Boom Gates From Bell To Moreland Set To Go

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 30 Oct 2019 13:28
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

@bevans - what’s with the continual bashing of Labor, Andrews and the skyrail works. CD9 Skyrail has been a success.

All this heritage stuff is ridiculous. It’s a signal box what’s the complete significance. I understand keeping the older buildings, I am for all of that but when it’s a minuscule thing like a small heritage overlay or something else it becomes ridiculous. Projects shouldn’t be delayed for rubbish things like this.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Not bashing labor at all.  My focus is the a potential compromise with the residents over this one?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Not bashing labor at all.  My focus is the a potential compromise with the residents over this one?
bevans
Are you sure the residents really care about an old signal box???

The majority of them just want the level crossings removed and better cycling tracks and more open space.

I get heritage is important to keep, but these are signal boxes like there are still plenty of old ones that still exist somewhere on the network. The station building are being kept, but you know they are unique to the area.

What makes these particular signal boxes special? The one at Burke road is special since it's on a tram-train junction, and there are not many of those left. Is it really that unique and special to keep?

You could document all the history for it and then demolish it. In 50 years time, would anyone really make a fuss about it being gone?

Idk if I sound harsh about this situation, but I just don't get the sentimental value to those old signal boxes. Is it just an excuse in the news to make a headline for attention to bash the government, to me it looks like it. I don't get the big idea here?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Why do we always hear about extending Upfield north?  Are the empty runs not long enough, we need them all the way to Roxburgh now?

Campbellfield - Broadmeadows - Tullamarine - Airport

Now you've got decent patronage along the whole line, and easy airport access for the city's north.  Too bloody easy.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

@ZH

The long term plan is to run Upfield via Craigieburn to Wallan.

The lower patronage on the upfield line will take the pressure of the huge numbers at Craigieburn and still have plenty of room to pick up Donnybrook and Wallan pax.

Removing these LX’s is a step towards that.

Upfield to Tullamarine, keep dreaming.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Seymour through Craigieburn should be running through Sunshine with the airport link, not puttering about the inner north.

Thinking stations on the Upfield line will remain quiet when the inner north explodes is short-sighted.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Seymour through Craigieburn should be running through Sunshine with the airport link, not puttering about the inner north. Thinking stations on the Upfield line will remain quiet when the inner north explodes is short-sighted.
ZH836301
Never thought I'd say this but I actually agree with @ZH836301! They will have to remove an absolute tonne of level crossings on the Upfield line, and while this could (and probably should) be done, you still get a Seymour service stuck behind slow, stopping all stations trains. Run it via the airport! Give customers the benefit of the convenience of having easy access to the airport! This also makes the Sunshine-Airport section of the line a lot more justifiable.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Not bashing labor at all.  My focus is the a potential compromise with the residents over this one?
bevans
A good compromise would be to allow tour and photography access to the signal (including the project paying for a professional archivist to access it) for a couple of weeks before removing it, delaying the project if needed to do so.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Seymour through Craigieburn should be running through Sunshine with the airport link, not puttering about the inner north. Thinking stations on the Upfield line will remain quiet when the inner north explodes is short-sighted.
Never thought I'd say this but I actually agree with @ZH836301! They will have to remove an absolute tonne of level crossings on the Upfield line, and while this could (and probably should) be done, you still get a Seymour service stuck behind slow, stopping all stations trains. Run it via the airport! Give customers the benefit of the convenience of having easy access to the airport! This also makes the Sunshine-Airport section of the line a lot more justifiable.
reubstar6
I also thought that I'd never agree, until I actually read the time table and realized you are both talking a load of BS.

Melbourne to Seymour is a bit complex on the PTV time table , since there are 3 different trains running:
  • the BG N class to Shepparton (via Essendon line)
  • the SG N class to Albury (via Sunshine/Albion)
  • the BG VLO to Seymour (via Essendon line)

the key is how long does it take to get to Broadmeadows.

