3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

 
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
Weather permitting, Wed on the loop line and Fri to Moss Vale.
ssaunders
Wed 5th Feb - Thirlmere - Picton (Landmark) - Thirlmere
Thur 6th Feb - Thirlmere - Picton - Moss Vale - Picton - Thirlmere

11th or 12th Feb possibly see 3016 transferred to Canberra.

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  studdo Locomotive Fireman

515 - any idea of times?
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

According to THNSW Facebook, 3801's mainline trial on Thursday 6 Feb (today) departs Picton at 9.25am, arrives Moss Vale 11.00am. Departs Moss Vale 12.35pm, arrives Picton 1.45pm. It says it is not expected to enter the station platforms at Picton and Moss vale.

Bevan Wall's coverage of Wednesday's trials on the Loop Line is great to watch.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Video by Bevan Wall:

[quote]
What a day!
Enjoy,
BW
[url=https://youtu.be/EZFrbLWJ1AQ]https:

[/quote]
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
DCook
A valuable resource. Thanks to DCook for posting it.

Sadly page 98 seems to be missing but this is of minor matter only.

One does not often see such an informative, yet readable, document about anything these days.

To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
  a6et Minister for Railways

Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
A valuable resource. Thanks to DCook for posting it.

Sadly page 98 seems to be missing but this is of minor matter only.

One does not often see such an informative, yet readable, document about anything these days.

To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
YM-Mundrabilla
Agree regarding that the 38cl was the most technically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia at the time, there was a lot to like about them, and for those who worked on them during their hey days, with good drivers the experienced firemen could make them sing, especially on Passenger Trains.  It was a harder task though when on goods trains and long grades, as it was pretty much continual and not so easy work.

From my time on them, 3 stand out and 01 is not in the list. 02, 23 & 29, were my picks, they seemed a lot freer in steaming and not as heavy on coal.  Others I would put in front of 01 were 07, 11, 18, 25 & 30.
  lyntonh Station Staff

Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
A valuable resource. Thanks to DCook for posting it.

Sadly page 98 seems to be missing but this is of minor matter only.

One does not often see such an informative, yet readable, document about anything these days.

To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
Agree regarding that the 38cl was the most technically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia at the time, there was a lot to like about them, and for those who worked on them during their hey days, with good drivers the experienced firemen could make them sing, especially on Passenger Trains.  It was a harder task though when on goods trains and long grades, as it was pretty much continual and not so easy work.

From my time on them, 3 stand out and 01 is not in the list. 02, 23 & 29, were my picks, they seemed a lot freer in steaming and not as heavy on coal.  Others I would put in front of 01 were 07, 11, 18, 25 & 30.
a6et
I'm interested that you haven't listed 27.....the one everyone in the enthusiast groups seemed to like the most, and contended was the best performer.
I saw nineteen of the thirty in the class in my brief time in Sydney from 1967 onward, and any thought of favouritism would have been alien to me.
I saw myself as lucky to see ANY of them in regular service.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
YM-Mundrabilla
An H with a cast steel bed and roller bearings perhaps, but many of its features were positively archaic by comparison!

Why an oil fired 38? Australia didn't (still doesn't) have any vast amount of cheap domestic fuel oil needed to fire it (and huge reserves of high quality coal) and if you're going to burn oil you may as well do it in a diesel engine and get a lot more efficiency.

WW3 starts in 3..2..1...
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
A comparison of the technical features of the 38 and the H is interesting, however there's one big factor in play - 2 cylinders versus 3.

The Henschel and Son gear for the inside cylinder of the H performed extremely well - (compared with the Gresley gear on the S class which was a source of continual trouble).


And, yes; why an oil burning 38? Let's have the smell of coal smoke exactly as God intended. (dives for nearest air raid shelter).
  w44 Station Staff

Did anyone get footage of the trial run yesterday?
  Bevan Wall Deputy Commissioner

Did anyone get footage of the trial run yesterday?
w44
I had a lot on this week but was able to shuffle my commitments around so that I could spend all Wednesday out at Thirlmere recording the load trials, but it meant I could not head out again on Thursday to point my camera at the speed trial to Moss Vale.
However, here are two videos from people who did venture out. The first one is from Declan Goodsell who captured two awesome scenes, one of the departure from Picton and the return run racing through Bowral. The other is from Richard Hay, who captured a stunning scene of 3801 stomping impatiently up the grade to Bargo under caution signals while the local all stations Endeavour cleared the section.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as5jGL2DVHY



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmWb8IOGKxs&t=187s
  a6et Minister for Railways

Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
A valuable resource. Thanks to DCook for posting it.

Sadly page 98 seems to be missing but this is of minor matter only.

One does not often see such an informative, yet readable, document about anything these days.

