XPT replacement thread 2019

 
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
New thread created (old thread too large to split) to continue discussion.  There is a seperate  "desal and water thread as well. Original thread was:

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11368621-0-asc-s2175.htm

the last page relates to this thread.

dthead- moderator
================================================





...  I know that all hunter line sets are 2 car services currently which is why I'm suggesting that the endeavour fleet will continue on this line. These services may expand beyond 2 cars in the future but they are for all intents and purposes a suburban type service rather then a regional service.
I'm not as familiar with the Hunter SWT as the other DMU routes.  I was under the impression some of the upper hunter services were 4 car trains, but that appears not to be the case.  

I'm pretty sure the current published timetable requires 7 concurrent train sets to fulfill.  Newcastle Interchange -> Telarah is 41min, and the base timetable uses 4 trains on this to provide a 30min freq service.  3 trains are needed concurrently to go to Scone (x2) and Dungong (x1).

With skip stopping, this is cut to 35 min which means a 90min out and back cycle is possible, and only 3 trains required to fulfill the timeable.

It *should* be possible to make a timetable that only uses 6 of the 7 Hunter sets without any noticeable change in service standards.
djf01
It would be very tight if one set was down the way things are ATM, there's a new TT coming out soon, to go with the NW service, meaning new connections.  The Peak hours take up extra set needs especially the Scone service, and talk of extensions to Singleton are a big possibility as well.

A6et

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  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Does anyone know at what stage of production is the XPT replacement? Still on the drawing board? Are the carriages in a Spanish factory being fabricated -keeping the Spaniards employed? Are they on a dock waiting for a ship? If the XPTs were a horse, the RSPCA would get involved, because they have been flogged even in their life after death...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Does anyone know at what stage of production is the XPT replacement? Still on the drawing board? Are the carriages in a Spanish factory being fabricated -keeping the Spaniards employed? Are they on a dock waiting for a ship? If the XPTs were a horse, the RSPCA would get involved, because they have been flogged even in their life after death...
ANR

The order was only given last month just before the election. So it is probably just put in to the order book for parts to be ordered.

since dthead started a new thread. This is the train we are talking about. https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/regional-rail
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Does anyone know at what stage of production is the XPT replacement? Still on the drawing board? Are the carriages in a Spanish factory being fabricated -keeping the Spaniards employed? Are they on a dock waiting for a ship? If the XPTs were a horse, the RSPCA would get involved, because they have been flogged even in their life after death...

The order was only given last month just before the election. So it is probably just put in to the order book for parts to be ordered.

since dthead started a new thread. This is the train we are talking about. https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/regional-rail
simstrain
Seem to be falling for the same waste of space trap of doors at each end of the carriage.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Seem to be falling for the same waste of space trap of doors at each end of the carriage.


Since the same body is being used for Endeavour replacement as Explorer and XPT replacement, the doors at each end are necessary for passenger flow in outer suburban traffic. The loss of four seats (or three in first class) is not significant for long distance services.


Peter
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It is a regional train RTT. Not a big deal to have the doors there. In fact it is ideal for a regional service.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner


WARNING: Foaming Thread

Since this thread has derailed into a discussion of how to fit out a CountryLink overnight interstate train (a NSW topic), I decided to start this thread to allow that thread of mine to serve its original intended purpose or die, as per the Raichase Thread Derailment Mitigation Procedure (RTDMP).

Now, as for the actual topic at hand, the question is, 'How do we replace the XPT?' The power cars are creeping into the 'clapped out' zone, and something has to be done.

We have a number of options at this juncture, and it's quite open as RailCorp is broken up into separate entities and not just separate brands. I shall now begin the Dribbly Foamer Mode (DFM) and start rambling on how to replace the XPT. For simplicity's sake, I'll call it XPT2. (I will do the Xplorers/Xploders soon.)
Watson385

I just thought it's probably worth repeating the original version of this thread when started ... 7 (yes, seven) years ago.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
It is a regional train RTT. Not a big deal to have the doors there. In fact it is ideal for a regional service.
simstrain
Point was some European trains have dispensed with the 2nd door on each car to allow another row of seats to be added, usually diagonally opposite.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It is a regional train RTT. Not a big deal to have the doors there. In fact it is ideal for a regional service.
Point was some European trains have dispensed with the 2nd door on each car to allow another row of seats to be added, usually diagonally opposite.
RTT_Rules

Don't need to do that in regional NSW and for OH&S reasons it is unlikely to get the green light.

