It's the economy, stupid!

 
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
doesn't really matter how many lights you leave on when they're a fraction of incandescent lighting of decades ago and even cheaper than compact fluorescent.
don_dunstan

My dear dad (lived through WWII) would still insist on only ever having one light on in the house at a time if he were still alive. My wife still goes crook at me for not turning lights off even though I have explained over and over again that there is no need!

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, you just don't like woman of a superior intellect to you.
There'd be thousands of them.Very Happy
Valvegear
That woman wouldn't be smarter than me... more cunning perhaps. The only reason she got to PM was her back-stabbing skills - exceptional.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Nah, the governments can print more money, and as long as the inflation rate is OK life goes on.
nswtrains
We don't want to end up like the Wiemar Republic.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Don, you just don't like woman of a superior intellect to you.
There'd be thousands of them.Very Happy
That woman wouldn't be smarter than me... more cunning perhaps. The only reason she got to PM was her back-stabbing skills - exceptional.
don_dunstan
Julia's prowess with a bladed weapon is no superior than Abbott, Rudd, Turnball or Scomo.
A sitting PM, or opposition leader, should insist that meetings are conducted at a round table, ie, back is not exposed.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Incandescent or LED the light still uses more power on than off, but granted, I illuminate my entire patio which is greater than 12x4m with an entire 2W (at the wall) of LEDs. At night it’s quite bright, you can comfortably read out there, during the day it’s not really noticeable. Some times I forget they’re on and leave them on for days at a time, who cares.

CCFL and fluorescent lights in particular are a different matter. If you’re constantly turning them off to turn them on again when you return to the room then you’re doing yourself a disservice.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
nswtrains, nice theory about the NDIS, but please enlighten us as to exactly how one takes funds from an unfunded thing. That’s like saying ‘I don’t have any money to buy a car, so I used that money to buy a boat instead’.

The NDIS was an horrendous waste of money, I have posted here before about a friend of mine who worked as OT within the NDIS system. She was undertaking appointments with clients that were simply not required and providing therapy that wasn’t required to people all because her organisation had a whole bunch of funds dumped into it and superiors had the usual ‘use it, or we will lose it’ mentality.

There was no concern for where the funding actually needed to go, if indeed it needed to go anywhere, so upset with the blatant waste she resigned, remained unemployed for a few months and then went and got a job in the UK. She’s since returned home and works in a different role.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
My dear dad (lived through WWII) would still insist on only ever having one light on in the house at a time if he were still alive. My wife still goes crook at me for not turning lights off even though I have explained over and over again that there is no need!
Graham4405

Incandescent or LED the light still uses more power on than off, but granted, I illuminate my entire patio which is greater than 12x4m with an entire 2W (at the wall) of LEDs. At night it’s quite bright, you can comfortably read out there, during the day it’s not really noticeable. Some times I forget they’re on and leave them on for days at a time, who cares.

CCFL and fluorescent lights in particular are a different matter. If you’re constantly turning them off to turn them on again when you return to the room then you’re doing yourself a disservice.
Aaron
Exactly, the actual cost of lighting your house with LED is so incredibly small in comparison to the old days of incandescent that you might as well leave them on when you aren't in the room. As Aaron says turning fluorescent lights on and off will shorten their lives considerably - LED doesn't have this problem but because the cost of running is so incredibly low then why bother?

At our house we have the lounge lights operating off a timer and the total is only 30 watts for eight pedestal/table lamps and it saves us having to turn them on/off individually - the total cost of running is bugger all. We bought one of those watt-meter things a few years back so we check how much power these things are consuming and as we've already discussed modern LED lighting is bugger all.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
nswtrains, nice theory about the NDIS, but please enlighten us as to exactly how one takes funds from an unfunded thing. That’s like saying ‘I don’t have any money to buy a car, so I used that money to buy a boat instead’.

The NDIS was an horrendous waste of money, I have posted here before about a friend of mine who worked as OT within the NDIS system. She was undertaking appointments with clients that were simply not required and providing therapy that wasn’t required to people all because her organisation had a whole bunch of funds dumped into it and superiors had the usual ‘use it, or we will lose it’ mentality.

