Bob Hawke dies age 89

 
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I'm guessing Mr. Dunstan of the local parish is popping the cork on a bottle of champers right about now...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-16/bob-hawke-dies-former-australian-prime-minister-and-labor-leader/6562902?fbclid=IwAR3W3Vx9iZO0vrd2YPYn5j6aVn4s3FPkmvhGFeGi_12OVclHBEly-R9g1E0

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  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Tapped out just in time to avoid the possible impending alleged death tax?

I don’t celebrate people passing, but this is one less we have to pay for. Now we just have to wait for all the others to drop off their perch.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Shame, certainly one of two better PM's this country has had in my lifetime.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

While Bob (aka King Bonza) did a lot of good things and was in many ways one of our better PMs, part of his downfall and significant weakness was his close relationships with somewhat shady plutocrats like Alan Bond, Sir Peter Abeles, and others.

Not many PMs can say they won 4 elections in a row. A different era.
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
I think that Bob Hawke will be remembered by the community as a whole as a person that progressed change by taking the community with him, by consensus.

I remember as a kid his employment summit that had union leadership, business, leaders of various groups (eg farmers,social security advocates, welfare, etc) to sit at Parliament house for a summit to reform the employment system. No leader has attempted since then to truly reform a system by consensus.

Unfortunately with our polarising attack dog political system now, I don't have much hope that I will see anything like that again.

While he certainly wasn't perfect, but neither were Bob Menzies, Gough Whitlam or John Howard, my personal view is that he will be generally remembered as an actual leader not just as PM. Unfortunately we have had many people be appointed PM, but were terrible leaders, as they couldn't even lead their own side of politics when they were in the big chair.

We are in a better place because of his contribution to our society.

Vale Bob Hawke.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Tapped out just in time to avoid the possible impending alleged death tax?

I don’t celebrate people passing, but this is one less we have to pay for. Now we just have to wait for all the others to drop off their perch.
Aaron
What do you mean by 'all the others' Question

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Had such great vision Medicare, the One Nation Programme which delivered the Standard Gauge Links.  Compare Bob to the visionless twits we have today?

Hawke put the country first and his own position at some point after that, we see the survival of politicians today as number one (their selfish approach) and the country and its people down the list somewhere.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The Vinelander, I mean EVERY current but especially FORMER politicians who continue to drain the Australian economy via payments for a job they no longer do!
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
He's Probably going to be remembered most for this




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFgTt9KkpIY
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The Vinelander, I mean EVERY current but especially FORMER politicians who continue to drain the Australian economy via payments for a job they no longer do!
Aaron

Perhaps you would be happier if we lived in a dictatorship full of corruption...or a police state where we would have no say in the freedom we enjoy and clearly take for granted, by living in a country where our elections are free of violence and everyone gets to have their say equally.

Everyone, including your good self is entitled to their superannuation...courtesy of the Hawke government and a pension when they get older...shall I go on Question

Mike.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Vinelander, you are an imbecile.

What other occupation pays 50+% of salary as superannuation for 8+ years of service?

Superannuation is one thing, but I presume by your response you’re an unclosested ALP fan... If you think such terms of payment having left an occupation is reasonable I suggest you are voting for the wrong team.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Why the need for the insult?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I think equating my comments about no politician being worth the amount they are paid for no longer being in their role to wanting to live in a dictatorship, police state or some other such place with no freedom is a weak minded argument.

Imbecillus means what is means.

Take a look.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Vinelander, you are an imbecile.

What other occupation pays 50+% of salary as superannuation for 8+ years of service?

Superannuation is one thing, but I presume by your response you’re an unclosested ALP fan... If you think such terms of payment having left an occupation is reasonable I suggest you are voting for the wrong team.
Aaron

Thanks for your comment Aron...however people who vote for the conservative side of politics, such as yourself also earn the superannuation they benefit from which was enabled by the Hawke government.

Politicians are well remunerated by being politicians because it's not a permanent job and they can be turfed out at the next election. BTW, a Prime Minister and MP's in general earn a mere fraction of what a CEO of a major business earns and MP's ON BOTH SIDES OF POLITICS have an arduous vetting process to undertake before they can stand for parliament...which even then, they are NOT guaranteed of winning

Shall I go on Question

Mike.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Politicians are well remunerated by being politicians because it's not a permanent job and they can be turfed out at the next election.
"The Vinelander"
From that remark, I would infer that you work for a Government Department or similar, from which it is very difficult to actually sack someone. Try working in industry, where you can be sacked or "made redundant" at the whim of one person. Nobody gets super-generous super to cover such an eventuality.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I think that Bob Hawke will be remembered by the community as a whole as a person that progressed change by taking the community with him, by consensus.

I remember as a kid his employment summit that had union leadership, business, leaders of various groups (eg farmers,social security advocates, welfare, etc) to sit at Parliament house for a summit to reform the employment system. No leader has attempted since then to truly reform a system by consensus.

Unfortunately with our polarising attack dog political system now, I don't have much hope that I will see anything like that again.

While he certainly wasn't perfect, but neither were Bob Menzies, Gough Whitlam or John Howard, my personal view is that he will be generally remembered as an actual leader not just as PM. Unfortunately we have had many people be appointed PM, but were terrible leaders, as they couldn't even lead their own side of politics when they were in the big chair.

We are in a better place because of his contribution to our society.

Vale Bob Hawke.
Big J
A gracious well thought out post. Thank you for that. Vale Hawkie.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I think equating my comments about no politician being worth the amount they are paid for no longer being in their role to wanting to live in a dictatorship, police state or some other such place with no freedom is a weak minded argument.

