Sydney Metro Service Disruptions Thread

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

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  ANR Chief Commissioner

This thread should be pages and pages long. Last post was in June. Nobody is reporting the Thursday incident?

Would this happen if regular suburban trains ran in this corridor?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This thread should be pages and pages long. Last post was in June. Nobody is reporting the Thursday incident?

Would this happen if regular suburban trains ran in this corridor?
ANR
Things happen on every line from time to time, its a matter of so what.

Near whole system shutdown involving CBD get much more attention.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Hills to Chatswood is a fair chunk of Sydney's population - late for work. The system is too technically fancy to be reliable.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Hills to Chatswood is a fair chunk of Sydney's population - late for work. The system is too technically fancy to be reliable.
ANR
ANR, you remind of that guy that puts up You Tube videos of such trivial things as a loose screw on a Sydney Metro train. Try as you may to stir up dislike of the new system most users think its OK and the way of the future.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Hills to Chatswood is a fair chunk of Sydney's population - late for work. The system is too technically fancy to be reliable.
ANR
ANR,
this is a stupid comment and I think you know it. You know globally that automated trains are neither rare nor unreliable globally with plenty of data to support the systems are inherently more reliable and safer. Singapore is renown for its PT, mostly automated, then there is Vancouver, Dubai, Riyidh, numerous on China, EU etc etc etc.
  Matthew Chief Train Controller

Hills to Chatswood is a fair chunk of Sydney's population - late for work. The system is too technically fancy to be reliable.
ANR,
this is a stupid comment and I think you know it. You know globally that automated trains are neither rare nor unreliable globally with plenty of data to support the systems are inherently more reliable and safer. Singapore is renown for its PT, mostly automated, then there is Vancouver, Dubai, Riyidh, numerous on China, EU etc etc etc.
RTT_Rules
It's not fancy enough. I rode the Singapore DownTown line last month end to end. It uses an Invensys control system. It was WAY better at controlling the train than the system Sydney Metro is using. The system was 'anticipating' curves and dips and allowing the train to slow naturally instead of powering into curves and hitting the brakes. Stopping alignment was perfect every time.
The system in Sydney appears to be an older style of automation that uses fixed speed steps with the top speed bumped up from 80 to 100km/hr and a centralised train management system. Maybe over time they can dial in the system in Sydney and it will be better, but state-of-the-art it isn't.

There are two approaches to full automation - the older more common one is to basically remote control the trains from the ground - usually the central control room, where the computers have a full overview of the system send instructions out to the area processors who send speed codes to the trains. The weak point is the control room. Lose that, the system stops. The advantage is that the central control knows were EVERY train is and can do some clever optimisations, particularly when recovering from disruptions.

A newer system is to hand autonomy over to a computer onboard the train. Before leaving the depot the train is loaded with it's a diagram, just like a human driver picks up his table-card. Singapore pioneered this approach (and delayed the opening of the NW line by over 6 months while they got the signalling to play nice with the autonomous trains). The train follows it's time table obeying all necessary signals as required. The train has route knowledge so it knows the speeds, where all the curves are, etc. This results in a much better 'driving experience' as the train is anticipating curves and grade changes and doing a decent simulation of a good human driver.

Of course, if something goes wrong, the control room has to create new timetables for each train out there and get them uploaded to the trains in the field, so it's probably a little more difficult to recover from an incident than the central control method. But it also doesn't have that single point of failure.

Metro-style train automation has been around for 50 years. This stuff ain't new.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

I am not a YouTube vlogger. My life is far to busy to be searching for loose bolts or rivets on a train. I will leave that to the "experts". However, as a former commuter on the M7/M2, I can tell you that the new line couldn't come soon enough (but too late for me as I have left the building). The M2 was and remains a car park in peak hour on most days with the toll adding insult to injury. The point I was trying to make is that there have been a continuous run of problems that mainly stem from the trains themselves. I could have pasted in links from news sites detailing every problem, but why bother.

It may have been better to run regular suburban sets across the new Hills line or at the very most, terminate at Epping and let the suburban services take over and disperse the pax. Why heap problems onto travellers that extend as far as Chatswood when this was previously never a problem?

Can our version of a driverless metro ever stack up with those overseas?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I am not a YouTube vlogger. My life is far to busy to be searching for loose bolts or rivets on a train. I will leave that to the "experts". However, as a former commuter on the M7/M2, I can tell you that the new line couldn't come soon enough (but too late for me as I have left the building). The M2 was and remains a car park in peak hour on most days with the toll adding insult to injury. The point I was trying to make is that there have been a continuous run of problems that mainly stem from the trains themselves. I could have pasted in links from news sites detailing every problem, but why bother.

It may have been better to run regular suburban sets across the new Hills line or at the very most, terminate at Epping and let the suburban services take over and disperse the pax. Why heap problems onto travellers that extend as far as Chatswood when this was previously never a problem?

Can our version of a driverless metro ever stack up with those overseas?
ANR
ANR,
Sydney obviously has lots of backlogged issues with its PT system from longterm investment deferral. While the previous govt did invest quite alot in untangling the network, green field trackage was limited to just two routes and 5 new stations, ok more if you count the Airport line started under previous govt, however I credited the SWRL to the ALP govt, not the LNP who inherited the half completed project. So overall after 11 years, 5 new stations to a city of 4m and growing.

The current govt had a mandate to install the NWRL, not a NWRL of X technology. However to continue to build basically  supped up 1960's technology in an era where others are building 21st technology and it just works with demonstrable results and I live in a city with such an example is highly questionable especially if it costs more. Its for this reason I support the Metro approach.

I also support the movement away from an entangled network such that eventually every major line will have its own corridor through the city, not shared. This is benchmark way of doing things OS. Sydney DD network was built on the basis of a small high density corridor with basically very low density suburban lines branching out. This is NOT the network Sydney needs and will have going forward. Hence lines like the NWRL and the Western Metro will support their construction costs in their own right and the Airport line is approaching this as well with most pax using the line generated nth of Wolli Creek.

Are there problems with the Sydney NW Metro, probably, but its still new, I dare say rushed into operation for contractual bonus and political reasons as these things always are, hell the Dubai Metro opened on its magic date of 09.09.09 with just 10 or so stations open and not operating over the full line. I used it 3 mths later on a flying visit to Dubai and most of the stations were still full of work man and the train didn't stop.  This is life! Your comments directed not about the contractors, but rather the whole concept until the post above and hence the feedback you get. Regardless one of the advantages of using contracted services for train running is the onus and incentive is on the contractor to fix the problem for their own bottom line sake.

Yes, comments such as the "Western Metro has only one new station" is just plain stupid and I'm sure you are aware of this. Why don't you go and ask the people in the catchments if the station is new or not?

I thought it would have been obvious why the NWRL Metro was run to Chatswood as the plan always was to run it to the city. so why stop at Epping and make it an orphan.

Yes, I believe that we will see progressively over the next 30- 40 years numerous sections of the existing Sydney DD network surrendered to Automated Metro, just like Paris is doing as train fleets reach end of life and new sections of track get opened. I think most acknowledge the inner section of the network long distant future is towards Metro style as manually operated trains get phased out.

Do I fully agree where the current govt is going? Not at all, but they also have access to the costs, heat maps, commuter routes etc, most of us don't.

Is the govt trying to do too much with the various new rail lines? Likely.

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