Watco wins GrainCorp's Queensland contract

 
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

Location: .
The diagram posted on the NRE site shows the same suspension arrangements as an 1100. The diagram seems to show the 5650 bogie frame as well.

Other than the 12 cylinder 645 as opposed to a 16 and the use of GE traction motors in place of refurbed EMD gear; you’re looking at a narrow gauge 1100 class or bog standard GT clone.

God speed is all I can say.

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  jmt Deputy Commissioner

The diagram posted on the NRE site shows the same suspension arrangements as an 1100. The diagram seems to show the 5650 bogie frame as well.

Other than the 12 cylinder 645 as opposed to a 16 and the use of GE traction motors in place of refurbed EMD gear; you’re looking at a narrow gauge 1100 class or bog standard GT clone.

God speed is all I can say.
The_trolley
The "GE" 764 traction motors will carry NRE plates, but will be from China, in all probability from Yongji Xinshisu Electric Equipment Co., Ltd.
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

Location: .
Is that the same China based supplier who has been supplying traction motors to KiwiRail for the past decade or so? I know the GE DX’s definitely and possibly some of the GM’s types as well have been recieving Chinese copy traction motors for some time now.

Speaking from experience with most things NRE, the refurbished genuine and copy components that make up the bulk of the locomotive won’t give trouble if they recieve adequate attention before being installed as part of the 75% copied from the EMD catalog (AR10, 645, what little EMD switchgear NRE uses etc). How the 25% drawn from NRE (generally the electrical system) is going to be interesting to watch though.
  GS4 Train Controller

https://www.nre.com/news/international-spotlight-new-class-locomotives-australia
Interesting, similar frame to that designed by NRE for the South African Grindrod phase 3

Grindrod built 4 x 3' gauge variants for NRE in 2015 (with 7FDL-12/AR10) for FDP in Colombia, these were sub 96 tonne
https://www.flickr.com/photos/agencianalinfraestructura/18526743330/in/album-72157652083279824/lightbox/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/agencianalinfraestructura/18091784854/in/album-72157652083279824/lightbox/
jmt
Hmmm, I looked at the side of the cab where it says "Buga" and immediately thought of the old Toyota Hilux advert ....
  GS4 Train Controller

ooops , forgot to ask , , are they AC or DC traction motors ?  I'm guessing DC.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Buga is a town in the area serviced by the FDP

The spec was 7FDL-12/AR10/764. NRE offer a Chinese clone "GE" 764 traction motor, NR-764
https://www.nre.com/parts/traction-motor   download the .pdf

761 is too wide for 36" track. Think of 764 as the equivalent to the CD-36 built by Clyde. EMD only built a single order with D-36 traction motors, in GR12 for Colombia.

Both Knoxville Loco Works and NRE offer patented bolt on front bearing carriers to convert the AR10 for use with GE and MTU (via ZF reduction box) engines
  neillfarmer Train Controller

ooops , forgot to ask , , are they AC or DC traction motors ?  I'm guessing DC.
GS4
GE764 traction motors are a DC machine. Those locos look like they are QR 23 class equivalents.
  Jack Le Lievre Chief Train Controller

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
News from NRE regarding the locomotive design for the Queensland Watco/GrainCorp contract.

https://www.nre.com/news/international-spotlight-new-class-locomotives-australia
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
News from NRE regarding the locomotive design for the Queensland Watco/GrainCorp contract.

https://www.nre.com/news/international-spotlight-new-class-locomotives-australia
Jack Le Lievre
The same link that was posted in this thread 8 days ago!
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

