Four train lines suspended, trapped passengers freed

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 13 Sep 2019 13:48
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Specific to this outage of power at Burnley, I was once told the power can be fed into the network from various places including but not limited to Burnley and near SCS/North Melbourne in the city area.

This represents a major failure of the system with passengers needing to be removed from trains which could not move.  This has happened before in the western suburbs.

Is maintenance being skipped on vital services such as power?

Four train lines suspended, trapped passengers freed

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Is maintenance being skipped on vital services such as power?
"bevans"
Given the fact the the Melbourne suburban rail system is being run for private profit, I'd be very surprised if any proactive maintenance is done. I'd also suspect that the minimum possible reactive maintenance happens. Fix the thing that broke? Yes. Put a backup in place? You're kidding.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.

Razz trapped passengers freed, hell sounds like a Hostage situation...........Shocked

BigShunter.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

It was an issue with the OLE not any of the substations. Being able to feed power into the network wouldn’t of done anything for today’s issue.

Passengers were “trapped” on the train because the OLE was still energised. Don’t really want people wondering around with 22Kv laying around.

Most likely an issue with a panto that’s damaged the OLE.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Pantograph damaging 22 kV AC OLE?  How?
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

It’s has happened many times before. Due to poor maintenance of the OLE or the panto can cause the OLE to snap or the panto to become tangled. Might of brought down a few hundred meters of live overhead.

Seems to be happening more often with instances on the Frankston and Werribee Lines this year. Not an easy task restringing overhead wires.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Isn't overhead catenary 1500V DC?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Isn't overhead catenary 1500V DC?
route14


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC9rDR0gsHE
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Who or what is OLE?
Is he/she related to the overhead?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Sorry I can't watch youtube where I am.  Is there 22 kV AC equipment within the height of pantograph?
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Sorry I can't watch youtube where I am.  Is there 22 kV AC equipment within the height of pantograph?
route14

No.

Lockie91 is thinking of other cities where the electrification uses 22kV AC. Victoria uses 1.5 kV DC. Still enough to kill passengers if they touch a live wire while wandering around.

The real problem for the passengers is that there is no incentive for the operator to evacuate the trains. The passengers can be 'safely' left there for hours, albeit in considerable distress. But distress is not going to cost the operator anything, while the resources on the ground to evacuate quickly will.

So, they first have to work out what is wrong, then get the staff to travel (through peak hour) to manually open and earth the remaining overhead, and ensure that all trains are stopped so that there is no encroachment in the dead section. An hour if you're lucky.

Then they have to get staff to the trains (again through peak hour) to evacuate the passengers and safely sheppard them to an access point. That takes a while - think of getting people with 'special needs' down to track level. Probably only a few teams, so they do it train by train. Tough luck if you're in the last train to be evacuated.

And, of course, if the media or the government asks questions about the length of time, the media spokesperson intones 'safety', and everyone says 'that's alright then'.

It's somewhat ironic that this fault must have occurred pretty much outside electrol.
  notadriver Beginner

Witnessed this one happen yesterday, as my workplace backs onto the lines between East Richmond and Burnley.

Both sets of X’Traps had busted pantographs and the overhead was detached laying over the tail end of the FSS bound train. Due to the nature of the pantograph damage, looks like this happened at some speed. Glad nobody was hurt. Trains on the inner H designated lines continued to pass (albeit at a reduced speed) for up to an hour after the incident occurred.

What’s the protocol for passengers cracking a door to get some air in this situation? Given that neither the lights or air would be functioning?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Who or what is OLE?
YM-Mundrabilla
It's the cry of a Spanish bull fighter, pronounced Oh Lay.
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

Good to see the "improvements" over the decades. We used to repair the overheard within a hour or two, or at least isolate things quickly to allow some normal services to resume. The most extreme failures would take longer. Like 30 years ago, when the Yard Masters Bridge at Flinders Street malfunctioned. Massive delays (nowhere to by-pass things), but at least trains still ran and people got home.

I suppose Metro save money by not having overhead gangs on standby for such events. Back in the early 1980's, we used to have at least 2 gangs of 3 plus a couple of flagmen and a supervisor at Batman Avenue 24/7/365; they could handle most such breakdowns. And they wouldn't be sitting around all day either; they would go out to remove trees, renew insulators, fix broken droppers, all the little jobs that can be quickly abandoned if they need to fix a breakdown, but which when done give the network much greater performance.

Then the trains themselves; once upon a time they would roll to somewhere convenient when the power failed. These days (I believe) the emergency brakes quickly apply, leaving the train stranded wherever it is. Surely there is no reason not to allow the driver some discretion as to where he stops? Imagine if a train was stopped on a narrow bridge, with evacuation impossible? Consider the scenario; an Up train departs Montmorency and loses power; once upon a time it would simply roll to Greensborough, and everybody was happy that they could at least get off the train at a platform. Replacement buses/taxis/lifts was easy, as was getting a coffee while you waited. Ditto Upwey - Upper Fern Tree Gully (imagine being stranded on the side of a cliff along that stretch?)

I suppose dinosaurs like me just don't understand.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
As hbedriver would remember ( and as I have remarked previously) there used to be regular overhead inspection trains with dedicated vehicles, some with a cupola for actually viewing the overhead close up. From school, I could see them frequently trundling along between Richmond and South Yarra.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

If the contact wire is in contact with the train body, it would be earthed via the train's wheels.  The current drawn by the short circuit would have tripped the substation anyway.  Even if that's not considered safe, it shouldn't take hours just to switch off power to safely evacuate passengers.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Who or what is OLE?
It's the cry of a Spanish bull fighter, pronounced Oh Lay.
Valvegear
Thank you Valvegear.
Assuming that you, too, had to look it up that is undoubtedly something that we have both learned from this f...... useless website full of know it all smart areses.
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

The brakes do not automatically apply with a loss of power, the driver can let the train roll to a safe section or station for passenger evacuation. However in this case the overhead was tangled in the pantos so it was safer to stop the train than let it rip down more wire.

An hour to switch off power (if the report is correct) is unacceptable as there is nothing to stop passengers using the emergency door release handles to get out. Probably decided to doing something when some of the passengers started venting on social media.

Also why do preventative maintenance when things don't break down? Let's get rid of these useless teams on standby. Someone higher up probably got a bonus for that decision.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Sorry I can't watch youtube where I am.  Is there 22 kV AC equipment within the height of pantograph?
route14
3-phase 22kV AC cables are usually set a few metres higher than the overhead on the top edge of the stanchions.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Who or what is OLE?
Is he/she related to the overhead?
YM-Mundrabilla

Apparently we learn by osmosis what acronyms mean...or look up Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_line

Mike.

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