@ptvcommuter @ZH836301 True Believers post here instead of infecting the clyde thread with your nonsense about this stupid railway line.It doesn't matter, I've finished with discussing about that
Ok here goesgo away you goose.....................
Frankston to Dandenong is an extremely beneficial project for the south east of Melbourne. It would be delivered alongside the Quadruplication of Caulfield/South Yarra To Dandenong and deliver services to Peninsula.
Mornington Peninsula area has a population of 165,000 people. Current PT access to the Peninsula is poor and needs to be improved.
By creating a Mornington Peninsula Line terminating near the town centre, you can take people off roads and onto trains. A huge park and ride station with regular, frequent busses to the surrounding suburbs would transform Melbourne. Trains would be packed in the summer with tourists and beach goers, while also being used by the people with quick access to Melbourne, Frankston, Dandenong and Clayton
Building Frankston to Dandenong Line which would be above ground wouldn’t be cost excessive and wouldn’t involve tunneling. This project would help decentralise Melbourne and improve services to the regions.
By having the Mornington and upgraded Stony Point Line running via this link and through the Dandenong-Sth Yarra Quadruplicated tracks, you guarantee a fast trip from the Peninsula to the city. It also enables faster Traralgon Line Services separating VLine and Metro and getting rid of the bottleneck.
For a distance of around 70-80km it would take a maximum of 45 Minutes, Stopping at Mornington, Frankston, Dandenong, Clayton and Richmond smashing travel times and the car with the current VLocity fleet. It would relive some pressure off the Frankston Line and transform the South East
It’s a no brainer and it should be built
cheersso you mean ZH thatWhy do they deserve an express?
existing pax that have a partial express Frankston to Flinders St (60 minutes),
are now going to be given the "improvement" of an SAS (70 minutes),
just so the lucky few out Mornington can have a fancy express (why do they deserve an express ??) of what 40-50-60 minutes.
Good question, why do Carrum-Cheltenham deserve express services when others like Mernda don't? The reality is, that those express services are a luxury that will not be sustainable. The first domino to fall is between Caulfield and South Yarra, as all services will need to stop all stations to maximise capacity, reducing 3 minutes from the 10 minute gain for express services. Next, as frequencies increase, reliability will start to fall. Finally, demand for increased services will kill them off completely.
REPLY: it's not a case of my train is better/worse than yours. Frankston line has 3 tracks to work with, Mernda has only 2 (for now)
Let's just rip one out to make them both equal: BS
Sure maximize capacity is a worthy aim, but you sound like just packing more pax into the same number of trains.
Just tell all those standing for an hour "she'll be right just hang on to the straps for an extra 10 minutes".
Increase frequency = poor reliability = kill them off completely. what poppy cock.
So why Frankston/Mornington Peninsula then? Well it's a significant transport base, and as with regional destinations and other outer suburban regions like Casey, stopping all stations become intolerably along. Residents also find significant employment along the Dandenong-Caulfield arc. But above all it is the best solution for the price, given quadding to Dandenong is an inevitability.
REPLY: so it is intolerably long for outer suburbs, but those closer in don't matter at all.
Dragging down a worthwhile improvement such as the Dandy quad, with a bunch of peripheral nonsense, is almost a guarantee that nothing will be done.
Mentone to Seaford is a relatively thin wedge of suburbia, and no more entitled to express services than any other suburban destinations of that distance. With a proper metro frequency waiting time decreases, and the overall addition to that 7 minute express gain becomes meaningless. Stopping all services along the line are largely time competitive with road, but to Frankston and the Peninsula with Eastlink, they are not.
REPLY: wait time is now 5-10 minutes.
So you are going to reduce that by maybe 3, and at the same time increase journey time by 7-10. That crappy service change IS meaningfuland YES, I have been on "proper metro"Just London, quite worldly.
EG:
Heathrow - Kings Cross - 29km 57 minutes
Kings Cross - Cockfosters - 18km 34 minutes
Total Piccadilly line 47 km 91 minutes
compare
Frankston - Flinders St 44km 60 minutes
Metro are NOT fast, they just seem that way 'cause you're cooped up in a tunnel.
REPLY: typical smart arsery.
that's just one example, where the journey distance is comparable.