There was no concern for where the funding actually needed to go, if indeed it needed to go anywhere, so upset with the blatant waste she resigned, remained unemployed for a few months and then went and got a job in the UK. She’s since returned home and works in a different role.
Aaron
Andrew Bolt has covered this occasionally, there's a lot of money being spent on things like gardening services and home modifications, personal carers, etc etc when there's no evidence that these things will help with a client's specific situation. Like with the VET-FEE-HELP thing the system has turned into a honeypot for shonks to exploit and there simply isn't enough oversight.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Uuumm

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview201819/NationalDisability

So after about 7 years of LNP government, when are they going to take responsibility for the mess that it's in? Oh hang on. it's all Labors fault.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Uuumm

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview201819/NationalDisability

So after about 7 years of LNP government, when are they going to take responsibility for the mess that it's in? Oh hang on. it's all Labors fault.
wobert
Hey, wobert, see LNP talking points.
Cleaning up labors mess. And any other word play.
At what point does a government take responsibility?
One term is enough.
Tempted to have a lash at Scumo,,,
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I've never seen a mob like this lot Mick. The sheer audacity, with the bare faced lying. Not forgetting the do nothingness,and absolutely devoid of policy or policy development. And as for the Australian electorate,we get the government we vote for. What was it old Winston said about a conversation with the average voter.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Uuumm

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview201819/NationalDisability

So after about 7 years of LNP government, when are they going to take responsibility for the mess that it's in? Oh hang on. it's all Labors fault.
wobert
The last part of that report where they talk about what a huge slush fund it is for job creation is quite telling - there's hundreds of thousands of people being employed directly and indirectly by this scheme and its helping by contributing to GDP and jobs growth.

But yeah, still arguing about Labor's role in it is feeble after nearly seven years... much as I hated that serial incompetent Gillard at least she tried to do something enduring for Australia's profoundly disabled people even if it was executed badly. Tony Abbott's failed equivalent was that 24-carat maternity leave scheme which was such a dumb piece of rich-person welfare it thoroughly deserves to be buried and forgotten about.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
From memory Don I think the Gillard Gov had only got to setting up 12 to 18 month trials in a number of places, to find out the issues and problems. They might have got a bit further but I think they got turfed before the full roll out got done.  And I do remember a whole heap of people on talkback and other media who were directly affected by the original ALP proposals, being absolutely over the moon with what it means to them.Sure there would be issues over the first few years,just like the introduction of Medicare all those years ago. But here we are nigh on 7 years later, and it's a debacle, just like the NBN. It's all on this mob now.

Having politicized and hollowed out the public service, frank and fearless advice has been replaced with spin and political point scoring provided by unqualified political apparatchiks. Leading to probably the worst government in Australias history. And easily the most dishonest, ministerial responsibility, that's only for everybody else.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Some of these carbon mitigation schemes are plain insane. This latest one from the EU takes the cake - The Times reports that an Irish coal-fired power station might soon be converted into burning "bio-chips" which is code for wood-chips from other parts of the planet. Generally a low grade kind of timber pellet from what I can tell from my Googling. Anyway The Times says the equivalent of 223 sq km of forest burnt every year to fuel the new power plant which is at Moneypoint plant which even according to respected science shows marginal 'carbon mitigation' gain over burning coal. Poor quality timber (rainforest?) converted into pellets in another country and shipped halfway across the world to be burnt in Ireland - surely less efficient than coal which is the higher efficiency version of timber?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
From memory Don I think the Gillard Gov had only got to setting up 12 to 18 month trials in a number of places, to find out the issues and problems. They might have got a bit further but I think they got turfed before the full roll out got done.  And I do remember a whole heap of people on talkback and other media who were directly affected by the original ALP proposals, being absolutely over the moon with what it means to them.Sure there would be issues over the first few years,just like the introduction of Medicare all those years ago. But here we are nigh on 7 years later, and it's a debacle, just like the NBN. It's all on this mob now.

Having politicized and hollowed out the public service, frank and fearless advice has been replaced with spin and political point scoring provided by unqualified political apparatchiks. Leading to probably the worst government in Australias history. And easily the most dishonest, ministerial responsibility, that's only for everybody else.
wobert
And at the risk of turning this into a nauseating mutual admiration society (like a 2GB interview!) I'd have to agree that Kevin Rudd's National Broadband Network had disaster written all over it from the very started when he declared it 'future proof' (really?) and also the estimated cost of fibre-to-the-node right from the get-go. I think Rudd should have stuck with developing the existing mobile phone network to service rural and remote areas (4G then under development) and left the provision of fibre to urban Australia's already private sector operators - Telstra, Optus et al. The government should have been the provider where it was uneconomical, it would have kept the scale of the program tiny in comparison to the dinosaur that we ended up with.

And before Valvegear, Groundrelay et al pull me I'd have to concur that Abbott, Tunbull and Morrison have only made the situation worse with their subsequent tampering and hindrance to competition... the latest hurdle for the competition being a non-NBN provider tax take of $7 per month is only designed to corral business and private sector into the upcoming privatisation of the whole thing. Probably at a loss of tens of billions years after some forgotten PM's brain fart.

