Ad Met goings on -

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
There’s quite some drilling, cutting and concreting to be done at the down end of the works. I imagine much of the three week shut down is concrete curing time.

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  mawsonboii Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
Bit bored spending my night looking around on Google maps at areas I've lived in and looking at whats changed. I was looking at Port Adelaide and the proposed "Port Dock" line and I had a though.

Since our Government loves wasting money on rebuilding infrastructure they demolished only a few decades ago, Why not go for it and build a new train station near Grand Junction Road, call it "Rosewater". it will connect half a dozen people to the train Outer Harbor and Port Dock lines as well Trains to the CBD. Now I know that busses connect people already to Port Adelaide, The City etc, but if you're spending the money on one unnecessary station why not build two.

in fact here is an even better idea and I think many of you will agree that this will be very much worth the millions of dollars it will cost to build.

Run the train straight down to the Port River like it use to, but then build a new rail bridge over the river then run the train along side Victoria Rd all the way down to Outer Harbor where it links up to the existing OH line and does a loop. Imagine all the new unnecessary stations and crossings you could build.
  CPH8 Locomotive Driver

Not close enough to the next State election for that one!
  mawsonboii Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
Not close enough to the next State election for that one!
CPH8
hahaha
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Track installation has started on the parts of the Oaklands Crossing underpass which don't need to wait for old infrastructure to be removed and final retaining walls built during the shutdown.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Took a train to Blackwood today with visitors and had a leisurely walk through the town centre before taking the train back to the city @ Glenalta. The 3000's that we took today seemed to have had something different about their diesel engines to my ear - can any Railpager tell me if the 3000's have been newly fitted recently.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
Took a train to Blackwood today with visitors and had a leisurely walk through the town centre before taking the train back to the city @ Glenalta. The 3000's that we took today seemed to have had something different about their diesel engines to my ear - can any Railpager tell me if the 3000's have been newly fitted recently.
don_dunstan
There is an on-going programme of railcar upgrades including re-engining and modified control system which started last year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chEjWDL6s10.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

One of the things I have enjoyed in Adelaide has been the ability to look out of the front windows at the track ahead, even better on the Jumbos. I notice that pleasure has been removed and all the cab windows are now opaque on the passenger side. Is this for any particular reason, it is not as if we can watch the driver, who remains hidden?
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

I was told but do not know if it is true though that this was done so if they hit something or somebody no one will witness it. Like I said it might be a load of old cobblers, but there is a reason for it I imagine.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

That sounds like speculation to me.

My guess is that it would be due to formalising the long-standing practice of drivers and PSA/security treating the section opposite the cab as a secure area, even for cabs further back in the train.

It has been many years since I last saw one of those areas open to the public like it used to be.
  mawsonboii Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
anyone know what's happening with this apparent "transport overhaul" the tiser was talking about?
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

anyone know what's happening with this apparent "transport overhaul" the tiser was talking about?
mawsonboii
Read more cuts coming.  Cool
  mawsonboii Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
anyone know what's happening with this apparent "transport overhaul" the tiser was talking about?
Read more cuts coming.  Cool
DJPeters
Couldn't read the article which is why I asked about it here, and Yeah I assumed it was more cost cutting.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Whilst the article implies potential adversity towards low patronage, would the government be pleased if even 15% of folks used PT (eg in peak)? I'm sure more services would be the last thing the DPTI would want to pay for, and it's essentially just a vote grabber to a tiny degree at least.

The government could abandon Adelaide PT entirely and I'm sure less than 25% of the population Adelaide would even care to be honest. PT doesn't make money, which is why there are no plans to increase services and kilometres. I'm sure the councils would compensate to a small degree by providing weekly mini buses for those in need of it.

Suburban services are the last remaining remnants of what was once a fairly decent PT system throughout the whole state.
  mawsonboii Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
Whilst the article implies potential adversity towards low patronage, would the government be pleased if even 15% of folks used PT (eg in peak)? I'm sure more services would be the last thing the DPTI would want to pay for, and it's essentially just a vote grabber to a tiny degree at least.

