3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

 
  lachyb Station Staff

@DCook

I think that the sanders on the locomotive have been totally changed from original configuration. I believe it now has trailing sands on the driving wheels.

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  studdo Locomotive Fireman

Agree about 3830, I always preferred non-streamlined 38s. What would be great would be if 30’s boiler was repaired like 01’s. From what I understand it shouldn’t otherwise take that long to get 30 back in service if the boiler repairs went ok as it is apparently in reasonably good mechanical condition - that’s why 30 was originally slated to have boiler repairs without a boiler lift.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
If you read some of the older posts on this thread that talk about this the immense scale of some of the boiler repairs necessary becomes apparent and in one article it says that 3830 will need a full boiler lift and potentially severe boiler repairs, possibly even a new boiler, before it returns to service
  ssaunders Train Controller

Steam up today, might even been seen from the Hume Highway side as it might move over that side for some checking.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
So this will be another test in the yard
  ssaunders Train Controller

So this will be another test in the yard
DCook

I think might visiting the scale for a weigh in before it goes to Thirlmere later this month.
  a6et Minister for Railways

If you read some of the older posts on this thread that talk about this the immense scale of some of the boiler repairs necessary becomes apparent and in one article it says that 3830 will need a full boiler lift and potentially severe boiler repairs, possibly even a new boiler, before it returns to service
DCook
IF, & that word is the biggest in the English dictionary, IF the old boiler used on 3801 had to be lifted and basically rebuilt even though it was said to be beyond repair and cost factors associated with it, then why cannot the boiler be repaired especially in the specific damaged areas?

I have heard and read multiple posts as to the damage and so many have vagaries associated with them, same with the German Boiler which has been said in some area's that its primarily scrap only, yet others have indicated that once 01 is back in service there is a plan to fix the German one and it could be then used on either 20 or 30, or as spare.  As for the boiler on 20, same applies, as I read where the only problem is that a section of it had to be cut out and used on one of the others, therefore stuffing it for future use.

What is truth in this whole saga.  Having just 01 and the nanny as the primary main line steamers for express type working is a bit on the lean size, unless there is still the prospect of one of the pigs getting a reprieve and that's not as if there are no spare boilers for them either.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

a6, 13,s boiler had a bit chopped out for IIRC inspection purposes, for 01 initial resto in 1986, making it beyond repair. Open to correction.
Was not aware of 3820 being used for bits at all.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I would probably say that it was more likely that bits were chopped out of 3813's boiler, if you look closely in some pictures of the boiler you can see small access holes from some angles
Also if chunks were chopped out of 3820's boiler then wouldn't that make the "As retired" condition pointless
  a6et Minister for Railways

a6, 13,s boiler had a bit chopped out for IIRC inspection purposes, for 01 initial resto in 1986, making it beyond repair. Open to correction.
Was not aware of 3820 being used for bits at all.
michaelgm
I would say that the boiler of 13 which was overhauled prior to Shirley sending it to the back of Clyde wagon works in the paddock is likely beyond anything of value except for scrap, how long has it sat out in the rust heap at Dorrigo, if there was some cutting out from the boiler and I have a fellow who might know and will contact him for an answer if he knows, then combined with rust and the cut out, nothing more needs to be said.

There was a debate on an early RP post that said that there was some area cut out of 20 and used on one of the active 38's that would presume to mean 01 & 30, it was certainly post 20 being put as a static 38 and represent the black 38's. I may be wrong but have a suspicion that it was part of the firebox or foundation rings.

Just my opinion though, I simply believe that there needs to be more than just 2 primary tour loco's capable of at least 70mph it allows for a reasonable number of tours to be run and having backups where needed.  The heavy work load placed on 3642 is an example of that, the delays also to 01 has not helped things either.   Now with the German boiler being either scrap value or able to have the errors fixed, and the company that has done 01's boiler is likely more than capable of fixing that, get it back & into 20 or 30, preferably 30 at first owing to the extra air through pipes and mods down to it makes it an obvious first choice but we should not just turn our backs on 20 either, makes for a better shared work load for the main loco's.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

I don't think anything has gone from 3820. It is kept complete and unchanged as it was when in service. This would preclude it from ever being overhauled and returned to running order. I think this Museumism is over done but the curators of what ever have so decreed.
That just leaves 3830 as the most likely if another 38 were to be put back into service.
All these locomotives are still the property of the NSW State Govt so a change in 3820's status might be difficult to effect.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I don't think anything has gone from 3820. It is kept complete and unchanged as it was when in service. This would preclude it from ever being overhauled and returned to running order. I think this Museumism is over done but the curators of what ever have so decreed.
That just leaves 3830 as the most likely if another 38 were to be put back into service.
All these locomotives are still the property of the NSW State Govt so a change in 3820's status might be difficult to effect.
neillfarmer
Neil,  If 20 is complete and unchanged from its in service days, then there is nothing preventing it from being returned to service, except the money needed.  Assuming there is nothing actually that has been taken from it, especially in regard to the boiler, the aspect of it being merely boiler life expired, or the reality of that being that as it was due for inspection and re-certification at the time of its final withdrawal there is no reason why, like the boiler on 01 which was not deemed to be good enough and why the German fiasco developed it is repairable within certain conditions.  Even something crazy like 01 endured with the BP reduced by 25psi for some time.

