Boris Johnson - New British PM

 
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Bad news for Boris, the Brecon & Radnorshire by-election was just declared as a win for the Liberal Democrats. The Conservative incumbent had a –9.6% swing, and the 59% turnout was the highest for a by-election in over 20 years.

This reduces his working majority (Conservatives + DUP) in the House of Commons to just one seat.

Considering that the incumbent was recalled by the electorate after (just the second ever MP to be recalled) being convicted of expenses fraud, you would have to question the sanity of the Conservative party in putting him up again in the by-election. A former Labour MP was recalled earlier this year (the first one since recalls were introduced to the UK) but Labour managed to hold the seat through the better tactical approach of expelling the MP from the party and nominating a different candidate.

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
What is it that you've got against Irish unification?  If a majority of Northern Ireland's voters want to leave the UK and join the Republic and in doing so remain in the EU, why should a bunch of Protestant reactionaries stand in the way?  It's called democracy.  If they don't like it, they can move back to the UK.  The North would be better off in remaining in the EU as part of a United Ireland rather than staying with a Brexit Britain.  After all, they voted in the referendum to stay in the EU, which says a lot about their allegiance to Britain.
Transtopic
This is such a simplistic analysis of the situation, you obviously are clueless about the actual history of Ireland and the centuries of war and conflict that predated the formation of the Republic and the creation of Ulster as a theoretically safe place for Protestants to escape Catholic persecution and practice religion freely while remaining part of the UK. "Move back to the UK"? They're as native to Ireland as the Catholics are.

That's only one interpretation of the situation - the Catholics who remained in Ulster after the partition will tell you that THEY'RE the victims of persecution after finding themselves on the wrong side of the border - which to some extent is true.

Are you beginning to understand now why there's a visceral feat that the Troubles will start again with a hard border? Prostestants in the North will never accept being part of the Republic, full-stop, they spent centuries establishing their identity as completely separate from the Catholic Republic and they don't want a bar of it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
There is certainly a progressive soft merger going on in Ireland.

The power networks were merged a while back.

Little by little mergers over time, ond day most in NI will start to question their nationality. However the big one will be if the economies are similar.
RTT_Rules
Ulster didn't crash in the same way that the Republic did during the GFC - something for which I think they're pretty grateful.

Separate governments, different currencies.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
What is it that you've got against Irish unification?  If a majority of Northern Ireland's voters want to leave the UK and join the Republic and in doing so remain in the EU, why should a bunch of Protestant reactionaries stand in the way?  It's called democracy.  If they don't like it, they can move back to the UK.  The North would be better off in remaining in the EU as part of a United Ireland rather than staying with a Brexit Britain.  After all, they voted in the referendum to stay in the EU, which says a lot about their allegiance to Britain.
This is such a simplistic analysis of the situation, you obviously are clueless about the actual history of Ireland and the centuries of war and conflict that predated the formation of the Republic and the creation of Ulster as a theoretically safe place for Protestants to escape Catholic persecution and practice religion freely while remaining part of the UK. "Move back to the UK"? They're as native to Ireland as the Catholics are.

That's only one interpretation of the situation - the Catholics who remained in Ulster after the partition will tell you that THEY'RE the victims of persecution after finding themselves on the wrong side of the border - which to some extent is true.

Are you beginning to understand now why there's a visceral feat that the Troubles will start again with a hard border? Prostestants in the North will never accept being part of the Republic, full-stop, they spent centuries establishing their identity as completely separate from the Catholic Republic and they don't want a bar of it.
don_dunstan
I'm well aware of the past history of Ireland and don't need a lecture from you about the conflicts over the centuries.  In fact, my forebears on my mother's side came from County Fermanagh in Northern Ireland which is on the border with the Republic.  I have researched the family history in detail and I know more about it than you give me credit for.  I visited there a few years ago.  So pull your head in.