As for sleepers they could always be added later if need be. I think that going to 8 cars could be an option. This new train could stop at picton and other southern highlands stops such as bowral without slowing the travel time down to much.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

It is a regional train RTT. Not a big deal to have the doors there. In fact it is ideal for a regional service.
Point was some European trains have dispensed with the 2nd door on each car to allow another row of seats to be added, usually diagonally opposite.

Don't need to do that in regional NSW and for OH&S reasons it is unlikely to get the green light.

As for sleepers they could always be added later if need be. I think that going to 8 cars could be an option. This new train could stop at picton and other southern highlands stops such as bowral without slowing the travel time down to much.
simstrain
Sleepers should be added now, not later... There are situations and circumstances which will make their use ideal, on all services, but especially interstate - some people will be prepared to pay for this isolation, that they could not otherwise get on a plane or bus or other public space... e.g. parents with difficult children, children with difficult parents, people with zero or low immune systems that need to travel, people who just want to shut out noise over a long distance...e.g. elderly etc. The NSW govt should stop this pathetic, quibbling over pennies and provide the right infrastructure... Who is it going to impress? People who want a new football stadium?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I suspect the govt has looked at the bookings for sleepers and decided for the cost it's simply not a feasible option and special needs numbers too few. Also probably why they were not included the first time round and why the Qld also removed them in its CTT.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

More likely it has something to do with putting more seats in a train then saving pennies ANR. A good first class seat will be just as comfortable if not more so then a sleeper.
  Travelling Hooker Locomotive Driver

Location: Follows the weather up and down the coast
In theory that would work, like biz on QF where the overnight flights are fairly civilised, but this is Countrylink, sorry Trainlink or whatever the name is this month, and there's always some unwashed, burping farting bozo in his grimmy Y fronts thinking it's okay to chat on his mobile at 11.30pm a la railbeds on the S.O.Q.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
More likely it has something to do with putting more seats in a train then saving pennies ANR. A good first class seat will be just as comfortable if not more so then a sleeper.
simstrain
And if CountryNSWLinkTrainCorp was keeping sleepers on the new XPT replacement trains you'd be arguing why it was a great decision to keep them and that all you out-of-staters don't understand that NSW is special and different and needs sleepers on its long distance services.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

More likely it has something to do with putting more seats in a train then saving pennies ANR. A good first class seat will be just as comfortable if not more so then a sleeper.
And if CountryNSWLinkTrainCorp was keeping sleepers on the new XPT replacement trains you'd be arguing why it was a great decision to keep them and that all you out-of-staters don't understand that NSW is special and different and needs sleepers on its long distance services.
LancedDendrite

Not really. Never used one and never intend to. The sleeper car in day tripper mode is a much nicer proposition however. I prefer a nice comfortable lounge then a small cramped bed any day.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

It is a regional train RTT. Not a big deal to have the doors there. In fact it is ideal for a regional service.
Point was some European trains have dispensed with the 2nd door on each car to allow another row of seats to be added, usually diagonally opposite.

Don't need to do that in regional NSW and for OH&S reasons it is unlikely to get the green light.

As for sleepers they could always be added later if need be. I think that going to 8 cars could be an option. This new train could stop at picton and other southern highlands stops such as bowral without slowing the travel time down to much.
simstrain
The two versions of the qld tilt trains don't have 2 doors on each car.  Some cars have 2 on each side but some of the cars have only 1, means 1 extra row and it still works well.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Rather than quietly remove sleeper class from a replacement XPT service [in the dead of night], how about doing something like in the link below (even though that is a specialised service). Have one carriage on each intercapital service with a different combo of compartments. If this is offered in a 7 hr 30min journey in the UK, what are we doing cutting it on a 15 hour journey to/from Brisvegas?

