Goulburn derailment

 
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

This has not not had a lot of press, given that it has resulted in a 100% shut down of all trains, both passenger and freight in and out of Goulburn.

https://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/5983478/derailment-repair-recovery-underway/


It occurred at about 4-15 AM on Sunday morning.

No injuries, but at least one wagon of the Melbourne-Brisbane freighter is completely on its side and another at a jaunty angle.

NSW TrainLink caught completely on the hop, and obviously mass bustitution all day and night (including overnight XPTs already en route).

I was booked on the ex-Griffith service from Junee this morning. That train was cancelled anyway before it even got to Junee due to the usual 'mechanical issues'. Of course it would not have then got that far north anyway with the Goulburn derailment.

Meanwhile, 'emergency' repairs on The Blue Mountains line saw another round of buses all day, including for the Dubbo XPT and for regular intercity trains. And, with complete shutdown on the Illawarra line, (not to mention roadworks around Central), road space was at a premium for the dozens and dozens of buses being used. It was pretty chaotic when I rolled in at 9-00 PM tonight.

To complete TrainLink's woeful Sunday, their website reports 'operational' and 'mechanical' issues delaying both the north and southbound Armidale/Moree services.

If NSW TrainLink was a dog.......... (yes, I know it is not all their fault, but they really can't take a trick as my grandmother used to say).

A bit more trivia for those who are keen to read on:

1. About 11-00 AM today, while waiting for the never-to-arrive train from Griffith, an empty XPT rolled into the platform at Junee, did a reverse job (after some issues with getting the points to set correctly...holding up the level crossing for quite a while), and was put away in the far siding (with engines shut down).
The jovial but no doubt tired overnight crew were still on board, and they emptied out all of the perishable food, which they offered to the hungry and cold passengers waiting at Junee. The remainder, sadly, would have had to be dumped as it would have been out of refrigeration was too long otherwise.
Later on, the crew were seen getting into a station wagon taxi bound for Albury.

2. Oh, and despite being told otherwise over the phone, passengers waiting for the 9-49 AM (ex Griffith) train to Sydney were not given an allocated bus replacement; instead we waited until 3-00 PM and jumped on the XPT replacement bus (with the driver knowing nothing about the Griffith train cancellation, but he let us on anyway...otherwise I guess we'd still be at Junee!

3. The Griffith run out of Sydney on Saturday had a two hour delay at Central due to coupling issues with the Canberra train. They eventually ran it as a separate set via Strathfield and Fairfield, just to add to the unusual nature of the day. But the super friendly crew made  up for a lot of it, and a late train is always better than a bus.

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  craigfitz1 Train Controller

An update regarding the Blue Mountains 'emergency' track repairs.

Despite TrainLink initially being somewhat coy about the actual issue, news reports have leaked out to inform us that there is a rock in danger of falling on to the tracks at Glenbrook; hence the total line closure.


This closure is ongoing and commuters this morning are in for a nasty surprise.

So, that's two major lines, south and west, out of action.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Appreciate the update as I wondered why the trains were not running.
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
"It seems to me that the train was too long to get into the yard and derailed on the way out," Mr Price said.

I find the above quote from the Southern Tablelands Rail Users Group is rather interesting.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
"It seems to me that the train was too long to get into the yard and derailed on the way out," Mr Price said.

I find the above quote from the Southern Tablelands Rail Users Group is rather interesting.
Jack Le Lievre
Can anyone with first hand knowledge of the yard in question tell us whether that observation from the Users Group member (probably a Pax organisation but their FB site is down) makes any sense?

BG
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

broken rail is being mentioned in SETS.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

Goulburn derailment - a report has it that the train was hauling beer to Qld. They can do with some decent beer.... (and wine).

I hope that all those responsible were subject to a breath test, and the beer was saved.

Wouldn't a train like this be popular in other parts of the country, particularly WA, SA and NT.

In a similar tradition to the Tea and Sugar, call such a train the Beer'n'Nuts....
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
"It seems to me that the train was too long to get into the yard and derailed on the way out," Mr Price said.

I find the above quote from the Southern Tablelands Rail Users Group is rather interesting.
Can anyone with first hand knowledge of the yard in question tell us whether that observation from the Users Group member (probably a Pax organisation but their FB site is down) makes any sense?

BG
BrentonGolding
Whilst the investigation will determine what actually happened, the train was coming out of the UP Refuge at Goulburn onto the Mainline when it derailed.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Goulburn derailment - a report has it that the train was hauling beer to Qld. They can do with some decent beer.... (and wine).
ANR

XXXX Bitter is fine by me...and the Granite Belt produces some good whites and reds as are available on QR long distance trains.