The only hard border if the North voted to join the South in remaining in the EU will be the Irish Sea.  You are still refusing to acknowledge that a majority in Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU, which by inference suggests that they weren't wholly committed to joining the UK in Brexit.  I'd prefer to focus on the positive outcome of a possible United Ireland remaining in the EU, rather than dwelling on historical enmities.  The world has moved on.  That doesn't lessen its ties with Britain, even if it leaves the EU.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm well aware of the past history of Ireland and don't need a lecture from you about the conflicts over the centuries.  In fact, my forebears on my mother's side came from County Fermanagh in Northern Ireland which is on the border with the Republic.  I have researched the family history in detail and I know more about it than you give me credit for.  I visited there a few years ago.  So pull your head in.
Transtopic
You won't be shocked to find out that I'm pretty much Anglo/Celtic/Saxon through and through too; and I know the history of my forebears too. So it's surprising that you (as someone who claims to have some insight) comes out and says 'the Protestants will just have to accept the result if the Catholics want to go with the south'. Really? I'd invite you to join some of the marches that the various Protestant groups engage in at this time of year ("Marching Season") and see if that particular brand of Irish Protestant nationalism has died as you've predicted. You can report back to us on what you found.
The only hard border if the North voted to join the South in remaining in the EU will be the Irish Sea. You are still refusing to acknowledge that a majority in Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU, which by inference suggests that they weren't wholly committed to joining the UK in Brexit. I'd prefer to focus on the positive outcome of a possible United Ireland remaining in the EU, rather than dwelling on historical enmities. The world has moved on. That doesn't lessen its ties with Britain, even if it leaves the EU.
Transtopic
There might not be an EU left for Ulster (or Scotland) to join if and when they actually vote to leave the UK. And what 'advantages' would those nascent countries have in joining a failing trade bloc? All it will take is Marine le Pen to get elected in France and the European Union is finished - gone - kaput. Indeed if Italy or Spain cede from the EU it will have the same result. Its increasingly likely that the break-up of the EU will continue - the United Kingdom has endured pretty much in its current form since 1018 but the EU has only been around since the seventies. Which do you think is more likely to survive?

I know which one I have my money on.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
So it's surprising that you (as someone who claims to have some insight) comes out and says 'the Protestants will just have to accept the result if the Catholics want to go with the south'.
don_dunstan
This is where you're still in denial.  The Protestants as you put it represent the majority of the Northern Ireland population, so if a majority of the overall population voted to remain in the EU, then obviously a sizable proportion of Protestants must have voted for it.  The Catholic vote wasn't the determining outcome. Are you suggesting that a majority vote by the Protestants to remain in the EU is irrelevant?  

You'd be the loser if you think the EU will crumble and the British Empire is reborn.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
This is where you're still in denial.  The Protestants as you put it represent the majority of the Northern Ireland population, so if a majority of the overall population voted to remain in the EU, then obviously a sizable proportion of Protestants must have voted for it.  The Catholic vote wasn't the determining outcome. Are you suggesting that a majority vote by the Protestants to remain in the EU is irrelevant?
Transtopic
You're conflating "remain in the EU" with "merge with the Republic of Ireland". They're not the same thing.

Anyway, as I was saying, do you seriously expect the EU will still be around in 10 years? It will only take one other major state to leave (France, Italy, Spain - take your pick) and the whole thing is rooted. Doesn't sound to me like there will be an EU for Ulster to leave the UK for.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
This is where you're still in denial.  The Protestants as you put it represent the majority of the Northern Ireland population, so if a majority of the overall population voted to remain in the EU, then obviously a sizable proportion of Protestants must have voted for it.  The Catholic vote wasn't the determining outcome. Are you suggesting that a majority vote by the Protestants to remain in the EU is irrelevant?
You're conflating "remain in the EU" with "merge with the Republic of Ireland". They're not the same thing.
don_dunstan
You're quite correct, but the only way Northern Ireland could remain in the EU if Brexit eventuates, is to merge with the Republic following a majority vote at a referendum in both jurisdictions.  I doubt if NI could go it alone as a sovereign state.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Anyway, as I was saying, do you seriously expect the EU will still be around in 10 years? It will only take one other major state to leave (France, Italy, Spain - take your pick) and the whole thing is rooted.
don_dunstan
The EU will still be around in spite of nationalist alt-right movements across Europe. It's obvious many in the UK are having their own reality-check.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

You're quite correct, but the only way Northern Ireland could remain in the EU if Brexit eventuates, is to merge with the Republic following a majority vote at a referendum in both jurisdictions.  I doubt if NI could go it alone as a sovereign state.
Transtopic
There is the 'backstop' option which would keep the Good Friday Agreement largely intact, and which would pave the way for a future permanent inclusion of Northern Ireland in the European Economic Area while still remaining politically part of the UK.