The latest news from GrainCorp's Facebook page this morning -


"New locomotives and wagons are coming to the GrainCorp network in Queensland later this year.
Engineered and built at National Rail and Equipment in Mt Vernon, Illinois, eight new 2175-horsepower locomotives are being developed specifically for Queensland’s narrow-gauge rail and weight limitations.
Each train will consist of a locomotive at the front and back of up to 42 wagons, with both locomotives ‘talking’ to each other via an electronic Wired Distributive Power system to ensure they work together efficiently.
The locos come equipped with N’compass software, providing GPS tracking while monitoring the running performance of each loco.
A digital tracking system will give GrainCorp site and terminal staff visibility (or SMS notifications) of arrival times.
On top of this, 128 GrainCorp-branded grain hopper wagons have begun assembly.
The wagons are bolted together from lightweight aluminium to get down to the axle loads permitted on Queensland’s rail lines. Each is watertight and carries a payload of 46.6 tonnes.
Two prototype wagons arrive in Queensland in May for testing – and we can't wait to see them!"



  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
128 wagons gives 3 x 42 wagon consists with 2 spare wagons. 2 locos per consist would require 6 locos, so there are 2 spare locos.
  M636C Minister for Railways

On top of this, 128 GrainCorp-branded grain hopper wagons have begun assembly.
The wagons are bolted together from lightweight aluminium to get down to the axle loads permitted on Queensland’s rail lines. Each is watertight and carries a payload of 46.6 tonnes.



Pacific National some years ago obtained two coal hoppers with aluminium body panels on a steel frame built in the USA.

These used "huckbolts" to attach the panels to the frame. these are basically very large pop rivets although they look a little like bolts....

I guess this is one of the ways they do things in the USA.

Peter
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
An interesting little snippet in the SDSR May 2019 Newsletter:

We are informed that they (Watco) have been successful in obtaining five 2100 class locos from South Africa that initially will be based here in Warwick. The locos will be checked over for mainline use in Queensland and painted in their company colours of black and yellow.
SDSR
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
An interesting little snippet in the SDSR May 2019 Newsletter:

We are informed that they (Watco) have been successful in obtaining five 2100 class locos from South Africa that initially will be based here in Warwick. The locos will be checked over for mainline use in Queensland and painted in their company colours of black and yellow.
Graham4405
re-importing locos, that's a tad funny
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

re-importing locos, that's a tad funny
Dangersdan707

Why?

Even with a round trip freight bill of around $225k per loco, will have been heaps cheaper to have rebuilt in SA using labour that earns less than coastal China rates, than rebuilding in Australia. I am surprised that more locos are not shipped offshore for rebuild.

Locos are in NRZ livery with modified coupler height. Zim deal went sour so resold. Weight for Zimbabwe would have been dropped to 96 tonnes.
  GS4 Train Controller

An interesting little snippet in the SDSR May 2019 Newsletter:

We are informed that they (Watco) have been successful in obtaining five 2100 class locos from South Africa that initially will be based here in Warwick. The locos will be checked over for mainline use in Queensland and painted in their company colours of black and yellow.
Graham4405
Could have swapped them for some EMU's !!

Smile
  GS4 Train Controller

???   Sooooooo are the NRE locos still coming ?  

I guess the 2100's could also be remanufactured into 2700's at Redbank.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

I guess the 2100's could also be remanufactured into 2700's at Redbank.
GS4
Get rapidly real.
Don't you look on US sites? Watco have well earned reputation as cheapskates, the El Zoro of US railroading.
They are a private company, surviving on borrowed capital, unlike G&W who are public, mid tier, with a shareholders base to call on for capital.
Watco's geriatric fleet of GP/SD 7 and 9 have the local foamers creaming their jeans.
The locos in SA have already been rebuilt for Progress Rail under subcontract at Boksburg.
Why would you rebuild a just rebuilt loco?

There are images of the units here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvgdWtXz974, skip the add, and a blowhard politician Open at 2:00
Also https://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/tmh-africa-unveils-rolling-stock-manufacturing-facility-2019-05-02

Also numerous photos on Facebook groups
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

???   Sooooooo are the NRE locos still coming ?  