The government could abandon Adelaide PT entirely and I'm sure less than 25% of the population Adelaide would even care to be honest. PT doesn't make money, which is why there are no plans to increase services and kilometres. I'm sure the councils would compensate to a small degree by providing weekly mini buses for those in need of it.

Suburban services are the last remaining remnants of what was once a fairly decent PT system throughout the whole state.
ARG706
abandon PT? I am pretty sure more than 25% of the state would be angry lol.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I imagine, though, that many would be quite pleased if the state government walked away from crap bus routes or cut out the crap bits of otherwise decent bus routes.

Let's take the 601, specifically the Marion-Blackwood sector (the 601 is a hybrid bus route combining three separate sections) which was formerly the 739, as an example. This route takes 35 minutes to cover what would be 7.5km by the direct route, because it spends over 15 minutes diverting into the back streets of Bellevue Heights to serve Resthaven (which should really be catered for by Resthaven leasing a car or 12 seater to provide a shuttle service for their residents) and diverting around Flinders University (which should be replaced by an enhanced Tonsley-FMC-Uni shuttle/loop bus).

During the ex-739 sector of the 601, the bus spends around 45% of the time not travelling towards the destination! But cut out these diversions and it would be very different, as the 35 minute ordeal would become a 15 minute trip providing direct access to Westfield Marion with the convenience of not having to worry about finding a car park. It might even be attractive enough to win some level of modal shift.

A suitable method of reforming Adelaide bus services would be to annually identify for review the top five (bottom five?) routes which have the largest proportion of time spent travelling in directions other than towards the destination, and the five routes with the largest proportion of time spent travelling on council streets instead of main roads.

Focus on 'mainline' routes which serve the largest markets and get the most people out of their cars.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

A couple of items in the media today:

InDaily is saying Knoll's feeder bus plan won't work. InDaily is quite well connected with the state branch of the Liberal Party, so this points towards the end result being very little change at all.
https://indaily.com.au/opinion/2019/04/29/why-stephan-knolls-public-transport-plan-wont-work/

The Advertiser is reporting that the FlindersLink project has now received development approval, but the project budget has blown out from $85M to $125M before any physical work has been done. It looks like being quite a hike from any bus stop to the Flinders station, so don't expect this to feature in any plans for a recast of the bus network unless buses are rerouted to Clovelly Park (to be renamed Tonsley) station.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/tonsley-rail-line-extension-to-flinders-to-be-complete-next-year-price-tag-blows-out-to-125m/news-story/09e25037bc10022a98742829746fb646
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
I imagine, though, that many would be quite pleased if the state government walked away from crap bus routes or cut out the crap bits of otherwise decent bus routes.

Let's take the 601, specifically the Marion-Blackwood sector (the 601 is a hybrid bus route combining three separate sections) which was formerly the 739, as an example. This route takes 35 minutes to cover what would be 7.5km by the direct route, because it spends over 15 minutes diverting into the back streets of Bellevue Heights to serve Resthaven (which should really be catered for by Resthaven leasing a car or 12 seater to provide a shuttle service for their residents) and diverting around Flinders University (which should be replaced by an enhanced Tonsley-FMC-Uni shuttle/loop bus).

During the ex-739 sector of the 601, the bus spends around 45% of the time not travelling towards the destination! But cut out these diversions and it would be very different, as the 35 minute ordeal would become a 15 minute trip providing direct access to Westfield Marion with the convenience of not having to worry about finding a car park. It might even be attractive enough to win some level of modal shift.

A suitable method of reforming Adelaide bus services would be to annually identify for review the top five (bottom five?) routes which have the largest proportion of time spent travelling in directions other than towards the destination, and the five routes with the largest proportion of time spent travelling on council streets instead of main roads.

Focus on 'mainline' routes which serve the largest markets and get the most people out of their cars.
justapassenger

Well said buddy.