The problem for the Westminster government if they allow this would be that Scotland would then demand the same advantage of being able to trade freely with the European market, and would be able to force the issue using the leverage of another independence referendum.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Anyway, as I was saying, do you seriously expect the EU will still be around in 10 years? It will only take one other major state to leave (France, Italy, Spain - take your pick) and the whole thing is rooted.
The EU will still be around in spite of nationalist alt-right movements across Europe. It's obvious many in the UK are having their own reality-check.
Groundrelay
Rubbish - a strong breeze will probably make the dysfunctional and disparate EU eventually fall over. How much longer can they sustain deeply negative interest rates? How long can they keep the fringe states inside when clearly they're not benefiting from using the Euro? The UK leaving is just a harbinger of what's to come.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Rubbish - a strong breeze will probably make the dysfunctional and disparate EU eventually fall over. How much longer can they sustain deeply negative interest rates? How long can they keep the fringe states inside when clearly they're not benefiting from using the Euro? The UK leaving is just a harbinger of what's to come.
don_dunstan
There's no real evidence that the EU is about to disintegrate and in any case why do you believe that's a positive. Those negative interest rates aren't unique to Europe (watch this space). After Brexit is accomplished, they'll waste no time negotiating free trade agreements with the EU.
Brexit (and Thump) are like opium for the forgotten masses and once the trip is over they'll be back where they started.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Rubbish - a strong breeze will probably make the dysfunctional and disparate EU eventually fall over. How much longer can they sustain deeply negative interest rates? How long can they keep the fringe states inside when clearly they're not benefiting from using the Euro? The UK leaving is just a harbinger of what's to come.
There's no real evidence that the EU is about to disintegrate and in any case why do you believe that's a positive. Those negative interest rates aren't unique to Europe (watch this space). After Brexit is accomplished, they'll waste no time negotiating free trade agreements with the EU.
Brexit (and Thump) are like opium for the forgotten masses and once the trip is over they'll be back where they started.
Groundrelay
You should tell Xi Jinping that - that it's all smoke and mirrors. I'm sure he'll be relieved to hear that.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

British House of Commons is now shut for 5 weeks.  Meanwhile the Remoaners have acted in collusion with Brussels to stop both Brexit and a snap election.  What a bunch of totalitarian elitist EU puppets who don't trust their constituents.

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-brexit-dle-gbr-intl/index.html

I wonder if we'll see a new Democratic movement rise up to oust the traitors who bow to the EU?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
British House of Commons is now shut for 5 weeks.  Meanwhile the Remoaners have acted in collusion with Brussels to stop both Brexit and a snap election.  What a bunch of totalitarian elitist EU puppets who don't trust their constituents.

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-brexit-dle-gbr-intl/index.html

I wonder if we'll see a new Democratic movement rise up to oust the traitors who bow to the EU?
Carnot

Blame the leftists, blame the Greenies, blame Labour, blame the elitists, but never ever take responsibility for your own actions.

@Carnot - blames elitists then supports clueless Eton educated silver-spooner who can't make up his own mind

"...leaving would cause at least some business uncertainty, while embroiling the Government for several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements, so diverting energy from the real problems of this country – low skills, low social mobility, low investment etc – that have nothing to do with Europe."
Boris Johnson - Feb 2016
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

British House of Commons is now shut for 5 weeks.  Meanwhile the Remoaners have acted in collusion with Brussels to stop both Brexit and a snap election.  What a bunch of totalitarian elitist EU puppets who don't trust their constituents.

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-brexit-dle-gbr-intl/index.html

I wonder if we'll see a new Democratic movement rise up to oust the traitors who bow to the EU?

Blame the leftists, blame the Greenies, blame Labour, blame the elitists, but never ever take responsibility for your own actions.

@Carnot - blames elitists then supports clueless Eton educated silver-spooner who can't make up his own mind

"...leaving would cause at least some business uncertainty, while embroiling the Government for several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements, so diverting energy from the real problems of this country – low skills, low social mobility, low investment etc – that have nothing to do with Europe."
Boris Johnson - Feb 2016
bingley hall
Well take it to an election and let the people decide!  They've already had a referendum but parliament won't comply.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@Carnot Oust the traitors who bow to rhe EU? God Carnot I wish that you would actually do some research instead of just spouting English exceptionalist bulldust. The MPs are exposing Johnson for what he is. A buffoon who is incredibly self interested and ambitious and cares for no one but Boris Johnson. A liar and a chalartan but he is on your side of politics so yeah you think he is ok. If you think that he has the working class interest at heart you are surely deluded.

The Right Honorable member for Tooting, Justine Greening has 100 times more integrity than Boris will ever have on his very best day.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Sorry Justine Greening is the MP for Putney nor Tooting.

Michael
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

@Carnot Oust the traitors who bow to rhe EU? God Carnot I wish that you would actually do some research instead of just spouting English exceptionalist bulldust. The MPs are exposing Johnson for what he is. A buffoon who is incredibly self interested and ambitious and cares for no one but Boris Johnson. A liar and a chalartan but he is on your side of politics so yeah you think he is ok. If you think that he has the working class interest at heart you are surely deluded.

