Andrews Government scraps rail container subsidy?

 
  skitz Chief Commissioner

You supply no proof it's fake news till then.
C2
Rather presumptuous statement.

The issue I have heard reported on the ABC rural report three weeks or so ago.  The issue was the lack of year on year certainty tothe arrangment.   The company chose to go to road as it couldnt deal with the risk of the constant 'maybe' of the subsidy arrangment preventing locking in of contracts.

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  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
You supply no proof it's fake news till then.
C2

You dopey troll. If you bothered to read the whole thread first you would see I confirmed that Mr Stroker's original post was in fact correct.

Due to the sensitive nature of some of the information we can't always reveal our sources.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
dopey troll
bingley hall
Im going to borrow this for other conversations...
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Mr bingley hall , do you understand the situation now you’ve spoken to your contact
Richard stroker

My response a couple of posts above confirmed this.

I am told that the state government is working with the Port of Melbourne to implement its Rail Access Strategy which will reduce rail container handling costs at the Port and obviate the ongoing need for the Mode Shift Incentive Scheme.

Unfortunately it would appear there is a disconnect in the timeline for this strategy which has already seen some traffic lost to road.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This suggests the cost of handling a container from a rail wagon is more then it is for a truck?
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

To further add to your “ dopey troll “ comment bingley, I am pretty sure there is a regular Railpage Australia™ poster that knows about the mode shift but has chosen not to comment, ,,,,,, which is not surprising given the BS ,,,,,,political mumbo jumbo and conspiracy theories  that C2 dishes up . I’m sure most people on hear understand, like you have said , To protect the source of information not all can be posted .
J ward at Ararat is on the western line , maybe C2 can have a look around there.
  C2 Junior Train Controller

So you can't tell us what's in the containers that top secret too. Is it a container of Hay or simple basic stuff used daily with no time restraint.. It may be written and digested by the mockers. I can't see Andrews doing this with out it being throw in his face as a bad decision by um the greens or libs or nats. It's a free kick if they want it.
  C2 Junior Train Controller

I can't find edit button I've ask DThead (conspiracy) so I read the mode shift. Andrews has spent 20 million since 2014 with 4 million  for 19/20. Its on four lines so a million a line . Doohen gets  a million that about $13,000 a week or 90 containers is $200 odd each subsidy. They are a multi million dollar company on the free market.There  stock price would fluctuate more then the handouts. Or best 4 million bang for buck spent by Andrews.. Will more containers move to road or has it.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
To further add to your “ dopey troll “ comment bingley, I am pretty sure there is a regular Railpage Australia™ poster that knows about the mode shift but has chosen not to comment, ,,,,,, which is not surprising given the BS ,,,,,,political mumbo jumbo and conspiracy theories  that C2 dishes up . I’m sure most people on hear understand, like you have said , To protect the source of information not all can be posted .
J ward at Ararat is on the western line , maybe C2 can have a look around there.
Richard stroker
Agreed, many people who post on these boards are privy to information that is not in the public domain. Sometimes they may choose to post something that they see as in the public / railfan interest and sometimes they may do this under pseudonyms or by passing the info to another person to post. Whichever way they do it they are hardly going to risk their job / membership of an organisation / friendship etc by revealing the source of their info. If everyone was forced to reveal their sources for the sake of a few who won't believe anything until there is proof of it then a lot of stuff wouldn't get posted. Simples.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I can't find edit button I've ask DThead (conspiracy) so I read the mode shift. Andrews has spent 20 million since 2014 with 4 million  for 19/20. Its on four lines so a million a line . Doohen gets  a million that about $13,000 a week or 90 containers is $200 odd each subsidy. They are a multi million dollar company on the free market.There  stock price would fluctuate more then the handouts. Or best 4 million bang for buck spent by Andrews.. Will more containers move to road or has it.
C2

That is a good investment if you consider the cost of road does not include ALL on costs. The question to my mind is still why does it cost $200 more to deliver a container by train to the Port of Melbourne over a truck movement?

I believe Melbourne raised its port charges in 2019 but was it for both modes?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
When are we going to see the PoM rail strategy?  It has apparently been drafted and was being hyped at one stage soon after the sale but it hasn't been released...
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

The cost formula the C2 was come up with is not an indicator of subsidies. It’s a per container cost , not a per train line subsidy.

Unless the is a direct train connection at the loading point of a container, the container has to be loaded onto a truck , taken to a train terminal and unloaded and from my understanding there is no ship side train line in Melbourne ,which would require another unload before being loaded onto a ship , all of that takes time .
I will assume no one will do that work for free
  C2 Junior Train Controller

But the Gov says Doohen so it's SCT train from Doohen , who got the million to use untill EFY and are  using trucks .
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The cost formula the C2 was come up with is not an indicator of subsidies. It’s a per container cost , not a per train line subsidy.