What you fail to recognise is that Metro cities like: London, Paris, Munich, Rome, Milan, Moscow, Madrid, Singapore, Shangai, Beijing, New York, Montreal are vastly smaller geographically than Melbourne.
By the time you reach 20km you're really out in the sticks. (except Singapore)
Melbourne by comparison, you're only about half way - roughly the SRL route.
and YES I have ridden those rails.
Nobody said metros are fast, it's basic knowledge that they aren't, since they rely on close station spacing and high frequencies to maximise patronage. But they also have substantial turnover, since density and a lack of centralisation means most people only travel a short distance to work - the average journey length in London is only 9km, similar for Paris and Berlin.
REPLY: sure average 9km - in keeping with much smaller cities
Most people in Melbourne also work close to home, but the low density makes buses more suitable for such trips, however the bus system simply isn't up to scratch, hence why most drive. Where rail does work is to the city, since road travel becomes noncompetitive and journey paths converge. The future should be focused on metrofying the network, with extra density along rail lines such that short journeys fall along the path of rail, and to help increase contraflow.
REPLY: sure busses need improvement. Relevance ?
Extra density is happening all over the city as we speak. I thought that was the point of SRL, but you don't like a wheel, just spokes.
Btw, nobody takes the metro from Heathrow, they use the Heathrow express - like Frankston metro vs Frankston express.
REPLY: the discussion is about Metro and you throw in a private EXPRESS train that costs $48, PLUS the Metro cost to get to/from Paddington.
You can sit on your fancy train, I'm with the thousands of others on the tube.20km new track, with no reservation, and maybe use some of the Eastlink median.Wrong path - since proposed, the plan has always been to connect with the Cranbourne line, either south of the built up regions at the Western Port Hwy (13km) or slightly longer via Eumemmering Creek (14.5km). You do not need to have a direct path to offer substantial reductions in journey time.
Once you get to the Eastlink/Dandy By-pass intersection: how do you get to Dandy station
REPLY: So we are now along Thompson's Road?
Which one to buldoze ? Sandhurst ? Lundhurst?
Or just fill in the creek for another freeway (oops railway) like they did in the 60's - never to be repeated.
"south of the built up regions" - that would be Clyde ??How many stations ?? NONE ?? so again it's just a junket for Mornington ?
So does that make 27km of new railway for the Regional Rail Link a junket for Geelong? Wait, I forgot, regional services, despite having journey times superior to much of the outer city, are on a special pedestal that demands they have uninterrupted access to the city at any cost.
@PIMM already answered that rubbish
But a station midway around Thompsons Rd would be useful for connections from Carrum Downs and into the southern industrial regions of Dandenong. But then again, I'm sure you'd prefer we just instead put the relatively small amount that would be spent on such a project into the much larger expense of dealing with the traffic spewing out of Eastlink.
REPLY: so the answer is ??
ONE plus all the existing stations along the Cranbourne line,
or are you going to quad that track also, so that you can build an EXPRESS (which you so obstinately oppose)
People on here have their priorities all over the place.
REPLY: Not so. Just think the Mornington-Frankston-Dandenong junket is a waste of breath
[color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI, ][b]@ptvcommuter[/b][/font][/size][/color] [color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI, ][b]@ZH836301[/b][/font][/size][/color] [color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI, ]True Believers[/font][/size][/color] post here instead of infecting the clyde thread with your nonsense about this stupid railway line.The irony, someone who spreads more foam than a fire brigade at a fuel fire whining about a 'stupid railway line'.
Let's just rip one out to make them both equal: BS
What you fail to recognise is that Metro cities like: London, Paris, Munich, Rome, Milan, Moscow, Madrid, Singapore, Shangai, Beijing, New York, Montreal are vastly smaller geographically than Melbourne... Melbourne by comparison, you're only about half way - roughly the SRL route.
REPLY: sure busses need improvement. Relevance ?
PT access to the Peninsula does not require a gold plated railway line via Dandenong. Improving PT services WITHIN the peninsula for its almost 30,000 workers is more important.
Lastly phrases like “it’s a no brainer” do not help your cause. Less line drawing and a little more number crunching.
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