Murray Basin standardisation

 
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
How many threads is that going to get posted in? Yes, MBRP is a balls up, we all acknowledge that. But now things starting to improve with the recent announcement by Wakefields of a 5 trains per week service.

Yes, all those things may have been done / not done but SHOW ME THE DEMAND for the extra loops, MBY staging etc etc.

Poor grain harvest means less demand for paths, no new traffic springs to mind so why would you rush out and build things that will not get used?

I toured the Hopetoun branch recently, not much sign of life on that SG converted line either, Mineral Sands traffic ceased, nothing has sprung up to replace it. Not much grain to be had up North this year.

BG

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  Richard stroker Locomotive Fireman

Would anyone know if there is a programme in place to fix any or rectify the problems with the original gauge conversion works , ie speed restrictions due to track faults , to get consistent line speed up to 80 km/h?

Could be a good season for the farmers up that way next season
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Would anyone know if there is a programme in place to fix any or rectify the problems with the original gauge conversion works , ie speed restrictions due to track faults , to get consistent line speed up to 80 km/h?
Richard stroker

There is. Not that the RRA or the doomsday snake oil salesmen on here would tell you that.

The government is certainly not prioritising this – but nor are they abandoning it, as the ~$150 million in additional funding to improve the original poorly planned Ballarat area scope shows.

No doubt some of that money will also be going to tidying up the TSRs on the first stage of works.

About 13km of the 385km Dunolly-Mildura section (3.4%) is currently under TSRs. About half of that is due to level crossing sighting and is simply a case of a man with a chainsaw spending a couple of days along the line at some point.

The Ararat-Maryborough section is in far worse shape, about 24/94km TSR (25%) on top of a ridiculous line speed of 60km/h for the line.

But it's usable, as Wakefields obviously agree.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Just out of interest, does anyone know when a grain train was last loaded at Dunolly?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
And follow up to Mike's question, does GrainCorp want to use trains at Dunolly?
  Bonzel Locomotive Fireman

Just out of interest, does anyone know when a grain train was last loaded at Dunolly?
mikesyd
BL32-G528 loaded at Dunolly on 20-02-17 , with G543 running there to collect a defective hopper on 07-08-17 prior to sidings being removed and regauged. So far no SG grain has been loaded there.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
And follow up to Mike's question, does GrainCorp want to use trains at Dunolly?
james.au
I do recall seeing somewhere in the Murray Basin documents a list of grain sidings and whether GrainCorp etc wanted to retain them. The answer in regard to the then SG siding at Dunolly (the one on the Eastern side that ran around the station) was NO.

So it's only the former BG (now SG) grain siding that is the issue.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
And follow up to Mike's question, does GrainCorp want to use trains at Dunolly?
I do recall seeing somewhere in the Murray Basin documents a list of grain sidings and whether GrainCorp etc wanted to retain them. The answer in regard to the then SG siding at Dunolly (the one on the Eastern side that ran around the station) was NO.

So it's only the former BG (now SG) grain siding that is the issue.
mikesyd
My question is if they still want to use rail to load out from Dunolly to port (or other locations).  I guess if they have standardised the BG loading track that suggests that they do.  Surely then it can't take much to sort out the points?  Unless the cost of roading vs railing via Ararat is such that road is cheaper and they are waiting for the Ballarat section to be done before reinstating the use of rail?
  Bonzel Locomotive Fireman

And follow up to Mike's question, does GrainCorp want to use trains at Dunolly?
I do recall seeing somewhere in the Murray Basin documents a list of grain sidings and whether GrainCorp etc wanted to retain them. The answer in regard to the then SG siding at Dunolly (the one on the Eastern side that ran around the station) was NO.

So it's only the former BG (now SG) grain siding that is the issue.
My question is if they still want to use rail to load out from Dunolly to port (or other locations).  I guess if they have standardised the BG loading track that suggests that they do.  Surely then it can't take much to sort out the points?  Unless the cost of roading vs railing via Ararat is such that road is cheaper and they are waiting for the Ballarat section to be done before reinstating the use of rail?
james.au
Siding is connected at both ends to mainline.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
And follow up to Mike's question, does GrainCorp want to use trains at Dunolly?
I do recall seeing somewhere in the Murray Basin documents a list of grain sidings and whether GrainCorp etc wanted to retain them. The answer in regard to the then SG siding at Dunolly (the one on the Eastern side that ran around the station) was NO.

