It's the economy, stupid!

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
No need to worry about Queensland. Our Government composed of Union heavies and Labor true believers is expert at debt creation and management. They have assured all Queenslanders that it is not a concern. Even the $ billions being expended on Cross River Rail and then the Nambour Upgrade will not stretch the credit rating.
neillfarmer
The problem with Qld is that its now at a point it has to do the CRR and duplication to Landsborough (Nambour can wait), these projects have been deferred long enough.

Problem is ALP won't sell assets to retire debt or fund capital. After 8 years of trying, they have given up on the Feds to fund the bulk of both projects although the Feds should put some money on the table for Nambour duplication and realignment for the benefit of freight and if it was SG, they likely would be. The Qld govt needs to step up to the plate on CRR and finally is. Its their problem to solve, not Canberra's (read Sydney and Melbourne taxpayers).

In all three eastern states, the rail networks need to have a permanent slice of the respective annual budgets for expansion, cannot keep looking for the Chinese or who ever to fund via borrowings. None of the states have a single one off project like buying a house, where you just buy one. Its ongoing repetative spending, they are all behind and it will take 25 years to resolve even if say Qld allocated $1B a year for 25 years to both catch up and then catch with growth over next 25 years. Sydney is 2-3 x that amount.

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China decides to ban Australian coal for some reason (ABC);

Australian coal producers have suffered another savage hit, with Chinese authorities placing an indefinite ban on imports ahead of a strict new regime of quotas.

The Reuters news agency reported customs officers based at the key northern port of Dalian stopped Australian coal imports and would move to cap imports through their harbours at 12 million tonnes a year.

The move appears political, with only Australian coal being targeted.

Reuters said imports from Russia and Indonesia would not be affected.

News of the ban sent the Australian dollar tumbling in late afternoon trade.

At 6:00pm (AEST) the dollar had tumbled below 71 US cents, having moved above 72 US cents after stronger-than-expected jobs data earlier in the day.

The vagaries of dealing with a cranky communist country as our primary export destination...
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

China decides to ban Australian coal for some reason (ABC);

Australian coal producers have suffered another savage hit, with Chinese authorities placing an indefinite ban on imports ahead of a strict new regime of quotas.

The Reuters news agency reported customs officers based at the key northern port of Dalian stopped Australian coal imports and would move to cap imports through their harbours at 12 million tonnes a year.

The move appears political, with only Australian coal being targeted.

Reuters said imports from Russia and Indonesia would not be affected.

News of the ban sent the Australian dollar tumbling in late afternoon trade.

At 6:00pm (AEST) the dollar had tumbled below 71 US cents, having moved above 72 US cents after stronger-than-expected jobs data earlier in the day.

The vagaries of dealing with a cranky communist country as our primary export destination...
don_dunstan
As I said, it's wise not to put all your eggs in one basket.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It was early last year, I was listening to a guy from a real estate company about the high end properties in Sydney, he basically said properties over $15m are always cash. Up to a few million is finance but tends to decrease with price and over $5M rarely financed. People buying these are wealthy, not your normal PAYE earners, often CEO's etc ho's salary is often many times larger than the property value and either paying cash or using their company to buy which is cash.
RTT_Rules
Which is what, one percent of the market or less?
Again back to Sydney, average property price is $900k or so, so at $2-2.5m and above who's buying these? You are talking high paid jobs like experienced Specialist medical practitioner, lawyers, maybe medium sized business owners etc The kind of people who if they borrow, don't need to borrow a large amount and less likely to fall on hard times.
RTT_Rules
Never assume that people who look like they're doing really well aren't riddled with debt. Again, please find some actual figures that confirm this and I'll believe you.
NSW spending on public infrastructure is well documented Don, and you are a full to say otherwise. It was the backbone of the Australian economy for a few years now, a major cause for the house price rises in Sydney and a key driver for migration from WA and Qld into Sydney. The NSW govt has spent more (non-borrowed) money on infrastructure in last 8 years than other states combined, most of which is borrowed and retired debt at the same time.

Income tax and GST receipts from the jobs they have, but the likes of NT SA, WA, Qld and Tas don't.
RTT_Rules
NSW is spending at the moment because they have the proceeds of one of the largest privatisations in Australia's history. Once this money is gone then they're back to square one. NSW gross state product is right in the middle of the distribution, they're not producing substantial exports like WA and the NT.

Also some of the biggest projects like Westconnex are being built with private money and will gouge Sydney-siders once complete. Sydney will have 24 (count 'em) toll roads once that's all done, all them private and all of them expensive by global standards. No wonder people are leaving in droves for other places.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
As I said, it's wise not to put all your eggs in one basket.
Transtopic
This is where we enter hyper-paranoid communist bizzaro-world.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry releases a statement about what's going on by saying Australian coal is being temporarily banned from landing in China... for no reason in particular:

"China's customs assesses the safety and quality of imported coal, analyses possible risks, and conducts corresponding examination and inspection compliant with laws and regulations," Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said.