One of the most annoying things about bus travel in Adelaide is when the bus decides to leave the main road and start twisting and turning through the back streets trying to service every nursing home and primary school along the way in the general direction of its destination. It is rather fascinating seeing the stressed bus driver battle with the steering wheel, an action that makes a game of twister look like childs play, but on a serious note, if we want to make public transport more usable for the car addicted masses, then we really need to seriously look at cutting out and straightening out all the higgledy piggledy bus routes.

If we do that then unfortunately we are going to be bombarded with a current affair sob stories about how poor old Nancy, who has worked hard all her life, is going to have to wait an extra 5 long minutes to catch her bus to lawn bowls. Today tonight will also run a story about how Graham the autistic man now has to make a tight connection and catch an extra bus to Bingo, his only social activity of the week. Four corners will also report on how Suzy the tired single parent will now be forced to walk an extra 10 minutes in searing heat and pouring rain, to get her 3 special needs children to kindergarten on time and not be late.

In all honesty some we win some we lose some we dont...
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I have wondered if the current radial system serves us well.

Canadian cities such as Toronto have grid systems with buses travelling north south and west east along main roads and with the major radial routes such as the rail and obahn network.

Users are expected to change vehicles, something Adelaide users seem very loath to do.    In theory you can travel between any 2 points with a maximum of 2 vehicle changes.

But this approach means frequent services, perhaps at the most every 15 minutes, on all the grid routes and on the radial routes.     I cannot see it as saving money, rather costing more.

As justapassenger says, at the very least it would be worth looking at the more outlying suburbs and rejigging the services.

Take the Aberfoyle Park, Flagstaff Hill and Happy Valley services via Flagstaff Road.      The stop at the Black Road roundabout is around 37, near me 3 km later on Taylors Road it is 52 with bus wandering all over the suburbs to get to a terminus at the southern end of the suburb.

Why not turn it around and put the terminus at the northern end, say the Flagstaff Hill Shopping Centre, and running a shuttle from there south?

The services seem to me to be organised on "the all things to all people" basis (and therefore useless or inconvenient to most people).
  normangerman Junior Train Controller

Test train at the new Oaklands station



https://youtu.be/s5s4vpWcehA
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Take the Aberfoyle Park, Flagstaff Hill and Happy Valley services via Flagstaff Road.      The stop at the Black Road roundabout is around 37, near me 3 km later on Taylors Road it is 52 with bus wandering all over the suburbs to get to a terminus at the southern end of the suburb.

Why not turn it around and put the terminus at the northern end, say the Flagstaff Hill Shopping Centre, and running a shuttle from there south?

The services seem to me to be organised on "the all things to all people" basis (and therefore useless or inconvenient to most people).
kipioneer
That was actually tried during the early years of the Rann/Weatherill government, in one of just three instances where that government actually planned bus services (the others were the addition of Gawler local buses and the sustained effort to break the taxi monopoly and introduce the JetBus services to Adelaide Airport) instead of simply oiling squeaky wheels.

The T219 (previously TL1, now G22X) was extended to run to/from the city all day, with the 618 (now 320) running to Marion every half hour and offering connections to the T219 at Aberfoyle Hub and Flagstaff Hill. Normal 218 buses ran the normal city services at night and on weekends. There was also a local shuttle 690 which did an out-and-back loop to/from the Hub.

Unfortunately there was a lot of pushback - led by local traders at the Hub - and the squeaky wheels were oiled as usual.
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Take the Aberfoyle Park, Flagstaff Hill and Happy Valley services via Flagstaff Road.      The stop at the Black Road roundabout is around 37, near me 3 km later on Taylors Road it is 52 with bus wandering all over the suburbs to get to a terminus at the southern end of the suburb.

Why not turn it around and put the terminus at the northern end, say the Flagstaff Hill Shopping Centre, and running a shuttle from there south?