To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
Agree regarding that the 38cl was the most technically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia at the time, there was a lot to like about them, and for those who worked on them during their hey days, with good drivers the experienced firemen could make them sing, especially on Passenger Trains.  It was a harder task though when on goods trains and long grades, as it was pretty much continual and not so easy work.

From my time on them, 3 stand out and 01 is not in the list. 02, 23 & 29, were my picks, they seemed a lot freer in steaming and not as heavy on coal.  Others I would put in front of 01 were 07, 11, 18, 25 & 30.
I'm interested that you haven't listed 27.....the one everyone in the enthusiast groups seemed to like the most, and contended was the best performer.
I saw nineteen of the thirty in the class in my brief time in Sydney from 1967 onward, and any thought of favouritism would have been alien to me.
I saw myself as lucky to see ANY of them in regular service.
lyntonh
27 has some form of reputation as being at the top of the list, and I asked on another blog regarding it and the reasons behind its high status, reason why was that I had worked on 27 once or twice but while good I believed the others that I mention were better, from a firemans perspective.

The reply I got regarding 27 was owing to it being involved with the special working between Picton and Moss Vale in contention with a 421cl, its only real claim to fame though, it was also one of the last in service that had steam heating fitted.

Not long after I started as a TE in January 1964 I was invited by a friend who was a fireman at Eveleigh to go with the crew on the morning flier from Central and return on the up service that afternoon, it was a round trip/broken shift for the diagram crew, the driver was not keen though and said I could come up on the return trip as there were too many eyes around in the morning, a fair call in the end.

The evening service we had 3806, it was perhaps the dirtiest 38cl I ever got on as soot and muck came up from everywhere, but as we were late in running the driver did all he could to get back on the TT, going down Hawk Mount was fast and so was the trio across Dora Creek and by this time little much was coming into the cab. No stop was at Wyong and as soon as the driver saw the Tuggerah distant signal go to full clear he opened the regulator fully, my mate the fireman had all set in place and being 5 minutes behind, then began a great run along Tuggerah Straight and through to Ourimbah. I had a good wrist watch and near Tuggerah station I started timing between the mileposts that were on the down side. I clocked two posts at 40 seconds between them, it slowed a bit to a minute before the long right curve approaching Ourimbah and the regulator was closed a bit, with that we got a more sedate run into Gosford and arrived 1 minute early.

As a young kid, it was very impressive indeed, I had to go back to the carriage for the ride behind a 46cl. That was the only time I worked on 3806 and while impressive, my big thing was to watch how the crew worked so well together, I remember the driver commending the fireman on the way he fired and the steam pressure never got below 235psi, it was good to see how he fired and later in conversation he raised the aspect of ensuring the bank under the door and back corners were full, the draft was enough where you did not need to fling the shovel for the front of the box, as it was sucked off the blade, with the shovel given a lightish throw of the coal, pointed in the direction, left corner - middle - right corner. The middle areas just needed the same with the shovel at the mouth of the Firehole door owing to the draft just sucking it off. Good Northern coal that had plenty of heat made it a good job to the experienced.
  The Inevitable Looney Station Staff

Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
A valuable resource. Thanks to DCook for posting it.

Sadly page 98 seems to be missing but this is of minor matter only.

One does not often see such an informative, yet readable, document about anything these days.

To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
Agree regarding that the 38cl was the most technically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia at the time, there was a lot to like about them, and for those who worked on them during their hey days, with good drivers the experienced firemen could make them sing, especially on Passenger Trains.  It was a harder task though when on goods trains and long grades, as it was pretty much continual and not so easy work.

From my time on them, 3 stand out and 01 is not in the list. 02, 23 & 29, were my picks, they seemed a lot freer in steaming and not as heavy on coal.  Others I would put in front of 01 were 07, 11, 18, 25 & 30.
I'm interested that you haven't listed 27.....the one everyone in the enthusiast groups seemed to like the most, and contended was the best performer.
I saw nineteen of the thirty in the class in my brief time in Sydney from 1967 onward, and any thought of favouritism would have been alien to me.
I saw myself as lucky to see ANY of them in regular service.
27 has some form of reputation as being at the top of the list, and I asked on another blog regarding it and the reasons behind its high status, reason why was that I had worked on 27 once or twice but while good I believed the others that I mention were better, from a firemans perspective.

The reply I got regarding 27 was owing to it being involved with the special working between Picton and Moss Vale in contention with a 421cl, its only real claim to fame though, it was also one of the last in service that had steam heating fitted.

Not long after I started as a TE in January 1964 I was invited by a friend who was a fireman at Eveleigh to go with the crew on the morning flier from Central and return on the up service that afternoon, it was a round trip/broken shift for the diagram crew, the driver was not keen though and said I could come up on the return trip as there were too many eyes around in the morning, a fair call in the end.