"By doing so, it can better safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese importers and protect the environment."

Presumably Russian and Indonesian coal that they're still importing doesn't have the same kind of risk to the environment that our coal does. And the other reason for the banning of our coal is the thought-crime of accusing China of hacking our parliamentary computers... mind you, nobody in authority has actually come out and said it yet so they're punishing us in advance (just in case that's what we're thinking?):

"One should present abundant evidence when investigating and determining the nature of a cyberspace activity instead of making baseless speculations and firing indiscriminate shots at others," he said.

"Cyber security should be upheld by all members of the international community as it is a global issue that concerns the common interests of all countries."

He added a few words on China-Australia relations.

"As we stressed many times before, a sound and stable China-Australia relationship serves the common interests of both countries and peoples," he said.

"China hopes Australia can work with us to advance bilateral relations on the basis of mutual respect, equality and mutual benefit."

Wouldn't you think that signing that China/Australia Free-Trade Agreement would protect us from this sort of thing?

Nup.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Josh Frydenburg responds to the crisis by flapping around like a headless chook getting the key facts wrong - Bloomberg;

Frydenberg denied in an interview with Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio Friday that China’s reported move was retribution for Australia last year banning Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei Technologies Co. from its 5G network on security concerns. China has said the concerns are unreasonable and has warned other countries of unspecified consequences if they follow suit in blocking Huawei.

Asked whether China had banned Australian imports, he responded: “No, they haven’t…Our ambassador will be making inquiries,” Frydenberg said.

Ummm... very much looks like they have, Treasurer.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Josh Frydenburg responds to the crisis by flapping around like a headless chook getting the key facts wrong - Bloomberg;

Frydenberg denied in an interview with Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio Friday that China’s reported move was retribution for Australia last year banning Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei Technologies Co. from its 5G network on security concerns. China has said the concerns are unreasonable and has warned other countries of unspecified consequences if they follow suit in blocking Huawei.

Asked whether China had banned Australian imports, he responded: “No, they haven’t…Our ambassador will be making inquiries,” Frydenberg said.

Ummm... very much looks like they have, Treasurer.
don_dunstan
You wanted your war you might just get one.
Unfortunately this country has always been owned and we took what we were given. China's turn now and they have their take on things.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
You wanted your war you might just get one.
Groundrelay
I've never wanted a 'hot' war with China, there's no way we could win. What I've always called for is for us to not put all our faith and trust into Chinese good-will because (as Transtopic says) it's just plain stupid to have all our eggs in that one basket.

We should have been more realistic about the relationship and had better contingency plans in case just thing kind of thing happened.
Unfortunately this country has always been owned and we took what we were given. China's turn now and they have their take on things.
Groundrelay
It simply doesn't have to be that way, we need to show them in the strongest possible terms that we will not submit to this kind of economic blackmail. If our largest export destination screws us over because we stand by our principles then so be it, we'll survive even if it means catastrophic economic problems in the short term. We have lots of relative freedoms in this country that we've enjoyed for years, every now and again freedom needs to be protected from totalitarian take-over and now might be one of those occasions.

I for one am not willing to trade our history of stable, democratic institutions and the rule of law for money - I don't care how much of a problem it is for the coal or iron ore industries.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
It was early last year, I was listening to a guy from a real estate company about the high end properties in Sydney, he basically said properties over $15m are always cash. Up to a few million is finance but tends to decrease with price and over $5M rarely financed. People buying these are wealthy, not your normal PAYE earners, often CEO's etc ho's salary is often many times larger than the property value and either paying cash or using their company to buy which is cash.
Which is what, one percent of the market or less?
Again back to Sydney, average property price is $900k or so, so at $2-2.5m and above who's buying these? You are talking high paid jobs like experienced Specialist medical practitioner, lawyers, maybe medium sized business owners etc The kind of people who if they borrow, don't need to borrow a large amount and less likely to fall on hard times.
Never assume that people who look like they're doing really well aren't riddled with debt. Again, please find some actual figures that confirm this and I'll believe you.
NSW spending on public infrastructure is well documented Don, and you are a full to say otherwise. It was the backbone of the Australian economy for a few years now, a major cause for the house price rises in Sydney and a key driver for migration from WA and Qld into Sydney. The NSW govt has spent more (non-borrowed) money on infrastructure in last 8 years than other states combined, most of which is borrowed and retired debt at the same time.

Income tax and GST receipts from the jobs they have, but the likes of NT SA, WA, Qld and Tas don't.
NSW is spending at the moment because they have the proceeds of one of the largest privatisations in Australia's history. Once this money is gone then they're back to square one. NSW gross state product is right in the middle of the distribution, they're not producing substantial exports like WA and the NT.