As for 30, wasn't there something critical in its condition that forced it off the rails?  Its quite bemusing really when a lot of money was spent on its overhaul at HVT and had a basically short life span afterwards.  I have heard more than enough rumours as to why its no longer serviceable to the point I have no idea about what gives with any of them.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I find it unlikely that nothing has been taken from 3820, obviously broken parts from the operations of 3801 and 3830 have been switched into 3820

All that I heard was that there was major crown stay damage
Apparently in 2013 the boiler inspector gave 3830 it's boiler certificate, then two weeks later he want back and the boiler was in such bad condition that the certificate was suddenly revoked, the reason for the damage is still unknown
(information from this thread https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11373832-0-asc-s0.htm)
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

I find it unlikely that nothing has been taken from 3820, obviously broken parts from the operations of 3801 and 3830 have been switched into 3820

All that I heard was that there was major crown stay damage
Apparently in 2013 the boiler inspector gave 3830 it's boiler certificate, then two weeks later he want back and the boiler was in such bad condition that the certificate was suddenly revoked, the reason for the damage is still unknown
(information from this thread https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11373832-0-asc-s0.htm)
DCook
If a boiler Certificate was issued and revoked two weeks later after trials, the reason would be known.
How that/those issues arose would likely be known as well.
Appears rightly or wrongly (and I don’t particularly have a view either way) this is not for public consumption.
Curious as to the size of rug required to sweep a 38 under.
Given the saga with 3801,s boiler, which appears at an end, may have the correct call to hang on.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

I think you misunderstood my comments on 3820's status. As every bit on it is as it was when in service the curators have decided that it should stay that way. So 3801 and 3830 can have bits manufactured and fitted to replace worn out bits but 3820 cannot. It has to stay as it was when in service.
In regards 3830, it was given what can best be described as a tone-up, a hydro and a boiler certificate. Somebody then decided to acid clean the boiler and it went on a test run. On this test run numerous leaks appeared and the boiler inspector withdrew the boiler certificate.
NSWTM then, in trying to decide what was the best way forward to getting a 38 class operational inspected the boilers of both 3801 and 3830. The inspection of 3830 showed that there was severe corrosion around the top of the firebox. Given that both boilers were in very poor condition they elected to proceed with 3801's overhaul taking it back to as new condition as possible. A lot of 'short-cuts' done in the past have been repaired correctly.
I have not heard what they intend to do next. there are a number of options. eg, using the team and experience gained on 3801 put 3830 back into service, overhaul 3642, overhaul another 36 class, 3616 or 3609.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I have not heard what they intend to do next. there are a number of options. eg, using the team and experience gained on 3801 put 3830 back into service, overhaul 3642, overhaul another 36 class, 3616 or 3609.
neillfarmer
3609 is out of the picture as it has been transferred to Junee for static display
3616 though seems like a good contender for restoration

Just an idea though, what if they took the power reverser off 3642 and installed it on 3616. That would combine two of the most economic upgrades and potentially make a superior 36 class
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
After all this time 3801 has just done a mainline trial, Sydney Trains Vlogs recorded it going through Chester Hill today


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDQuGjUtuPo
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Nice clipped exhaust, no smoke, no excessive steam leaks, very good indeed. . .nice to see her back again.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
It'll be interesting to see if many people even know what 3801 is
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It'll be interesting to see if many people even know what 3801 is
DCook
Nice to see some female fans who seem to know what 3801 is. I think more people than you might think.
  a6et Minister for Railways

After all this time 3801 has just done a mainline trial, Sydney Trains Vlogs recorded it going through Chester Hill today


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDQuGjUtuPo
DCook
Nice and busy video.

Still has an impeded whistle though without the distinct 38cl chime sound.  One can only assume its working well under the BP for this to sound, its more typical of a 36cl whistle without the air pressure cutting it in.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I think it would be a good PR move for THNSW, once the fires are out, to do what Steamrail did after Victoria's devastating 2009 fires and run a 3801 tour around suburban Sydney and NSW  (where water is available) and have all proceeds go to the bush fire relief fund
  a6et Minister for Railways

I have not heard what they intend to do next. there are a number of options. eg, using the team and experience gained on 3801 put 3830 back into service, overhaul 3642, overhaul another 36 class, 3616 or 3609.
3609 is out of the picture as it has been transferred to Junee for static display
3616 though seems like a good contender for restoration

Just an idea though, what if they took the power reverser off 3642 and installed it on 3616. That would combine two of the most economic upgrades and potentially make a superior 36 class
DCook
Why would the fitting of the air reverser make it any more superior to having the standard reverser?

Significantly the reason why those pigs that were fitted with those air assisted reversers was to allow them to be used on pick up trains and shunting with them. I worked on several of the pigs with the air assisted reversers, on both through goods trains in the late 60's and ones with ordinary reversers, for me two of my favourites in that time were split equally between one of each type and they being on through down goods trains to Goulburn.

On the pick up services, when an air assisted reverser was not available, a 59cl or if available a 38cl would be used. A late concession was provided by crews by agreeing to a single put off, or pick up on the trains, not on one of the 3 up pick ups hauled by steam. 2 Pigs were at Broad, for working the pick ups or other services when the 59 or freighters were on them.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
From what I have read on similar threads in the past the power reversers seemed to be well liked by crew

On your comment on the 38 and 59 class, that would make sense, the power reversers having been donated to the pigs by retired 38s and 57s

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