Mike.
  M636C Minister for Railways

"It seems to me that the train was too long to get into the yard and derailed on the way out," Mr Price said.

I find the above quote from the Southern Tablelands Rail Users Group is rather interesting.
Can anyone with first hand knowledge of the yard in question tell us whether that observation from the Users Group member (probably a Pax organisation but their FB site is down) makes any sense?

BG
Whilst the investigation will determine what actually happened, the train was coming out of the UP Refuge at Goulburn onto the Mainline when it derailed.
LowndesJ515

The up refuge is in frequent use, often for loaded grain trains, empty garbage trains and steel trains to allow faster intermodal or passenger trains to overtake. 3930 grain often waits for SP32 Explorer to pass.

It is not long enough for really long trains. I recall a late running MB9 being stowed in the refuge while the locomotives received repairs in order to continue. The two locomotives and the first four vans were detached and stowed on the down main since they wouldn't fit in the refuge.

The north end of the refuge has been resleepered twice in the past few years, initially with wooden sleepers and later with one in four low profile concrete sleepers. One gets the impression that the old trackwork was suffering from the effects of locomotives restarting trains from the same point.

The photos show that the points connecting the refuge to the main had been pushed out of alignment and presumably damaged, but the refuge track back up to the Braidwood Road bridge had been damaged as well. This suggests to me that the derailment may have occurred near the bridge before the refuge points, although it is possible for that track to be damaged by the trailing vehicles piling up on those derailed at the points...

Peter
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
"It seems to me that the train was too long to get into the yard and derailed on the way out," Mr Price said.

I find the above quote from the Southern Tablelands Rail Users Group is rather interesting.
Can anyone with first hand knowledge of the yard in question tell us whether that observation from the Users Group member (probably a Pax organisation but their FB site is down) makes any sense?

BG
BrentonGolding

This is the same guy who has authoritatively told the Goulburn Post that the new XPT replacements trains will be bi-modal.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Goulburn derailment - a report has it that the train was hauling beer to Qld. They can do with some decent beer.... (and wine).

I hope that all those responsible were subject to a breath test, and the beer was saved.

Wouldn't a train like this be popular in other parts of the country, particularly WA, SA and NT.

In a similar tradition to the Tea and Sugar, call such a train the Beer'n'Nuts....
ANR
Can someone orchestrate a Beer,n,nuts minor derailment or extended stoppage, in the Parramatta/Westmead area?

Thanks in advance, Mick.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

This is the same guy who has authoritatively told the Goulburn Post that the new XPT replacements trains will be bi-modal.
bingley hall

bi-model?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways


This is the same guy who has authoritatively told the Goulburn Post that the new XPT replacements trains will be bi-modal.
bi-model?
bevans
Bi-modal is correct, modal being the adjective relating to mode.

A bi-mode/bi-modal train is one fitted with an electric drivetrain which can take power from either a pantograph or diesel gensets. Run in full electric mode whenever running under the wires, diesel-electric mode outside of electrified areas.

Examples include the B82500 multiple units in France, Stadler FLIRT multiple units in some European countries including the UK, Hitachi Super Express Train (Class 800 and 802 versions) in the UK, Bombardier ALP-45DP locos used in the USA and Canada.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks jap but the comment about the jourmalist did not come from me I was just interested in the bi-model idea.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Thanks jap but the comment about the journalist did not come from me I was just interested in the bi-model idea.
bevans

Settle down...this is a family friendly forum...Smile
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The new NSW regional train to be built by CAF does have bi modal capability. So it is not beyond the realms of possibility since the new trains will be a diesel electric design.

As for Goulburn the talk is that it is either a broken rail or broken wheel. The damage happening before the points.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
The new NSW regional train to be built by CAF does have bi modal capability. So it is not beyond the realms of possibility since the new trains will be a diesel electric design.

As for Goulburn the talk is that it is either a broken rail or broken wheel. The damage happening before the points.
simstrain

There is also talk it is neither of these.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The new NSW regional train to be built by CAF does have bi modal capability. So it is not beyond the realms of possibility since the new trains will be a diesel electric design.
simstrain
The CAF Civity platform can be ordered in a bi-mode configuration, but the units ordered by TfNSW will not have it built in.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Final Report is out now. Nothing too spectacular, a broken rail from the preceding train dropped the block and 7MB9 was authorised to pass the signal at stop, through the affected section and derailed at the break. Could have been a lot worse though, track speed through the Up Refuge was 20kph, but speed beyond a controlled signal passed at stop can be up to track speed, based on info from the Signaller, so had this occurred on the main, the speed could have been much higher.

Food for thought for Driver's when passing red lights, particularly if you're going to be the first though the section...
  WimbledonW Train Controller

Location: Sydney


It is not long enough for really long trains. I recall a late running MB9 being stowed in the refuge while the locomotives received repairs in order to continue. The two locomotives and the first four vans were detached and stowed on the down main since they wouldn't fit in the refuge.