Also some of the biggest projects like Westconnex are being built with private money and will gouge Sydney-siders once complete. Sydney will have 24 (count 'em) toll roads once that's all done, all them private and all of them expensive by global standards. No wonder people are leaving in droves for other places.
don_dunstan
Maybe 1%, but big numbers big impact and it knocks on through the lower priced upper real estate market.

NSW has been spending for 7 years, slowly at first, but once debt paid off, faster. The powers and wires "lease" is icing on the cake.

Westconnex is a high cost road that has to be paid for by either taxpayer or user or both. It needs to be Tolled, it should be tolled and it will be tolled. This stuff isn't free and its about time Australia's accepted you want, you must pay as the tax base isn't big enough to pay for it nor should it in some cases. Remember the houses reclaimed are a $1m a piece on average.

Expensive, try driving around Japan and Europe. Don't like, take the old way or use PT, or simply move.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
You wanted your war you might just get one.
I've never wanted a 'hot' war with China, there's no way we could win. What I've always called for is for us to not put all our faith and trust into Chinese good-will because (as Transtopic says) it's just plain stupid to have all our eggs in that one basket.

We should have been more realistic about the relationship and had better contingency plans in case just thing kind of thing happened.
Unfortunately this country has always been owned and we took what we were given. China's turn now and they have their take on things.
It simply doesn't have to be that way, we need to show them in the strongest possible terms that we will not submit to this kind of economic blackmail. If our largest export destination screws us over because we stand by our principles then so be it, we'll survive even if it means catastrophic economic problems in the short term. We have lots of relative freedoms in this country that we've enjoyed for years, every now and again freedom needs to be protected from totalitarian take-over and now might be one of those occasions.

I for one am not willing to trade our history of stable, democratic institutions and the rule of law for money - I don't care how much of a problem it is for the coal or iron ore industries.
don_dunstan
You did want a war.

You complained when the govts did little against China, knowing full well actions have consequences.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
You did want a war.

You complained when the govts did little against China, knowing full well actions have consequences.
RTT_Rules
I have never, ever called for a 'war' with China. What I've always said is that they will keep pushing the boundaries until we push back, at which point they'll use trade to try and bash us back into line.

Which is exactly what is happening.

It's pointless saying "well we just should have let them do whatever they wanted within reason" because at some point they're going to cross a line just to see how we react. China's Foreign Ministry said that we had made 'baseless accusations' about the hacking of parliament and the political parties but the fact is that nobody in authority had even accused them of that. It was invented as a pretext to block or legitimate politically-motivated trade sanctions, which is what they were always - ALWAYS - going to do all along.

This scenario was always going to be the outcome. Wake up and smell the coffee!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Maybe 1%, but big numbers big impact and it knocks on through the lower priced upper real estate market.
RTT_Rules
Evidence?
NSW has been spending for 7 years, slowly at first, but once debt paid off, faster. The powers and wires "lease" is icing on the cake.
RTT_Rules
Again, 20-something billion, one of the biggest privatisations in Australia's history and you're congratulating them on already having blown the lot? Dan Andrews might be a socialist bumbler but at least Melbourne is getting the exact right sort of projects that it needs right now relatively on schedule and within budget - rail and road - whereas the NSW it's hard to point to anything that they've delivered remotely on time or on budget.

Hopeless. And you're defending their performance - why?
It needs to be Tolled, it should be tolled and it will be tolled. This stuff isn't free and its about time Australia's accepted you want, you must pay as the tax base isn't big enough to pay for it nor should it in some cases. Remember the houses reclaimed are a $1m a piece on average. Expensive, try driving around Japan and Europe. Don't like, take the old way or use PT, or simply move.
RTT_Rules
The public return was projected by Infrastructure Australia at 34 cents in the dollar - it was such a hopelessly expensive boondoggle that they had to privatise 49% of it ahead of schedule and they sold it at 'fire sale' prices. On top of that Gladys Bin Chicken is actually giving people free car registration if they drive on the toll roads about a certain amount - ching ching! The fact that they had to lace the project with all these deliciously generous benefits to investors means it's a stinker and even the private sector could see that.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Evidence?
"don_dunstan"
Jeez, Don; when did you start worrying about evidence?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Evidence?
Jeez, Don; when did you start worrying about evidence?
Valvegear
Did you see I called the NSW Premier "Bin Chicken"? Que outrage from Valvegear.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Good on you, Don; I knew I could rely on you. You take the bait like a starving barramundi, every time.

(By the way, I think you mean "Cue"; not "Que")
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Good on you, Don; I knew I could rely on you. You take the bait like a starving barramundi, every time.