Imbecillus means what is means.

Take a look.
Aaron
Nah, to busy sitting in the back yard in the sun with  a couple of kids peeling and eating yabbies.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
No please don’t go on.

‘Politicians are well remunerated because it’s not a permanent job’? Must be also why Macca’s casuals are rocking the brand new Mercedes to work?

How about you tell the truth ‘politicians are well remunerated because they are one of the only species of worker that votes for their own salary increase’.

We also earn superannuation, that is true, but none of that is paid (excluding extenuating circumstances) before retirement, and it’s not paid anything even like the rate paid to former parliamentarians.

CEOs in private business can be paid more than a parliamentarian, but they are vastly more accountable. The company that I used to work for got through more CEOs  in the last seven years than we had prime ministers - the difference is none of those CEOs will drain the national economy for the rest of their lives.

The process of vetting to sit in parliament is not nearly as arduous as you might think  - I used to work in politics and was part of the process. It’s more about proving to the party that you don’t have any politically scary skeletons in the closet than anything else. The ‘Section 44 seven’ or however many there were I got bored and lost count didn’t teach you that? These people were so well vetted they didn’t even know which citizenships they held.

For the record, I don’t vote for anyone, have not voted since 2010 or something - I refuse to take part in their glorified popularity contest.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Tapped out just in time to avoid the possible impending alleged death tax?

I don’t celebrate people passing, but this is one less we have to pay for. Now we just have to wait for all the others to drop off their perch.
What do you mean by 'all the others' Question

Mike.
The Vinelander
[color=#0b0080]John Howard[/color] 26 July 1939 (age 79) 1996–2007
[color=#0b0080]Paul Keating[/color] 18 January 1944 (age 75) 1991–1996
[color=#0b0080]Malcolm Turnbull[/color] 24 October 1954 (age 64) 2015–2018
[color=#0b0080]Kevin Rudd[/color] 21 September 1957 (age 61) 2007–2010, 2013
[color=#0b0080]Tony Abbott[/color] 4 November 1957 (age 61) 2013–2015
[color=#0b0080]Julia Gillard[/color] 29 September 1961 (age 57) 2010–2013

Although TA doesn't get the PM"s pension and I suspect SCOMO won't either.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The list is more extensive than just ex PMs RTT, there are leaders of the government in the senate, ministers, and the other parliamentarians as well.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
For once I tend to agree with Mike, I tend to think anyone achieving PM is entitled to a healthy pension for life although it should be proportional in some way to the length of time as PM. Former CEO's don't have any of the publicity and security issues that former PM's do. The PM certainly has more accountability and social responsibility than any CEO. For example the PM has the authority or at least final sign off to send people to war and potentially be killed.

What that actual pension is in dollar terms is a tricky one, again I think a base rate for one election period, then proportional to duration as PM and like all pensions, means tested against additional income, but obviously a higher amount.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The list is more extensive than just ex PMs RTT, there are leaders of the government in the senate, ministers, and the other parliamentarians as well.
Aaron
Yes of course, but I thought the focus was PM's, the parliamentary pension for back benches is excessive I agree. Should be same as rest of us. However Howard to scrap the Parliamentary Pension scheme for new members from 2004, what the details of the new scheme are???

For those interested.
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/1011/SuperannuationBenefits
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/retiring-federal-politicians-will-get-sixfigure-pensions-for-life-20160304-gna6c1.html

Closing the old scheme permanently will save around $350M over next 11 years according to Greens.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/08/scrapping-politicians-six-figure-pensions-would-save-350m-costings-show

Perhaps the next govt could offer to "buy out" many of the claimants with a once off lump sum to enable a longer term savings.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Politicians are well remunerated by being politicians because it's not a permanent job and they can be turfed out at the next election.
From that remark, I would infer that you work for a Government Department or similar, from which it is very difficult to actually sack someone. Try working in industry, where you can be sacked or "made redundant" at the whim of one person. Nobody gets super-generous super to cover such an eventuality.
Valvegear

As we live in a democracy which Aron above doesn't appear to comprehend, nor appreciate...we all make choices where we work and this may have an impact on the generousness of your superannuation.

Yes I can proudly proclaim that I work for the government of Victoria and I'm remunerated less than my counterpart...if there is one in private enterprise, because government jobs don't generally pay as well as counterparts in private enterprise enjoy.
I am an archivist. I have worked in all tiers of government and apart from being a private consultant to local government in Queensland, I've always worked in government.

However for my lower remuneration I enjoy a level of security of employment, no age or sexual orientation discrimination and an attractive superannuation when I decide to retire.

BTW, Rest in Peace Bob and if this doesn't sum up the genuineness of the man...nothing will.



Mike.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
No, Parliamentarians are remunerated for the job they’re doing whilst they’re doing it - no issue with that whatsoever, although they are somewhat overly highly paid considering their job is not especially arduous or even held to a reasonable sense of accountability.

There are no private sector jobs I can think of where performance evaluations and opportunities for ‘being held to account’ only occur once every 3-4 (or worse 6) years.

There is no valid reason to be paying former politicians after they have left the job.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
No, Parliamentarians are remunerated for the job they’re doing whilst they’re doing it - no issue with that whatsoever, although they are somewhat overly highly paid considering their job is not especially arduous or even held to a reasonable sense of accountability.

There are no private sector jobs I can think of where performance evaluations and opportunities for ‘being held to account’ only occur once every 3-4 (or worse 6) years.

There is no valid reason to be paying former politicians after they have left the job.
Aaron

Thank you for your insight to this subject.

M.

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