Is it time to bring back the Southern Aurora?

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Where would you need NG RTT.

He’s been brainwashed by DD707 and recognises the need to call everything other than the One True Gauge “narrow”.
potatoinmymouth
Typo- I meant SG

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  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Where would you need NG RTT. The southern aurora is Sydney to Melbourne and vice versa.
simstrain
The Narrow Gauge From Melbourne to Sydney of course! awaiting conversion
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
The Southern Aurora is not coming back, it would cost too much for the rolling stock and too much to subsidise and no one would use it. An overnight XPT however or some overnight venture using soon redundant (but refurbished) SG N sets for a bear bones overnight service however could work.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Is this thread still going?
I think the answer To the original question is NO.
It would be nice ,but if it was a money making venture I'm sure it would have been started by now .
This thread should be called "if's and but's " or keep dreaming
Richard stroker

Now settle right down or I'll start another in the 10 year series of why there should be a passenger train to Mildura.

M.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Is this thread still going?
I think the answer To the original question is NO.
It would be nice ,but if it was a money making venture I'm sure it would have been started by now .
This thread should be called "if's and but's " or keep dreaming
Richard stroker
"Money making" is not relevant.  If rail services had to make money, they would all be shut down by now.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

True to an extent, but the present day V/Line subsidy is what, $23/passenger? It’s easy enough to see how the state gets a return on that investment. The higher that figure goes, the more questionable the economics become.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Where would you need NG RTT. The southern aurora is Sydney to Melbourne and vice versa.
I think he was talking Dangerdan's language.   The only true gauge ... etc
Donald

Wouldn't that be BG and if that is the only true gauge then god help us.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Where would you need NG RTT. The southern aurora is Sydney to Melbourne and vice versa.
The Narrow Gauge From Melbourne to Sydney of course! awaiting conversion
Dangersdan707

I don't think so. Your BG will be mostly gone in the next half century.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Maybe you should buy an XPT set when they are replaced for your personal use from Mildura to Melbourne Vinelander?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Is this thread still going?
I think the answer To the original question is NO.
It would be nice ,but if it was a money making venture I'm sure it would have been started by now .
This thread should be called "if's and but's " or keep dreaming

Now settle right down or I'll start another in the 10 year series of why there should be a passenger train to Mildura.

M.
The Vinelander
Aaahh smeg no ....  please dont
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I don't think so. Your BG will be mostly gone in the next half century.
simstrain

Eh, there’s Buckley’s of the suburban network being standardised.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I don't think so. Your BG will be mostly gone in the next half century.

Eh, there’s Buckley’s of the suburban network being standardised.
potatoinmymouth
I think even Sim's knows that the Mel Suburban network will not be gauge converted.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I don't think so. Your BG will be mostly gone in the next half century.

Eh, there’s Buckley’s of the suburban network being standardised.
I think even Sim's knows that the Mel Suburban network will not be gauge converted.
RTT_Rules
correct I was talking about everywhere else outside of Melbourne. Melbourne will essentially have 2 networks. One for suburban and one for SG freight.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I don't think so. Your BG will be mostly gone in the next half century.

Eh, there’s Buckley’s of the suburban network being standardised.
I think even Sim's knows that the Mel Suburban network will not be gauge converted.
correct I was talking about everywhere else outside of Melbourne. Melbourne will essentially have 2 networks. One for suburban and one for SG freight.
simstrain
heh heh I Very Much Doubt that anything east of Spencers Street will be standardised same with the Ballarat line
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
More overnight sleeper trains in Europe.

https://www.nightjet.com/en/angebote/nightjet-nach-oesterreich
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I don't think so. Your BG will be mostly gone in the next half century.