So it's only the former BG (now SG) grain siding that is the issue.
My question is if they still want to use rail to load out from Dunolly to port (or other locations).  I guess if they have standardised the BG loading track that suggests that they do.  Surely then it can't take much to sort out the points?  Unless the cost of roading vs railing via Ararat is such that road is cheaper and they are waiting for the Ballarat section to be done before reinstating the use of rail?
Siding is connected at both ends to mainline.
Bonzel
Ok good to know - my memory wasn't sure from our conversation up thread.  So it myst be economics that are dictating the road vs rail use at Dunolly.
  Bonzel Locomotive Fireman

And follow up to Mike's question, does GrainCorp want to use trains at Dunolly?
I do recall seeing somewhere in the Murray Basin documents a list of grain sidings and whether GrainCorp etc wanted to retain them. The answer in regard to the then SG siding at Dunolly (the one on the Eastern side that ran around the station) was NO.

So it's only the former BG (now SG) grain siding that is the issue.
My question is if they still want to use rail to load out from Dunolly to port (or other locations).  I guess if they have standardised the BG loading track that suggests that they do.  Surely then it can't take much to sort out the points?  Unless the cost of roading vs railing via Ararat is such that road is cheaper and they are waiting for the Ballarat section to be done before reinstating the use of rail?
Siding is connected at both ends to mainline.
Ok good to know - my memory wasn't sure from our conversation up thread.  So it myst be economics that are dictating the road vs rail use at Dunolly.
james.au
Just no export grain all for domestic use i`m told , a lot of grain from Vic going to NSW for stock feed and to Manildra. Imagine some from the bunkers and silo`s at Dunolly may end up on a train to NSW a some stage .
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just no export grain all for domestic use i`m told , a lot of grain from Vic going to NSW for stock feed and to Manildra. Imagine some from the bunkers and silo`s at Dunolly may end up on a train to NSW a some stage .
Bonzel
Ahhh, of course.  Which Manildra plant is it going to?  Dunolly to SNSW is probably a road haul job too given the rail unload capabilities might not be great in some of those areas (and the SG/BG issue would be present too....
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Siding is connected at both ends to mainline.
Bonzel

Both Gauges?
  Bonzel Locomotive Fireman

Just no export grain all for domestic use i`m told , a lot of grain from Vic going to NSW for stock feed and to Manildra. Imagine some from the bunkers and silo`s at Dunolly may end up on a train to NSW a some stage .
Ahhh, of course.  Which Manildra plant is it going to?  Dunolly to SNSW is probably a road haul job too given the rail unload capabilities might not be great in some of those areas (and the SG/BG issue would be present too....
james.au
The train in this clip originated at Ouyen was for Manildra unsure which plant . They have been going Junee Sub , Parkes , Moree and a few other places to dump .  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVfURZkZoU4
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Siding is connected at both ends to mainline.

Both Gauges?
bevans
No. The only BG in Dunolly now is the Platform Road.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just no export grain all for domestic use i`m told , a lot of grain from Vic going to NSW for stock feed and to Manildra. Imagine some from the bunkers and silo`s at Dunolly may end up on a train to NSW a some stage .
Ahhh, of course.  Which Manildra plant is it going to?  Dunolly to SNSW is probably a road haul job too given the rail unload capabilities might not be great in some of those areas (and the SG/BG issue would be present too....
The train in this clip originated at Ouyen was for Manildra unsure which plant . They have been going Junee Sub , Parkes , Moree and a few other places to dump .  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVfURZkZoU4
Bonzel
I'd suspect Bomaderry then - Narrandera I think could source its most of its own inputs locally even in a drought

If going to feedlots in SNSW, they're very disbursed which wouldn't be rail friendly i think.

Sounds then like the RRAV might have an incomplete picture of the Dunolly situation.  They might need to look at the broader network and make their argument about other network issues other places to get this freight on rail....
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Siding is connected at both ends to mainline.

Both Gauges?
No. The only BG in Dunolly now is the Platform Road.
mikesyd

How completely short sighted that really is so the the long way around for grain out of Dunolly which RRA state is being heavily serviced  by trucks.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVfURZkZoU4

The train in the video was recorded via GHAPLOOP as 5KC3 last thursday.

Also note the NSW grain wagons on this train.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This video via Dunolly.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8zljgvfP2E
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Also note the UP Fruity arriving into Gheringhap a lot earlier now https://www.railpage.com.au/railcams/gheringhaploop3/photo/47270263331
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Siding is connected at both ends to mainline.