The Right Honorable member for Tooting, Justine Greening has 100 times more integrity than Boris will ever have on his very best day.

Michael
mejhammers1
If the British people think he's a buffoon or a liar, then the Remoaners should have the Integrity to LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE by allowing an election.

The Remoaners are behaving more like Hong Kong parliamentarians than representatives of the British electorate.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Speaker Bercow tendered his resignation overnight, I never saw that coming, although just reading an article now in the Herald. he was a very controversial speaker.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
British House of Commons is now shut for 5 weeks.  Meanwhile the Remoaners have acted in collusion with Brussels to stop both Brexit and a snap election.  What a bunch of totalitarian elitist EU puppets who don't trust their constituents.

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-brexit-dle-gbr-intl/index.html

I wonder if we'll see a new Democratic movement rise up to oust the traitors who bow to the EU?

Blame the leftists, blame the Greenies, blame Labour, blame the elitists, but never ever take responsibility for your own actions.

@Carnot - blames elitists then supports clueless Eton educated silver-spooner who can't make up his own mind

"...leaving would cause at least some business uncertainty, while embroiling the Government for several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements, so diverting energy from the real problems of this country – low skills, low social mobility, low investment etc – that have nothing to do with Europe."
Boris Johnson - Feb 2016
Well take it to an election and let the people decide!  They've already had a referendum but parliament won't comply.
Carnot
- Lowered the status of the UK PM to that of revolving door of Italy
- Cost the country multiple PM's and I doubt BJ will survive this either with other suitable candidates likely refraining from nomination to prevent being associated with this mess and cost them their political and post political careers.
- At least one extra General Election, likely two
- Stagnation of the govt on other matters
- The UK economy diving faster than Trump killing the US economy
- Nth Ireland at risk of return to civil war and with it bombs in London
- Scotland threatening to hold another and more likely to win referendum to quit the UK in their own SCEIXT if the UK BREXIT's
- British MP's either quitting politics in disgust or being fired by their own leader for doing what they are allowed to do.
- BJ's own brother telling him to FO and quitting.
- BJ's previously supportive colleges telling him to FO and quitting.
- The EU sitting there not giving a crap because the longer it goes on the less likely any other EU member will even consider going down the same path and gaining more power at the BREXIT bargining table as time goes by.
- UK citizens working and living in mainland EU not knowing their future employment / residency / property ownership status.
- 90% of FB and other social media claims and justification to BREXIT or NOT-BREXIT is complete tripe and only takes a few minutes in Wiki and other to work it out.

The UK Parliament is heavily divided along non-party lines. The Opposition is doing what the Opposition always does and making it as hard as possible for the govt but unlike other issues, desperately avoiding an election to risk having to solve it, rather let the govt implode so badly no one will vote for them for a generation and the people will happily accept their solution regardless of what it is.

Its a cluster screw up of biblical proportions.

The NON-BINDING referendum was a question of ideology, not direction nor a solution. It was hastily put together by Cameron to try and shut some people up and move on and his bluff failed and failed far worse than he ever predicted.

Does anyone truly believe to continue this path makes any commonsense? Oh the people voted for it, we should do it, yada yada yada! Do what exactly? There are a thousand ways to Brexit, should the MP's be forced to agree to any one path unconditionally?

While people voted to leave, they didn't say how or was it non-conditional. The MP's are within their right to object to conditions that don't agree with like any legislation.

This is like one of those big projects in industry that was wrong to start with but they keep trying to keep it alive until it either implodes or a CEO with big balls/ovaries comes in and says STOP, push everything into the bin, assign new leadership and start again detailing the plan first.

The best thing BJ can do is call a STOP to the whole disaster, stablise the UK economy and the GBP and establish a BREXIT committee to put together a package on how best to leave the UK that is agreed to by most and put this to a referendum for which the outcome is binding within 6mth.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Well if the people can't decide (or be allowed to decide), then perhaps now is the time for the Queen to throw caution to the wind and sack the lot of them and start again?  (Yes, I know that would be utterly unconstitutional yada yada yada....., but could it be a way forward?)
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
They had one referendum - now they get another ?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@Carnot Remoaners god more Brexit BS lines. Anyway members of Parliament are acting on what they think that is in their constituents  interest.  They are NOT delegates.

Michael
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

@Carnot Remoaners god more Brexit BS lines. Anyway members of Parliament are acting on what they think that is in their constituents  interest.  They are NOT delegates.

Michael
mejhammers1
Perhaps "Patronizing Traitors" is a more appropriate description?

Brendan O'Neill is right:
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/08/the-remainer-tyranny/

Interesting too is that UK Labour would be wiped out if an election was held tomorrow.

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