I guess the 2100's could also be remanufactured into 2700's at Redbank.
GS4

The NRE locos are currently under construction with at least three frames underway at Paducah...the South African purchase just gets Watco on the ground running sooner, and probably provides more flexibility for growth with 13 locos on the books.
  M636C Minister for Railways

The locomotives illustrated in the video clip are 2250 class (including 2275).
These would be too heavy for many grain lines unless their weight has been reduced, by removal of ballast.

The good news is that they have the 12-645E3 engine proposed for the new  NREC locomotives....

Peter
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
The locomotives illustrated in the video clip are 2250 class (including 2275).
These would be too heavy for many grain lines unless their weight has been reduced, by removal of ballast.

The good news is that they have the 12-645E3 engine proposed for the new  NREC locomotives....

Peter
M636C
Perhaps they aren't the ones purchased by Watco Australia? There may be 2100s not shown in the video.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
An interesting little snippet in the SDSR May 2019 Newsletter:

We are informed that they (Watco) have been successful in obtaining five 2100 class locos from South Africa that initially will be based here in Warwick. The locos will be checked over for mainline use in Queensland and painted in their company colours of black and yellow.
Could have swapped them for some EMU's !!

Smile
GS4
Umm, Watco don't own any EMUs??
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

The 2250 contain around 14 tonnes of easily removable ballast. Redbank apparently cut plate and scrap rail to fit, rather than backing up a readymix concrete truck.

The 3 that TE are rebuilding for DP World (2257/2266/2270) are to have 11 tonnes removed, with a target weight of 99 tonnes. These will be metre gauge for use in Mali and Senegal.

The 5 rebuilt for PR at Boksburg (2260/2261/2262/2269/2275) are said to be down to 96 tonnes. Zimbabwe was the intended customer (hence the NRZ livery), so locos in the 96 tonne range would have matched their existing GT22LC-2 fleet.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Refer Motive Power #107 Sept/Oct 2016 for a list of numbers.

Transnet had imported 20 2250 as rebuild core for subsidiary Transnet Engineering in October 2014 (plus 14 2170 for use by Transnet Freight Rail).

These units were unsalable until Zuma was given the boot in February 2018. By selling the locos to a BEE while still on the wharf in Brisbane, then purchasing back ex wharf Durban, the cost was inflated from $220K to $500k per unit. The ANC cadre and apparatchiks managing Transnet pocketed around $200k kickback per loco. The core (with a book value of $500k/unit) was gracefully rusting away parked close to the beach at Wentworth (Durban), TE unable to get the rebuild price down to a competitive level.

One of incoming President Cyril Ramaphosa's first tasks was to sack the Zuma appointed Transnet board, and the senior apparatchiks (who were all members of Zuma's faction). The book value of their 2250 has now been written down to realistic levels.

$200K per loco was chicken feed to Zuma. CRRC (and predecessor companies) kicked back $US770k per loco on around 440 electrics and the 35 Diesels (20 imports plus 15 CKD kits) to Zuma's son Duduzane and Indian associates via front companies in Dubai. So there are rich pickings for politicians in South Africa as well as Malaysia.

If you follow South African activity on any of the SA railfan Facebook Groups, all of TFR's 2170 can be accounted for. Two cannibalised for parts (2174/2202) stored Bellville, 2 with the evaluation and test group at Pyramid South/Koedoespoort (2171/2210). The balance of 10 are allocated to the Bellville Shed at Cape Town for use over light track in the Western Cape. At least 4 of the Bellville locos are currently at Koedoespoort on hold for potential hire to NRZ (2177/2180/2188 plus one other).

The balance of the corporate owned ex Qld GL26C/GL22C (and those resold to countries to the north) are accounted for, SAFLog have  6, Rovos 9, Makomo Resources (Zim) 4,  SCTP (DRC) 2, Plus 2156/2162 thought to be with track contractor Moto-Engil in Moz/Malawi.

BEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment
  GS4 Train Controller

I guess the 2100's could also be remanufactured into 2700's at Redbank.
Get rapidly real.
Don't you look on US sites?
jmt
Well no , not much .............  Smile

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