Hooray, Aussie taxpayers win again...
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Europe’s ‘energy policy’ is a joke, Germany forcing other ‘continental’ European countries (for your benefit mehjammers1) to shut down their high productivity, bulk energy producing, low carbon, working over night and in absence of convective air currents, nuclear power plants often to replaced by coal.

Proud to say that Poland remains committed to telling the rest of Europe and Germany in particular to smeg off, working outside European borders with a view to install up to eight (and we can hope for more) nuclear reactors to lessen their (frankly shocking amounts of) coal use.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Europe’s ‘energy policy’ is a joke, Germany forcing other ‘continental’ European countries (for your benefit mehjammers1) to shut down their high productivity, bulk energy producing, low carbon, working over night and in absence of convective air currents, nuclear power plants often to replaced by coal.

Proud to say that Poland remains committed to telling the rest of Europe and Germany in particular to smeg off, working outside European borders with a view to install up to eight (and we can hope for more) nuclear reactors to lessen their (frankly shocking amounts of) coal use.
Aaron
Nuclear is inevitable if we can't burn coal domestically any longer - if not an if or but question - we really need one or the other to provide the stable base-load the national grid requires.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
More ABC propaganda -

Australian retailers are facing their worst Christmas shopping season since the global financial crisis more than a decade ago as fires burn across the country.

The bushfire crisis has come on top of already weak consumer spending as people save rather than spend their tax and interest rate cuts.

Russell Zimmerman, head of the Australian Retailers Association, said he expected to see the weakest Christmas spending in 11 years.

"Talking to retailers, it's been a much softer lead-in to Christmas than we've seen in the past," he said.

"We know when there's a lot of smoke haze around, consumers tend to bunker down and stay at home and they're not out spending money."

Really - I though consumers having seven years of nil wages growth would have done the same thing...
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
And before Valvegear, Groundrelay et al pull me I'd have to concur that Abbott, Tunbull and Morrison have only made the situation worse ...
don_dunstan
As usual you bang out chapter and verse attacking one side then throw in a 'them too' line just to prove just how balanced you are Rolling Eyes
As for your superior economic managers.
The number of Australians who have dropped their private health insurance in the past five years is likely to top 2.2 million, a figure that will heap further pressure upon federal Health Minister Greg Hunt to tackle premium affordability as the funds prepare to hike them again.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/more-than-2-million-dropped-their-health-insurance-in-the-past-five-years-poll-suggests-20191227-p53n84.html
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
And before Valvegear, Groundrelay et al pull me I'd have to concur that Abbott, Tunbull and Morrison have only made the situation worse ...
As usual you bang out chapter and verse attacking one side then throw in a 'them too' line just to prove just how balanced you are Rolling Eyes
As for your superior economic managers.
Groundrelay
I challenge you to find where I have ever - EVER - called the Liberal Party 'superior economic managers'.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I challenge you to find where I have ever - EVER - called the Liberal Party 'superior economic managers'.
"don_dunstan"
Nobody said you did.  The Libs say it all the time. Presumably anyone who embraces the Libs would believe it.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I challenge you to find where I have ever - EVER - called the Liberal Party 'superior economic managers'.
Nobody said you did.  The Libs say it all the time. Presumably anyone who embraces the Libs would believe it.
Valvegear
Yes he did: Groundrelay just said "YOUR superior economic managers". Where have I ever called them that?

He constantly accuses me of bias because I hate the pathetic, un-electable mess that the Labor Party has become - but that's just how it is. As if to underscore how hopeless they are their primary polling is fall - STILL - despite the fact that ScoMo is making a dog's breakfast of the bushfire thing and they should be capitalising on it.

Hopeless, couldn't organise the proverbial p*ss up in a brewery.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I challenge you to find where I have ever - EVER - called the Liberal Party 'superior economic managers'.
Nobody said you did.  The Libs say it all the time. Presumably anyone who embraces the Libs would believe it.
Valvegear
I just assumed all LNP supporters like Don thought that.

I have to look up Fabians for their number.

Unlike Don I have no reason to "hate" the mob he vocally doesn't not support. I don't think the LNP are particularly better at managing anything but they are more politically savvy.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I just assumed all LNP supporters like Don thought that.
Groundrelay
Can't see how I'm a 'supporter', I have never - not once - voted LNP in my life.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I just assumed all LNP supporters like Don thought that.
Can't see how I'm a 'supporter', I have never - not once - voted LNP in my life.
don_dunstan
Don belongs to the Fence Sitters Party with the right to be right on all occasions, even when he is not right. You just can't win. Just a question Don, do your parents happen to be Croation or something similar?

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