(By the way, I think you mean "Cue"; not "Que")
Valvegear
The exact opposite: I know exactly what to say to get you fired up and blustering. I liken you more to a desperate child wanting my attention... "I wonder if don_dunstan is on line right now? I'm feeling a bit lonely."...
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Yeah, good try Don; your irrational responses are always worth a giggle. You can't even see that you've been sucked in time and time again, and I don't give two hoots what you think. I enjoy baiting you and, judging by PM's, other people enjoy you being a laughing stock, too. Happy ranting!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Haven't you got a bin to pick, Bin Chicken?
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

Haven't you got a bin to pick, Bin Chicken?
don_dunstan
That's all remaining in the ammo locker?
Such a disappointment.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Haven't you got a bin to pick, Bin Chicken?
That's all remaining in the ammo locker?
Such a disappointment.
michaelgm
I don't agree with everything that RTT_Rules (Shane) says but I can respect him after several years of crossing swords with him because he will at least pull apart my arguments.

Not so Valvegear, he just delights in his ad hominems against me - he's exactly the kind of troll that he thinks he's not.

Still, it must kill him and all the other deluded "true believers" that Pauline Hanson represents Australian workers more than the so-called "Labor" party does. Labor can't wait to sell out Aussie workers to cheap overseas labour and destroy our living standards.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Labor can't wait to sell out Aussie workers to cheap overseas labour and destroy our living standards.
don_dunstan
I thought you previously said that our living standards have already been destroyed???
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Not so Valvegear, he just delights in his ad hominems against me - he's exactly the kind of troll that he thinks he's not.
don_dunstan
Wrong again . . . where you're concerned, Valvegear's exactly the kind of troll that he's trying to be. You get incensed at my posts, use intemperate language, and I sit here and chuckle.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Not so Valvegear, he just delights in his ad hominems against me - he's exactly the kind of troll that he thinks he's not.
Wrong again . . . where you're concerned, Valvegear's exactly the kind of troll that he's trying to be. You get incensed at my posts, use intemperate language, and I sit here and chuckle.
Valvegear
Let me tell you (now my party guests have gone home...)

I hope the Labor Party burns completely to the ground - it's the only way to rehabilitate that abomination. It doesn't do a single God-damn thing for the poor working class, deprived of meaningful work by the chardonnay-quaffing self-appointed elites of the so-called worker's party.

What a sad irony that the much-derided Pauline Hanson, a person whose appearance you regularly mock in thought-crime, is the only person who really represents the interests of those who work with their hands. No wonder you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that single fact - a fringe politician better represents ordinary working people than your Louis XXXI aristocrats of the Labor Party.

I hope they get what's coming to them.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Labor can't wait to sell out Aussie workers to cheap overseas labour and destroy our living standards.
I thought you previously said that our living standards have already been destroyed???
Anna Bortion
IN the words of those forgettable one-hit wonders The Bachman-Turner Overdrive - You ain't seen nothin' yet.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Maybe 1%, but big numbers big impact and it knocks on through the lower priced upper real estate market.
Evidence?
NSW has been spending for 7 years, slowly at first, but once debt paid off, faster. The powers and wires "lease" is icing on the cake.
Again, 20-something billion, one of the biggest privatisations in Australia's history and you're congratulating them on already having blown the lot? Dan Andrews might be a socialist bumbler but at least Melbourne is getting the exact right sort of projects that it needs right now relatively on schedule and within budget - rail and road - whereas the NSW it's hard to point to anything that they've delivered remotely on time or on budget.

Hopeless. And you're defending their performance - why?
It needs to be Tolled, it should be tolled and it will be tolled. This stuff isn't free and its about time Australia's accepted you want, you must pay as the tax base isn't big enough to pay for it nor should it in some cases. Remember the houses reclaimed are a $1m a piece on average. Expensive, try driving around Japan and Europe. Don't like, take the old way or use PT, or simply move.
The public return was projected by Infrastructure Australia at 34 cents in the dollar - it was such a hopelessly expensive boondoggle that they had to privatise 49% of it ahead of schedule and they sold it at 'fire sale' prices. On top of that Gladys Bin Chicken is actually giving people free car registration if they drive on the toll roads about a certain amount - ching ching! The fact that they had to lace the project with all these deliciously generous benefits to investors means it's a stinker and even the private sector could see that.
don_dunstan
So what exactly did the NSW govt blow the money on?
- Debt reduction? nope, not required!
- Social welfare programs? nope, unemployment is less than 4%, not required.
- Building pipe dream energy projects? Nope, well not much

How about, building Australia's largest rail infrastructure projects which combined exceed the rest of the country combined for last 20 years. Most of it on time, on budget.

Oh well, another state govt building a toll road using private sector that is in financial trouble. I guess we will see how it goes.

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