fallen for the “fast train” rhetoric and there’s the very real risk we might get a worse job as a result.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
The best part will be the 200 km/h which will need electrification from Geelong (South Geelong area) to Melbourne via Tarneit.  So the RRL lines will get wires and faster trains as the EMU's will be lighter than the current DMU's so this will be excellent.

What about Ballarat Services?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

New track pair Sunshine-Watergardens is also hinted at as a possible future development in the attached document.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

New track pair Sunshine-Watergardens is also hinted at as a possible future development in the attached document.
potatoinmymouth
That's needed at a bare minimum for Bendigo services.  There's also a hint of upgrading the Eastern track between Sunbury and Kyneton to Class 1 (160 km/h running) which makes sense.

As for Ballarat and Geelong electrification - that should be 25 kV AC (instead of 1500 VDC for Melton and Wyndham Vale/Werribee Metro trains).  Not keen to see diesels run through the CBD - Sunshine tunnel either to be honest.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
New track pair Sunshine-Watergardens is also hinted at as a possible future development in the attached document.
potatoinmymouth

Would there be enough space for a second track pair in that area?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

New track pair Sunshine-Watergardens is also hinted at as a possible future development in the attached document.

Would there be enough space for a second track pair in that area?
x31
The Ballarat road and Ring Road overpasses appear to have space for another track pair.  The road-under crossings wouldn't be too difficult.

But the recently completed Ginifer and St Albans grade separations do not.  DOH!
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

They’ve done it more or less exactly how we’d want. More detail here:

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/western-rail-plan

Nothing locked in yet but the intention is clear.

New tunnel SCS-Sunshine, carrying Airport, Geelong and Ballarat. (Airport subject to routing change, I’d say).

Sparking via existing RRL tracks to WV and Melton, with a possible Werribee-WV connection to complete the SRL concept.

This has been clearly thought through and looks like a genuine long term solution. I’m very impressed.

On the other hand it’s disappointing that Labor have fallen for the “fast train” rhetoric and there’s the very real risk we might get a worse job as a result.
potatoinmymouth
Labor have wound back the Geelong fast train rhetoric over last months in that now we are talking reality  200kmh operation on Class-1 track yes likely,  40 minute express time to Geelong achievable , Ltd stops 45mins & SAS  50 mins + .  Punters will be more than happy, just want better reliability and longer trains .
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Geelong high speed rail and electrification For other discussions on the Geelong Line: Check out these threads: How Geelong line able to cope becoming a metropolitan line in the future https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386457.htm Geelong rail expansion and its own metro system https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11385957-0-asc-s0.htm Best case scenario for future of Geelong line (The plan) I have combined the two concepts on how to still utilise the RRL route and have a better direct route to service those at Geelong and beyond. Smile. I like to thank others on the site for the comments on the previous idea and got me thinking of this concept (I'm not claiming is my idea). This is a good blog post a little outdated (2008) but still relevant today: https://melbpt.wordpress.com/electrification-economics/ Ok here it goes. It is a most expensive proposal ever but I think others alike know this is a long term plan and must get it right for the potential surge of patronage in the South West Region of Victoria and the Western part of Melbourne. Costs involved are estimates only, may increase as time passes. Gives an idea the scale of such a project. This is probably the best case scenario for the Geelong line. Some needs a detail business case and planning document to see whether such a project could go ahead or if other projects take priority as I focussed on one part of Victoria. The new Geelong metro line (stops all stations) 90 km of electrification on existing Geelong Route via RRL (500 million+ ) 7 km of Quad between Sunshine and Deerpark + grade separations (600 million) Additional 3 stations on RRL (250 million) Upgrade track needing repairing (200 million+ ) Werribee line extension to Wyndham vale (500 million) New rolling stock 30-35 trains and stabling facility (1 billion) * Note: *The existing VLocity trains can be used onto the Warrnambool line, and other lines needing more services. Older rolling stock on other lines can be replaced with these trains. Only older rolling stock will be out of service Geelong High speed rail (express route, stops at Avalon airport, Werribee and Southern Cross)** New double tracks from Geelong to Newport with a divert to Avalon airport High speed trains (number of trains to be investigated**) New stations at Avalon airport Rebuild Werribee station for interchange Metro 2 tunnel (four tracks- one set for Werribee, the other set for the High speed trains) New stabling yard built Note; **Planning study needs to investigate costs and benefits of such a project
True Believers



Geelong needs to be its own city with reliable transport and fast link to Melbourne. Like you, I agree there should be two routes, one fast line that stops Southen Cross-Sunshine-North Shore-Geelong-Waurn Ponds (35 Mins) and one Torquay stopping all stations going via the future MM2 Tunnel and Werribee.

Geelong and North Shore then become huge Interchanges for the Geelong Line and customers wanting to travel to with the fast or Werribee route, giving Geelong Line commuters flexibility.

Then you also have the Geelong to Ballarat Line that should reopen and the Warrnambool line running through as well as a future,  tram/light rail system.
  Lockie91 Train Controller

@PTVcommunter

As has been said time and time again. The idea of spending billions creating east - west and north - South metros is to SEGREGATE lines.

Geelong does not nor will it ever need a two tier service any time in the near future. I agree that it is a city in its own right. The future Geelong HSR will serve the needs for many many decades to come.

With the talked about tunnel for express services into Southern Cross there will be plenty of capacity to have a 10 minute or better service to Geelong. If it is built right there is no reason you couldn’t have HSR Rolling stock come from Geelongs suburbs or even Warrnambool at 160km (as is the track speed now) and then hit 200km + on the journey into Melbourne on the new HSR line.

Putting a 10 minute inter urban service into a High Capacity/ High Frequency metro service is asking for trouble.

Independent and Segregated Lines. Metro and Regional.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

@Lockie91

With the High Speed Rail To Geelong and Ballarat you would want the new rollingstock to travel at 250km/h not 200km/h. A huge investment in a new fleet for just a 40km/h increase wouldn’t be worth it. However, Geelong passengers want reliability and a service around 40 Minutes which will be done with dedicated tracks into the city. But you’d want this new fleet of regional fast trains to travel at 250m/h. It also means Victoria becomes the leader in Australia for High Speed Rail.

My issue is, you have plenty of stations that need to have a service and a fast train stopping at all of them will slow down the time. Lara, Little River, Corio, North Shore, North Geelong, Geelong, South Geelong, Marshall and Waurn Ponds. Then you have to factor in that Geelong and Werribee passengers want the connection reinstated between those two suburbs and then there is the Torquay line to factor in.

- Torquay Line uses VLocity Trains and Stops all Stations to Southern Cross
- High Speed Geelong Line Stops at Waurn Ponds-Marshall-South Geelong-Geelong then express to Southern Cross
- Winchelsea to Werribee Stops all Stations and runs every hour
- Geelong to Ballarat Line


Or you could have the Geelong and Torquay trains run a mixture of stopping all stations and express using the new fast trains with travel times between 27 and 40 Minutes
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

For that last poster who has had his post and everyone else, I’d like to you know
Spending hundreds of millions on a new train set that will have a 40km/h increase is a waste
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
For that last poster who has had his post and everyone else, I’d like to you know
Spending hundreds of millions on a new train set that will have a 40km/h increase is a waste
ptvcommuter
There really Is nowhere In Victoria's Intercity zone where any speed over 200 km/h would be piratical.

A level crossing free section of the Geelong line, would probably be the only section permitted above 160 km/h.

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