The services seem to me to be organised on "the all things to all people" basis (and therefore useless or inconvenient to most people).
That was actually tried during the early years of the Rann/Weatherill government, in one of just three instances where that government actually planned bus services (the others were the addition of Gawler local buses and the sustained effort to break the taxi monopoly and introduce the JetBus services to Adelaide Airport) instead of simply oiling squeaky wheels.

The T219 (previously TL1, now G22X) was extended to run to/from the city all day, with the 618 (now 320) running to Marion every half hour and offering connections to the T219 at Aberfoyle Hub and Flagstaff Hill. Normal 218 buses ran the normal city services at night and on weekends. There was also a local shuttle 690 which did an out-and-back loop to/from the Hub.

Unfortunately there was a lot of pushback - led by local traders at the Hub - and the squeaky wheels were oiled as usual.
justapassenger
What were the reasons behind the local Hub traders getting upset at this bus service change ?
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Take the Aberfoyle Park, Flagstaff Hill and Happy Valley services via Flagstaff Road.      The stop at the Black Road roundabout is around 37, near me 3 km later on Taylors Road it is 52 with bus wandering all over the suburbs to get to a terminus at the southern end of the suburb.

Why not turn it around and put the terminus at the northern end, say the Flagstaff Hill Shopping Centre, and running a shuttle from there south?

The services seem to me to be organised on "the all things to all people" basis (and therefore useless or inconvenient to most people).
That was actually tried during the early years of the Rann/Weatherill government, in one of just three instances where that government actually planned bus services (the others were the addition of Gawler local buses and the sustained effort to break the taxi monopoly and introduce the JetBus services to Adelaide Airport) instead of simply oiling squeaky wheels.

The T219 (previously TL1, now G22X) was extended to run to/from the city all day, with the 618 (now 320) running to Marion every half hour and offering connections to the T219 at Aberfoyle Hub and Flagstaff Hill. Normal 218 buses ran the normal city services at night and on weekends. There was also a local shuttle 690 which did an out-and-back loop to/from the Hub.

Unfortunately there was a lot of pushback - led by local traders at the Hub - and the squeaky wheels were oiled as usual.
What were the reasons behind the local Hub traders getting upset at this bus service change ?
Heath Loxton
I would think a perceived lack of opportunity to sell commuters stuff.

Judging by the number of vehicles in the Hub Shopping Centre car park and the Flagstaff Hill Shopping Centre car park I would say that there is a fairly large commuter component in these car parks.  

The service as outlined by justapassenger would much better serve the area with the trunk service to the city and feeder services to that trunk service.    It would give a higher frequency and hence more be attractive than the present hourly off-peak service if you live, as I do, beyond the Sunnymeade Drive - Hub Drive intersection.

My bus service - G20 - besides being hourly off-peak, travels over twice the distance from stop 52 on Taylors Road West to the stop 34 on Flagstaff Road, as I would if I drive, and takes considerably longer.    You get the grand tour of Aberfoyle Park and the southern part of Flagstaff Hill.     It takes more than twice the time to get to the city as it does to drive in off-peak.

OK - with feeder services you have to change vehicles but if the interchange is convenient and has basic amenities then this is a minor inconvenience.

As far as I can see very few of Adelaide's interchanges have decent amenities.   More recent railway stations including the outer stations on the Seaford line are an exception - at least they have toilets, while there is a sometimes open kiosk at Noarlunga Centre and Mawson Lakes.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
What do you mean by the kiosk at Noarlunga? The AdelaideMetro hole in the wall whose only purpose is to waste taxpayer funds on wages? Or the deli thing on the platform that is open most of the day, and derives most of its income from the bus drivers using the interchange and layover?

While on the subject of over served southern suburbs, does Hallett Cove qualify as the most over served suburb in Adelaide?

Does the 720 need to run a route as long and poorly used as The Overland? The ‘shopping centre all stopper’ from Reynella to the city via Hallett Cove and Marion, could the planners not notice that it goes right by Castle Plaza, surely it could loop that car park too? Thank god they couldn’t work out how to route it past Kurralta Park...

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