E class tram routes

 
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Route 19 already runs D2s, this way both tram lines parallel have high capacity.

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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Did anyone working for the Victorian Government, PTV or Yarra Trams even bother taking a trip to Toorak to count the accessible stops along the way before this brain-dead plan on running E classes on the 58? What's next, Kew to start running Citadis trams on the 78?
  tram1041 Station Master

Did anyone working for the Victorian Government, PTV or Yarra Trams even bother taking a trip to Toorak to count the accessible stops along the way before this brain-dead plan on running E classes on the 58? What's next, Kew to start running Citadis trams on the 78?E
Heihachi_73
Hey all,
          This is no difference to route 11,no platform stops between New Preston and Regent stand none in Brunswick st,or on most of the 86.At least Toorak terminus has been upgraded.It is not just about the 58 other changes will happen because of this for the better of the system,such as a new full time service on Latrobe st with the 75 (or possibly the 12),not just a token route 30 stopgap and means that Malvern will be able to provide way more consistency across it's routes & can better use the D1's & even better mid year when Bwk take over route 6,leaving just routes 5,16 & 72 left at Malvern.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

So only the Malvern contribution to the 58 will move to Southbank and go E class. OK. Is there really enough room at Southbank for more E class trams? I was under the impression it was full...
  tram1041 Station Master

So only the Malvern contribution to the 58 will move to Southbank and go E class. OK. Is there really enough room at Southbank for more E class trams? I was under the impression it was full...
Mr. Lane
The plan is to change route 75 to  run from Docklands via Latrobe st to Brunswick st instead and lose route 30.Some A class can then be moved from Southbank to make space,and maybe to give some route 12's to Kew for more space.I would like to see the outbound 75 turn right at Vic/Nic and run via Spring st and left into Wellington Pde to create a continuous route,but then you need something else in Latrobe for the other direction.Alternatively you could leave Docklands as the terminus and run both directions via Spring st.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I hope not, the City Loop is slow enough with heavy rail and only five stations, let alone a typical Melbourne tram (and the 75 at that) which has to give way to cars sitting (and/or U-turning) on the tram tracks, then stop between blocks for the actual tram stops because some moron moved the stops away from the intersections, and then wait another two minutes at the traffic lights at the end of each block.

If you want a snail's pace tour of the city without using a W class, reroute the 12 via the 30 along Victoria/La Trobe, turn at Spencer and then continue along the normal route. It's not like the minuscule A classes are of any real use on Collins St anyway, everyone just waits for the next E class or tries to sardine can an already crush-loaded Citadis. Yes, Docklands will miss out on the 30 once it's retired (same with what happened with the 31), but if anything, the E classes running on both the 11 and 86 (compared to the previous B2s) and the updated City Circle timetable should somewhat make up for it. Of course, the bad eggs around Docklands are still the 48 and 70 whenever a small tram appears (which is more likely than a larger tram, especially in the case of the 70), but that won't change until the remaining depots receive some newer trams.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Presumably the plan is to extend Route 75, from its current terminus of Central Pier/Harbour Esp (Docklands), east along La Trobe Street to terminate at St Vincents Plaza, thereby duplicating the current Route 30 and allowing it to be closed. (Route 75 would become J shaped.) Peak-hour Route 30, with a 10-min headway, probably requires about 5 trams. Joining the two routes would lead to efficiencies by cutting out the lengthy turnarounds by both routes at Central Pier/Harbour Esp (Docklands), whereby trams run 300 metres or so to shunt in Footscray Road.

To run the service would require an extra 4 or 5 B2-Class, whilst at the same time releasing 5 x A-Class, resulting in an overall capacity increase on the current Route 30, and perhaps a frequency increase, depending on how the headways are matched (Route 75 is 8 or 9 mins in peak hour).

Route 75 would no longer be able use the Central Pier/Harbour Esp (Docklands) stop (it is north of La Trobe Street); the stops either side being Bourke St/Harbour Esp (Docklands) and Etihad Stadium [sic]/La Trobe St. Headway consistency may be problem.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

That would overstress the drivers on route 75, and make it more prone to disruption with the difficulty of crossing Nicholson St.  Route 30 is shorter and have less flow on effect with delays.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

A link between Whiteman St. reservation and Park St. would be ideal, but the likelihood of this happening is about the same as the long talked about having New Preston operating Brunswick routes with depot access tracks laid along Normanby Ave. and Moreland Rd. because it would be a section of tracks without revenue service.  A less expensive option would be a pair of west-south curves at Collins and William Sts. (since the ones at Bourke & William is gone anyway) and a pair of west-north curves at LaTrobe and William.  Shunting at the Dudley St. siding incurs too much dead run and wastes time if you have to do a block car urgently.  Shunting at the siding also requires moving across motor vehicle lanes, just like shunting at the Simpson St. siding.  Something new for motorists born in the recent three decades to expect.
route14
The missing 300m in Park St between  Heather St and  Kingsway plus a curve pair from Park into Clarendon city bound are part of Metro 1 supplementary works .  Idea is once Metro 1 opens 2025 that at least one St Kilda Road Route will enter city from Domain via Park, Clarendon and Spencer Street  to the Remand centre turnback and ultimately West & North melbourne stations .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

A link between Whiteman St. reservation and Park St. would be ideal, but the likelihood of this happening is about the same as the long talked about having New Preston operating Brunswick routes with depot access tracks laid along Normanby Ave. and Moreland Rd. because it would be a section of tracks without revenue service.  A less expensive option would be a pair of west-south curves at Collins and William Sts. (since the ones at Bourke & William is gone anyway) and a pair of west-north curves at LaTrobe and William.  Shunting at the Dudley St. siding incurs too much dead run and wastes time if you have to do a block car urgently.  Shunting at the siding also requires moving across motor vehicle lanes, just like shunting at the Simpson St. siding.  Something new for motorists born in the recent three decades to expect.
The missing 300m in Park St between  Heather St and  Kingsway plus a curve pair from Park into Clarendon city bound are part of Metro 1 supplementary works .  Idea is once Metro 1 opens 2025 that at least one St Kilda Road Route will enter city from Domain via Park, Clarendon and Spencer Street  to the Remand centre turnback and ultimately West & North melbourne stations .
kuldalai
From mid November  70 & 75 get altered timetables to give a 5 minute frequency along Flinders St .  30 & 78 should be combined to give a link between Nth Richmond station and the job rich area of Cremorne and South Yarra .