Just another example of how politicians and public servants [who are offered ridiculous incentives to] remove long established public assets and doing it in a way that does not get any media attention....



https://youtu.be/T3v0l38vF28
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

It is a regional train RTT. Not a big deal to have the doors there. In fact it is ideal for a regional service.
Point was some European trains have dispensed with the 2nd door on each car to allow another row of seats to be added, usually diagonally opposite.

Don't need to do that in regional NSW and for OH&S reasons it is unlikely to get the green light.

As for sleepers they could always be added later if need be. I think that going to 8 cars could be an option. This new train could stop at picton and other southern highlands stops such as bowral without slowing the travel time down to much.
The two versions of the qld tilt trains don't have 2 doors on each car.  Some cars have 2 on each side but some of the cars have only 1, means 1 extra row and it still works well.
tazzer96

That's just because those Qld trains are little more than G Scale models, and you can't fit more than a dozen (small) people in a "normal" carriage. /s
  a6et Minister for Railways

More likely it has something to do with putting more seats in a train then saving pennies ANR. A good first class seat will be just as comfortable if not more so then a sleeper.
And if CountryNSWLinkTrainCorp was keeping sleepers on the new XPT replacement trains you'd be arguing why it was a great decision to keep them and that all you out-of-staters don't understand that NSW is special and different and needs sleepers on its long distance services.

Not really. Never used one and never intend to. The sleeper car in day tripper mode is a much nicer proposition however. I prefer a nice comfortable lounge then a small cramped bed any day.
simstrain
Sims, I think you have shot yourself in the foot re your above bit
The sleeper car in day tripper mode is a much nicer proposition however.

Having carriages available for night or sleepers only is very much old hat in this day and age of train travel, the old o/night trains had a certain number of sleeping cars as well as sitting, some of both being quite comfortable, others well, debatable at best.


I would say having just the one sleeper/day sitter carriage is a fair idea really, and while I have not been in the sleepers on the XPT have been in them in old days and overseas, they allow for those wanting to use them at the additional cost.  Problem I see though is that its not unusual to see the XPT at capacity in the sitting cars while the sleeping cars may have perhaps two people/compartments in use.  In such cases if the demand is there then the non used sleeping compartments can be reset to the day tripper mode for those in need of seating.


The new trains and services has the potential to increase patronage and the more options (up to a point) are wise moves I believe.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

i didn't shoot myself in the foot. I suggested that a seat as comfortable as the day tripper mode lounge should be good day or night.

Make a lounge seat in 2+1 configuration with recline should be more then enough for the distances travelled.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

What was the Explorer doing replacing the Dubbo XPT today?

Who needed the XPT set?

Who was missing an XPL?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

What was the Explorer doing replacing the Dubbo XPT today?

Who needed the XPT set?

Who was missing an XPL?
ANR

An Xplorer often replaces the dubbo set when their isn't enough XPT power cars. Normally it takes the broken hill / griffith set.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

What was the Explorer doing replacing the Dubbo XPT today?

Who needed the XPT set?

Who was missing an XPL?

An Xplorer often replaces the dubbo set when their isn't enough XPT power cars. Normally it takes the broken hill / griffith set.
simstrain
XPs were back today... Order has been restored to the universe.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It happens quite a lot ANR and if the liberal and labor parties had ordered some more sets in the 90's then the dubbo service would probably be 100% Xplorer and the XP's might not be as clapped out as they are.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
It happens quite a lot ANR and if the liberal and labor parties had ordered some more sets in the 90's then the dubbo service would probably be 100% Xplorer and the XP's might not be as clapped out as they are.
simstrain
Or an extra set of Hunter's ordered to enable permanent displacement of a XPL to the Dubbo line.

....Or Or solve the real problem, order another XPT loco as the XPT fleet has plenty of spare cars, replacing the XPT with an XPL just see's more rolling stock laying idle.

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