"M636C"


For diagram of Goulburn see: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR269.pdf . Does not show track circuits, however, or loop length.

The loop length is IIRC about 900m, from signal G38 to G29, this being a "standard length", originally 3000 feet or 915m.

A more careful measurement of the Up Refuge Loop length is 1065m, however if you stand right next to the signal it may make it hard to see the signals as they are on signal bridges.
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
"It seems to me that the train was too long to get into the yard and derailed on the way out," Mr Price said.

I find the above quote from the Southern Tablelands Rail Users Group is rather interesting.
Can anyone with first hand knowledge of the yard in question tell us whether that observation from the Users Group member (probably a Pax organisation but their FB site is down) makes any sense?

BG

This is the same guy who has authoritatively told the Goulburn Post that the new XPT replacements trains will be bi-modal.
bingley hall
….. and he was right too.  LOL

Don't flippantly discount the advice from persons unless you know their background.  I know Greg well and although he is now retired he was very active on regional freight and later Cityrail sevices.  If he is quoted incorrectly it is the fault of the dumb arsed journalist, not Greg.

Happy guessing,

John
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Final Report is out now. Nothing too spectacular, a broken rail from the preceding train dropped the block and 7MB9 was authorised to pass the signal at stop, through the affected section and derailed at the break. Could have been a lot worse though, track speed through the Up Refuge was 20kph, but speed beyond a controlled signal passed at stop can be up to track speed, based on info from the Signaller, so had this occurred on the main, the speed could have been much higher.

Food for thought for Driver's when passing red lights, particularly if you're going to be the first though the section...
KRviator
Just reading the report now, and an immediate question comes to mind.

Why was not a track examination/inspection undertaken of the subject length?  It is well known that track circuits can fail for a variety of reasons, including a broken rail.

The length was short and actually adjacent to an ARTC compound.  A couple of hours of overtime/callout could have adverted an accident costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and potentially (worst case) loss of life.

Happy resourcing,

John
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Just reading the report now, and an immediate question comes to mind.

Why was not a track examination/inspection undertaken of the subject length?  It is well known that track circuits can fail for a variety of reasons, including a broken rail.

The length was short and actually adjacent to an ARTC compound.  A couple of hours of overtime/callout could have adverted an accident costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and potentially (worst case) loss of life.
c3526blue
I think a bit of 'confirmation bias' played a part. From the report, the SigTech advised of rain and that served to reinforce his belief it was only an electrical problem.

That being said, I have stopped and inspected the points maybe a dozen times over the last 10 years before getting authority to pass a signal at stop, when the failure was within the point track circuit. On only one of those occasions did I actually find a fault - that being a broken bond - but more importantly is what I didn't find, a broken rail or other obstruction. Some network owners have this requirement written into their rulebooks...For precisely this reason!

Insofar as inspecting the points during the night, there was a case where two signal techs were hit and killed by a Down coal train at Singleton around 12 years ago, and one of the things to come out of the report was, in effect, "trains can still run, there was nothing that necessitated the inspection be done immediately at night, when it could have been deferred a few hours until daybreak"
  WimbledonW Train Controller

Location: Sydney
It is well known that track circuits can fail for a variety of reasons, including a broken rail.
On plain line, with a feed at one end and a track relay at the other end, most broken rails are detected, except for a break in the rail between the block joints and the place where the wiring is attached, say, 1 metre.

At turnouts, with one relay, 1 feed,  and at least 3 ends, full protection is not practical. The turnout is wired with the legs of the turnout in series-parallel. Where the wiring is parallel, a single broken rail will not be detected by the track circuit relay, because there are two paths in parallel. Two broken rails, one in each leg are needed to fail the relay, which is unlikely.

Fortunately, at Goulburn, the broken rail was in the series part of the track circuit, so the track circuit relay definitely failed.

Conversion of this track circuit to full series is easiest to do if there are TWO relays, one for each non-feed end. This is the safest, and if done at the time of construction is of marginal extra cost. Installing the extra relay as an afterthought requires more buried cables, for which trenches have to be dug up and recovered.

The words "Series" and "Parallel" do not appear in this thread, up to now, nor do they appear in the Official Report of the Goulburn accident.

Therefore one must conclude that this issue has not been considered as a means of preventing broken turnout rail accidents.

It is noted that axle counters, such as on the Southern Sydney Freight Line (SSFL) have axle counters throughout, and no broken rail detection is provided. A higher level of track inspection is therefore essential.

For diagram of Goulburn see: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR269.pdf . Does not show track circuits, however, nor loop length.

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