The evening service we had 3806, it was perhaps the dirtiest 38cl I ever got on as soot and muck came up from everywhere, but as we were late in running the driver did all he could to get back on the TT, going down Hawk Mount was fast and so was the trio across Dora Creek and by this time little much was coming into the cab. No stop was at Wyong and as soon as the driver saw the Tuggerah distant signal go to full clear he opened the regulator fully, my mate the fireman had all set in place and being 5 minutes behind, then began a great run along Tuggerah Straight and through to Ourimbah. I had a good wrist watch and near Tuggerah station I started timing between the mileposts that were on the down side. I clocked two posts at 40 seconds between them, it slowed a bit to a minute before the long right curve approaching Ourimbah and the regulator was closed a bit, with that we got a more sedate run into Gosford and arrived 1 minute early.

As a young kid, it was very impressive indeed, I had to go back to the carriage for the ride behind a 46cl. That was the only time I worked on 3806 and while impressive, my big thing was to watch how the crew worked so well together, I remember the driver commending the fireman on the way he fired and the steam pressure never got below 235psi, it was good to see how he fired and later in conversation he raised the aspect of ensuring the bank under the door and back corners were full, the draft was enough where you did not need to fling the shovel for the front of the box, as it was sucked off the blade, with the shovel given a lightish throw of the coal, pointed in the direction, left corner - middle - right corner. The middle areas just needed the same with the shovel at the mouth of the Firehole door owing to the draft just sucking it off. Good Northern coal that had plenty of heat made it a good job to the experienced.
a6et
I thought 3830 was the loco used in the performance trial with the 421 class?
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
A valuable resource. Thanks to DCook for posting it.

Sadly page 98 seems to be missing but this is of minor matter only.

One does not often see such an informative, yet readable, document about anything these days.

To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
Agree regarding that the 38cl was the most technically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia at the time, there was a lot to like about them, and for those who worked on them during their hey days, with good drivers the experienced firemen could make them sing, especially on Passenger Trains.  It was a harder task though when on goods trains and long grades, as it was pretty much continual and not so easy work.

From my time on them, 3 stand out and 01 is not in the list. 02, 23 & 29, were my picks, they seemed a lot freer in steaming and not as heavy on coal.  Others I would put in front of 01 were 07, 11, 18, 25 & 30.
I'm interested that you haven't listed 27.....the one everyone in the enthusiast groups seemed to like the most, and contended was the best performer.
I saw nineteen of the thirty in the class in my brief time in Sydney from 1967 onward, and any thought of favouritism would have been alien to me.
I saw myself as lucky to see ANY of them in regular service.
27 has some form of reputation as being at the top of the list, and I asked on another blog regarding it and the reasons behind its high status, reason why was that I had worked on 27 once or twice but while good I believed the others that I mention were better, from a firemans perspective.

The reply I got regarding 27 was owing to it being involved with the special working between Picton and Moss Vale in contention with a 421cl, its only real claim to fame though, it was also one of the last in service that had steam heating fitted.

Not long after I started as a TE in January 1964 I was invited by a friend who was a fireman at Eveleigh to go with the crew on the morning flier from Central and return on the up service that afternoon, it was a round trip/broken shift for the diagram crew, the driver was not keen though and said I could come up on the return trip as there were too many eyes around in the morning, a fair call in the end.

The evening service we had 3806, it was perhaps the dirtiest 38cl I ever got on as soot and muck came up from everywhere, but as we were late in running the driver did all he could to get back on the TT, going down Hawk Mount was fast and so was the trio across Dora Creek and by this time little much was coming into the cab. No stop was at Wyong and as soon as the driver saw the Tuggerah distant signal go to full clear he opened the regulator fully, my mate the fireman had all set in place and being 5 minutes behind, then began a great run along Tuggerah Straight and through to Ourimbah. I had a good wrist watch and near Tuggerah station I started timing between the mileposts that were on the down side. I clocked two posts at 40 seconds between them, it slowed a bit to a minute before the long right curve approaching Ourimbah and the regulator was closed a bit, with that we got a more sedate run into Gosford and arrived 1 minute early.

As a young kid, it was very impressive indeed, I had to go back to the carriage for the ride behind a 46cl. That was the only time I worked on 3806 and while impressive, my big thing was to watch how the crew worked so well together, I remember the driver commending the fireman on the way he fired and the steam pressure never got below 235psi, it was good to see how he fired and later in conversation he raised the aspect of ensuring the bank under the door and back corners were full, the draft was enough where you did not need to fling the shovel for the front of the box, as it was sucked off the blade, with the shovel given a lightish throw of the coal, pointed in the direction, left corner - middle - right corner. The middle areas just needed the same with the shovel at the mouth of the Firehole door owing to the draft just sucking it off. Good Northern coal that had plenty of heat made it a good job to the experienced.
I thought 3830 was the loco used in the performance trial with the 421 class?
The Inevitable Looney
it was
  a6et Minister for Railways

Any knowledge on if the trials are still set to go?