Eh, there’s Buckley’s of the suburban network being standardised.
I think even Sim's knows that the Mel Suburban network will not be gauge converted.
correct I was talking about everywhere else outside of Melbourne. Melbourne will essentially have 2 networks. One for suburban and one for SG freight.
heh heh I Very Much Doubt that anything east of Spencers Street will be standardised same with the Ballarat line
Dangersdan707
Ballarat, bendigo, seymour, warrnambool and swan hill will all go SG at some time. SG vlocities are just as likely to make it happen much quicker then you expect. At the very least there will be an SG line that will parallel the BG in those areas in time purely for making the freight connections.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Ballarat, bendigo, seymour, warrnambool and swan hill will all go SG at some time. SG vlocities are just as likely to make it happen much quicker then you expect. At the very least there will be an SG line that will parallel the BG in those areas in time purely for making the freight connections.
simstrain

Don’t delude yourself. The chance of an SG line being built parallel to any of the lines you mention is absolutely tiny, if not zero.

Conversion-wise:

Ballarat: never, cf. interface with suburban, Geelong, Airport services etc.

Bendigo: not in the next 20 years. Despite what some people on here and John Hearsch wish, the Clarkefield diversion is dead, and Bendigo will be sharing tracks with other BG services for a good while.

Seymour: possible, but there will have to be a solution to the lack of SG capacity into Melbourne.

Warrnambool: never. Huge expense for absolutely zero gain.

Swan Hill: see Bendigo. More likely scenario is cessation of freight altogether. Only way you’re getting SG is with some sort of funky link via Inglewood, I.e. snowflake’s chance in hell.

The essential problem now with gauge in Victoria is that the low-hanging fruit - isolated, lightly trafficked lines without passenger service - is gone. Anything else from now is going to have a serious impact on commuter-belt passenger services, unless you want gauge islands, and many of the available options are hopelessly entangled with other lines.

The other question is of what benefits, if any, exist to further standardisation. Apart from everything west of Ballarat - inevitable in the medium term really but relatively small in the grand scheme of things - standardising any combination or part of Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Echuca (either way), or Bairnsdale is going to seriously jeopardise the viability of the remaining BG freight. No government will want to be opening a shiny “upgraded” line to, say, Deniliquin via Seymour while the papers yell about thousands of extra truck journeys being created by the cessation of all BG freight.

Add the fact that the last two standardisation projects have been a PR nightmare and I don’t think there is any political will to make the 165mm move any time soon in Victoria.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Well summed up PIMM...however I'd like to see at least a third track to/from Sunbury to say...St Albans especially if the Clarkefield option is dead. This will help to alleviate the congestion under the wires, particularly as service frequency and inevitably maximum speeds on the Bendigo line inevitably increase.

Mike.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Mike, back to the question, and in the format proposed, short answer is a definitive no.
For the multitude of reasons listed by others previously.

As you have suggested heritage organisations likely read here periodically, the only hope for the rail enthusiast or those seeking a nostalgic fix, would be someone like the RTM to run a service O/N for a couple of days, testing the waters. As a special event.
Have several friends in Melbourne, train O/N one way fly or XPT the other. Sign me up.

Edit. I have used 3801ltd trains for a more expensive but much preferred form of public on multiple occasions in the past.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
This car set just do a Sydney Broken Hill run.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Yes it is... however the opportunities in New South Wales going forward for this set to be in any kind of use is extremely limited..

Mike.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey


#DreamBig - Something this country has forgotten how to do.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line


#DreamBig - Something this country has forgotten how to do.
x31

Oh well...we are a few years behind...but that will change.

What goes around, comes around.

Mike.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out


#DreamBig - Something this country has forgotten how to do.

Oh well...we are a few years behind...but that will change.

What goes around, comes around.

Mike.
The Vinelander
It's actually one of the few sleeper trains left or going to be left in Europe in the next 5 years.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
If a sleeper train were to be provided between Sydney & Melbourne, something along the lines of the Caledonian Sleeper would be the way to go. Full service, CBD to CBD utilising new, luxurious rollingstock running express at between 160 & 130km/h for most of the journey and running 6 days a week. It would need to leave Melbourne after 9:30pm and arrive in Sydney before 8am (and vice versa). Prices would need to be competitive with Airline Business Class fares.

This would not be possible with old Southern Aurora Rollingstock.

Of course, you could still call it Southern Aurora.

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