12 should ultimately run via Latrobe & Spencer when the reamining routes in Collins St are all on artic trams to make up for loss of capacity by moving 12 to  Latrobe .

Check out the TRAM PLAN  section of the Melbourne Rail Plan on the Rail Futures website it addresses all these shortfalls .
  route14 Chief Commissioner

LaTrobe St. probably doesn't need a third route.  The new route 78 (or new route 30, whatever they decide to call it) will overlap Victoria Pde. and the most commercialized section of Victoria St., which will allow route 12 to be reverted back to Brunswick St. siding so that Southbank Depot can concentrate all its A class on a shorter route to provide more frequent service along Collins St., which is necessary with the route 31 withdrawn.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

LaTrobe St. probably doesn't need a third route.  The new route 78 (or new route 30, whatever they decide to call it) will overlap Victoria Pde. and the most commercialized section of Victoria St., which will allow route 12 to be reverted back to Brunswick St. siding so that Southbank Depot can concentrate all its A class on a shorter route to provide more frequent service along Collins St., which is necessary with the route 31 withdrawn.
route14
Thats basically what is proposed in the Rail Futures  Melbourne Tram Plan .

12 runs from St Vincents Plaza via Latrobe & Spencer then as now to Fitzroy St St Kilda.
30 & 78 get combined into one through route  Docklands via Latrobe St, Victoria Pde, Victoria St, Church St, Chapel St, Brighton Rd to Elsternwick Station .

So Latrobe St gets two routes  78 &  12 plus 35  City Circle
  route14 Chief Commissioner

If route 78 was to be extended to Elsternwick, Glenhuntly can take Kew's share back to minimize dead runs, or in the Yarra Trams' fancy way of wording, to minimize public confusion with routes that only operate for part of a day.  Kew can take up runs on route 12 so that Victoria Gardens shopping centre will still benefit from driver relief runs on route 12.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
AFAIK the 78's northern end curves eastwards rather than toward the city, hence Kew Depot currently running the route. Upgrading the route would require relaying the tracks, which then makes me think of another similar issue - route 12 at St Kilda. If the lowly 78 can be relaid, what's stopping the 12 from being upgraded so that other trams run along that section without having to shunt in Fitzroy St when the 96 light rail is fubar?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

AFAIK the 78's northern end curves eastwards rather than toward the city, hence Kew Depot currently running the route. Upgrading the route would require relaying the tracks, which then makes me think of another similar issue - route 12 at St Kilda. If the lowly 78 can be relaid, what's stopping the 12 from being upgraded so that other trams run along that section without having to shunt in Fitzroy St when the 96 light rail is fubar?
Heihachi_73
The Melbourne Tram Plan  (FREE to download from Rail Futures website)  details it all .

Church St / Victoria St gets a curve pair towards St Vincents Plaza .

Park St / Fitzroy St at St Kilda gets a double curve pair towards the Esplanade.  Existing 16 gets re-numbered as 79 and operates Malvern Station, Hawthorn Rd, Balaclava Rd, St Kilda, Esplanade, Fitzroy St then as per 12 via Clarendon and Spencer Streets, West & North Melbourne stations through to RCH, Zoo and West Coburg. (as a second route as well as 58 to West Coburg).

Northern half of 16 becomes 68 from Kew Junction via Cotham Rd, Glenferrie Rd and Hawthorn Road to East Brighton .
  route14 Chief Commissioner

What a mess up.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

So are the E class running on the 58 yet? I haven't seen one...
  mike49 Locomotive Fireman

So are the E class running on the 58 yet? I haven't seen one...
Mr. Lane
No, and nothing has been reported about how the testing of their suitability for the route went.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

According to Yarra Trams' press release, the new West Coburg terminus is 33 metres long, 0.45 m shorter than an E class tram.  Either the PR officer neglected the portion after the decimal point, or E class trams won't be able to use that terminus.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
According to Yarra Trams' press release, the new West Coburg terminus is 33 metres long, 0.45 m shorter than an E class tram.  Either the PR officer neglected the portion after the decimal point, or E class trams won't be able to use that terminus.
route14
Are there doors in the last 0.45m of the tram's length?  Could not the nose of the tram protrude slightly beyond the end of the stop?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

According to General Operation Rules and Procedures No. 86, drivers must visually inspect the position of point blades before starting at a facing point.  Even if the south-most bogie clears the spring loaded point at that terminus, the driver has every right to refuse to start the tram for the next service because h/she cannot see the point blades, which will be under the driver's cab.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Is this quoted length of the terminus for the terminus sidings or for the length of the terminus platform? I assumed it was for the length of the platform. If it is for the length of the platform, then the E class should easily fit within the platform.
  Obzerva Station Master

Location: #6 / Glen Waverley line
Just a thought, if the E class doesn’t fit at the West Coburg terminus as was speculated above, could a C2 being slightly shorter be used in the 58 instead of an E class.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Yes, C2 class are shorter than E class, 32.65 metres, which will fit into that terminus.  Whether they will be deployed on route 58 is another issue, of course.

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