Unless the is a direct train connection at the loading point of a container, the container has to be loaded onto a truck , taken to a train terminal and unloaded and from my understanding there is no ship side train line in Melbourne ,which would require another unload before being loaded onto a ship , all of that takes time .
I will assume no one will do that work for free
Richard stroker

There are rail access to the dock for West Swanston Dock and Appleton Dock in Melbourne. Trains can connect to the port on those docks.  There could be others.

Not sure about Geelong but no intermodal there yet.
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

By rail access do you mean train pulls up beside ship and the container gets loaded straight onto the ship?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
By rail access do you mean train pulls up beside ship and the container gets loaded straight onto the ship?
Richard stroker
What ports does this happen at ?

I would expect dock side container sorting and storage, takes place between when the ship Is unloaded and when the train Is loaded.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
By rail access do you mean train pulls up beside ship and the container gets loaded straight onto the ship?
What ports does this happen at ?

I would expect dock side container sorting and storage, takes place between when the ship Is unloaded and when the train Is loaded.
Nightfire

Newcastle?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
By rail access do you mean train pulls up beside ship and the container gets loaded straight onto the ship?
Richard stroker
And does that actually happen? A container ship loads a lot more than a couple of trains worth of boxes.

I would have thought that the point of rail dock access was to limit double handling as each extra movement costs $$$. So the train pulls onto the dock and the containers are offloaded into storage areas within reach of the cranes to prevent this extra work?

I can't imagine that it would be all that efficient to be loading direct from trains to ships from a time point of view.

Quite happy to be corrected of course!
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
By rail access do you mean train pulls up beside ship and the container gets loaded straight onto the ship?
Richard stroker
Sorry going to clarify my agree here just in case.

On dock rail access means that the train pulls onto a road on the dock, and the container crane lifts the container onto the dock (in a prearranged position for efficient ship loading).  Then when the ship arrives, it is loaded direct from dock to ship.  And vice versa for imports.

Where the train cannot pull onto the dock directly, it has to go somewhere else (eg Dynon) and the truck has to collect it from the terminal and take it to the dock.  This additional movement adds cost.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What port docks in Melbourne are no longer rail connected?

Webb Dock (Thanks to Jeff Kennett and later Daniel Andrews)
Swanston Dock
Marribynong Sidings

Any others?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

Newcastle?
bevans
Not used for regular container loading.

This siding In Carrington Is used for unusual unique loading like shipments of locomotives and rolling stock.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
By rail access do you mean train pulls up beside ship and the container gets loaded straight onto the ship?
Sorry going to clarify my agree here just in case.

On dock rail access means that the train pulls onto a road on the dock, and the container crane lifts the container onto the dock (in a prearranged position for efficient ship loading).  Then when the ship arrives, it is loaded direct from dock to ship.  And vice versa for imports.

Where the train cannot pull onto the dock directly, it has to go somewhere else (eg Dynon) and the truck has to collect it from the terminal and take it to the dock.  This additional movement adds cost.
james.au
If you look at major ports around the World, like Port of Long Beach (Los Angeles) Port of Rotterdam, trains don't go onto the wharf under the ship loading cranes, the rail sidings are at the back of the container storage / sorting / customs yard (just like the container rail sidings at Appleton Dock and West Swanston Dock at the Port of Melbourne)

Mobile cranes (straddle carriers) move the containers around the container port precinct (these are what's becoming automated)
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
By rail access do you mean train pulls up beside ship and the container gets loaded straight onto the ship?
Sorry going to clarify my agree here just in case.

On dock rail access means that the train pulls onto a road on the dock, and the container crane lifts the container onto the dock (in a prearranged position for efficient ship loading).  Then when the ship arrives, it is loaded direct from dock to ship.  And vice versa for imports.

Where the train cannot pull onto the dock directly, it has to go somewhere else (eg Dynon) and the truck has to collect it from the terminal and take it to the dock.  This additional movement adds cost.
If you look at major ports around the World, like Port of Long Beach (Los Angeles) Port of Rotterdam, trains don't go onto the wharf under the ship loading cranes, the rail sidings are at the back of the container storage / sorting / customs yard (just like the container rail sidings at Appleton Dock and West Swanston Dock at the Port of Melbourne)

Mobile cranes (straddle carriers) move the containers around the container port precinct (these are what's becoming automated)
Nightfire
As you say it is the road leg in the suburbs and around the Port that we should be trying to eliminate where rail would eliminate/reduce the air and noise pollution plus the truck congestion.

Rail should handle the containers between satellite terminals in the outer suburbs closer to industry etc and the actual port.

It will NEVER happen in Melbourne, of course.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
As you say it is the road leg in the suburbs and around the Port that we should be trying to eliminate where rail would eliminate/reduce the air and noise pollution plus the truck congestion.

Rail should handle the containers between satellite terminals in the outer suburbs closer to industry etc and the actual port.

It will NEVER happen in Melbourne, of course.
YM-Mundrabilla
It all comes down to the all mighty $
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I think it is all political.  If the all mighty dollar was taken seriously it would have already happened.

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