Big Surprise:
the BG "getting stuck behind the slow stopping all stations trains" will take 18-26 minutes
the SG express via Albion loop takes 28 minutes
you can believe without any evidence that going via Airport will beat the SAS, I do not.

https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/timetable/1710/seymour-melbourne-via-broadmeadows
click on the additional service info.
The one with buffet car and express is Albury. The other with reservation is Shepparton. The no extras is VLO.

cheers
John
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Can’t be bothered writing out an opinion here but do be aware there are very few VLos to Seymour at the moment: mostly Sprinters but a wide assortment on any given day.

One assumes it will become mostly Sprinters over the next few years as the H sets are retired and lines like Geelong become all-VLo. So it’s their times that are relevant.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Can’t be bothered writing out an opinion here but do be aware there are very few VLos to Seymour at the moment: mostly Sprinters but a wide assortment on any given day.

One assumes it will become mostly Sprinters over the next few years as the H sets are retired and lines like Geelong become all-VLo. So it’s their times that are relevant.
potatoinmymouth
PoTAYto, PoMARto.

Whether it's VLO or Sprinter or a Red Rattler, running behind a SAS on the Esendon line is not as slow as has been postulated.

20 minutes to the Airport and then a dog leg around to Broady, or Craigie, or heaven forbid Wallan, is not going to do any better.

cheers
John
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Given https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/minister-puts-watchdog-back-in-the-box-over-sky-rail-demolitions is there any real reason why the signal box cannot remain?  It is skyrail overall should I would have thought it would be well above the roof line and offset?
bevans

The site is needed for a pier.

You can't put piers in the roadway, which means that piers will go immediately on each side of the current crossing.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Can’t be bothered writing out an opinion here but do be aware there are very few VLos to Seymour at the moment: mostly Sprinters but a wide assortment on any given day.

One assumes it will become mostly Sprinters over the next few years as the H sets are retired and lines like Geelong become all-VLo. So it’s their times that are relevant.
PoTAYto, PoMARto.

Whether it's VLO or Sprinter or a Red Rattler, running behind a SAS on the Esendon line is not as slow as has been postulated.

20 minutes to the Airport and then a dog leg around to Broady, or Craigie, or heaven forbid Wallan, is not going to do any better.

cheers
John
justarider
Gone way off the thread topic. haha.

@ZH in one post you complaining about empty cars from Upfield to Roxy, then all of a sudden those empty cars are full. You can't have it both ways. Plain and Simple the Upfield line has the ability to handle the growth from Wallan and Donnybrook. Craigieburn does not, barley functioning as it is with the current pax. Those inner north stations have the benefit of having serval PT options such as trams and inner city buses that the outer suburbs do not.
Once MM1 opens there will be plenty of slack to pick up those from Royal Park to Coburg plus the fringe dwellers of Wallan.

I can't really see Seymour need more than 2 services an hour for the next few years at least. Upfield can handle the 2 or 3 trains from Seymour along with 10 TPH for the Metro Pax.

As has been mentioned before across a few threads, bigger time savings can be made before V/line services reach the outer suburban marker. Running Wallan to Seymour at 130/160kph will save more time that routing via the Airport. The only way this would ever get re routed is if the Upfield line could not accommodate the TPH and Pax was booming out in the country. Anything less won't justify the cost of a new Green-fields railway.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
I don't think you realise the scale of the urban renewal that is going to take place in the inner north.

We're talking about conservative population increases of 50% in some parts within two decades, and without proper planning it is going to be a nightmare.  There is not going to be space on either line for trains to just trundle through not servicing anything.  These lines will need to become proper metro services, along with most other lines in the city, and running any form of express service will become impossible.

Big Surprise:
the BG "getting stuck behind the slow stopping all stations trains" will take 18-26 minutes
the SG express via Albion loop takes 28 minutes
you can believe without any evidence that going via Airport will beat the SAS, I do not.
justarider
Timetables reveal nothing but the ineptitude of current rail planning in this state.

Broadmeadows to Southern Cross via Essendon is about 30 minutes, but it's academic regardless, since when that's running every 5 minutes there won't be any space for any express services anyway.  It shouldn't take much more than 20 minutes from Southern Cross to Broadmeadows and the airport (separately, I never said via) through Sunshine, which should already be evident as Vline currently manages to dawdle to Sunshine in 12 minutes.

We need to start implementing infrastructure upgrades properly, not just keep applying bandaids.

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