Both Gauges?
No. The only BG in Dunolly now is the Platform Road.

How completely short sighted that really is so the the long way around for grain out of Dunolly which RRA state is being heavily serviced  by trucks.

The train in the video was recorded via GHAPLOOP as 5KC3 last thursday.

Also note the NSW grain wagons on this train.
bevans
So, what's your point bevans?

To get from Ouyen to Central NSW/NW NSW by rail as the first video depicts means a trip via Melbourne - The Murray Basin project has actually helped (in fact its probably new business even) as the grain does not need to be transhipped at a break of gauge.

And the second merely makes a comment on the 'decrepit' state of the Dunolly Station building.

Perhaps the RRA could provide some evidence from GrainCorp as to the destination of grain originating from Dunolly and why they are not using Rail.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
No point as such other than acknowledging the value we are now seeing for the SG works enabling for the first time trains to load in North west victoria and be able to unload interstate.  This is certainly valuable.

The video shows track at the Platform which seems to indicate BG only at the station platform.  Downside is the inability to get a BG grain into the loading terminal at Dunolly when you could prior to the works.  This would enable a very direct route for trains between Dunolly terminal and the Geelong Grain loop on BG.
  Bonzel Locomotive Fireman

No point as such other than acknowledging the value we are now seeing for the SG works enabling for the first time trains to load in North west victoria and be able to unload interstate.  This is certainly valuable.

The video shows track at the Platform which seems to indicate BG only at the station platform.  Downside is the inability to get a BG grain into the loading terminal at Dunolly when you could prior to the works.  This would enable a very direct route for trains between Dunolly terminal and the Geelong Grain loop on BG.
bevans
Geelong Grain Loop and Appleton Dock both have dual gauge track , only train that can`t load here is the SSR Kensington grain train .
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
No point as such other than acknowledging the value we are now seeing for the SG works enabling for the first time trains to load in North west victoria and be able to unload interstate.  This is certainly valuable.

The video shows track at the Platform which seems to indicate BG only at the station platform.  Downside is the inability to get a BG grain into the loading terminal at Dunolly when you could prior to the works.  This would enable a very direct route for trains between Dunolly terminal and the Geelong Grain loop on BG.
bevans
Well as the RRA made the damming statement, perhaps they could tell their audience just where the grain from Dunolly is going, rather than make broad statement with no facts - perhaps all the trucks they mention were delivering to Dunolly, and leaving empty?

The eventual completion of the MBRP should see that BG track removed, or converted to SG in any case as there is no justification to terminate BG passenger trains there.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
The video shows track at the Platform which seems to indicate BG only at the station platform.  Downside is the inability to get a BG grain into the loading terminal at Dunolly when you could prior to the works.  This would enable a very direct route for trains between Dunolly terminal and the Geelong Grain loop on BG.
bevans
I reckon GrainCorp is a big enough player in the grain market, if they wanted or needed all the connections going under the grain loading hopper, it would be in operation, as I said in one of the other threads on this, depends on where the grain is going too.

And while I'm at it, it's been mentioned, that the line speed to Murrayville is slower than before conversion, again if this was a problem for GrainCorp, I'm sure something would be done about it, so if the line speed is fine for them, what is the problem on here with it. Yeah it would be nice to have a train barreling out to Murrayville at 80kph and big gun axle load, but for what, how many trains per year, especially in a year like this one...........Rolling Eyes

BigShunter.
  Bonzel Locomotive Fireman

No point as such other than acknowledging the value we are now seeing for the SG works enabling for the first time trains to load in North west victoria and be able to unload interstate.  This is certainly valuable.

The video shows track at the Platform which seems to indicate BG only at the station platform.  Downside is the inability to get a BG grain into the loading terminal at Dunolly when you could prior to the works.  This would enable a very direct route for trains between Dunolly terminal and the Geelong Grain loop on BG.
Well as the RRA made the damming statement, perhaps they could tell their audience just where the grain from Dunolly is going, rather than make broad statement with no facts - perhaps all the trucks they mention were delivering to Dunolly, and leaving empty?

The eventual completion of the MBRP should see that BG track removed, or converted to SG in any case as there is no justification to terminate BG passenger trains there.
mikesyd
The bunkers have grown over last few months not gotten smaller.

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