From browsing online I came across this document which appears to be a scanned copy of the nomination of 3801 for an engineers Australia plaque and a book on 3801 produced by 3801 ltd, the scan is quite bad in some places and some images are very hard to see
https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Locomotive_3801_Nomination.pdf
A valuable resource. Thanks to DCook for posting it.

Sadly page 98 seems to be missing but this is of minor matter only.

One does not often see such an informative, yet readable, document about anything these days.

To me, the 38 class was, perhaps, the most technologically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia although the Victorian H is right up there too. Others will, no doubt, not agree and this post is not to ignite WW3 but rather to invite sensible comment if there is any.

Imagine an oil fired 38!!!!!! Smile
Agree regarding that the 38cl was the most technically advanced passenger locomotive design in Australia at the time, there was a lot to like about them, and for those who worked on them during their hey days, with good drivers the experienced firemen could make them sing, especially on Passenger Trains.  It was a harder task though when on goods trains and long grades, as it was pretty much continual and not so easy work.

From my time on them, 3 stand out and 01 is not in the list. 02, 23 & 29, were my picks, they seemed a lot freer in steaming and not as heavy on coal.  Others I would put in front of 01 were 07, 11, 18, 25 & 30.I asked on another blog regarding it and the reasons behind its high status, reason why was that I had worked on 27 once or twice but while good I believed the others that I mention were better, from a firemans perspective.
I thought 3830 was the loco used in the performance trial with the 421 class?
it was
studdo
If 30 was used in that test, then there was some other trip that involved 27 on the south, there was one where 11 & 27 were used to Goulburn and then 5904 took over for a trip further south.

I have photo's of that trip on Exeter and then at the old quary at North Glbn, along with the 59 on the southern end of Glbn, it could well have been that trip where 27 was given credit for running.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.





  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
On the comment about individual locomotive's performance, what was 3813 like, from some earlier posts and threads it seems that it was well liked by crews
  a6et Minister for Railways

On the comment about individual locomotive's performance, what was 3813 like, from some earlier posts and threads it seems that it was well liked by crews
DCook
From a personal perspective, I only ever worked on 13 once and that was relieving the crew at Campbelltown on an up goods train so the Glbn crew could go home passenger. As such I could not say any more than for that short run, it was on par with others.

Re the above reply re 3827, the Coota trip is likely the one where I read how fast it went, although I am pretty certain the double header with 3811 & 27 also clocked a high speed at the old quarry area. One thing for sure the train fairly whizzed past us taking the photo.
  a6et Minister for Railways

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.



michaelgm
I will check my copy as well.
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.


I will check my copy as well.
a6et
In my time at Enfield as a volunteer there quite a few 38 cl fanatics, sadly a few of whom are no longer with us. Two that came up as good performers were 03 and 15 (15 won Round House's award as the 38 of the year for 1964). 3830 was also highly regarded. At the other end were 11 and particularly 24, some also had reservations about 08 and 10. As I understand it, withdrawal was based on expiry of boiler life rather than on mechanical condition which explains why 30 was withdrawn relatively early while 24 remained in service longer than it should have. There is an oblique reference in John Thompson's 38 book to 3811 at p 119 that suggests 11 was not a great performer.
Of the RTM's 38s, 01 was certainly regarded as the poorest performer and 13 as better than 20 but not by much. I have very fond memories of 3813 doing 85mph ("these engines are capable of 85 mph, but 70 is the maximum track speed permissible" - from Monarch of the Rails) between Penrith and Parramatta on the return of an ARHS tour to Wimbledon in March 1971. The reference to 3827 doing 89.6mph is at p 159 in "38".
3827 certainly had a special place in the hearts of the 38cl fanatics at Enfield, starting I think with it doing the Broadmeadow-Sydney return leg of the Werris Creek tour of 1969. I wonder though whether part of the reason for its fame was being in the right place at the right time. It was withdrawn in November 1969 and then did 3 tours before scrapping - to Orange, the legendary 'Coota tour in January 1970 and to Taree in February 1970. Having been withdrawn and about to be scrapped it didn't matter whether it was flogged to death which might partly explain its outstanding performances. Of course, it still had to be up to doing it. Thompson's book regards it as the best of the 38s, eg p 121 in "38".
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.

I will check my copy as well.
In my time at Enfield as a volunteer there quite a few 38 cl fanatics, sadly a few of whom are no longer with us. Two that came up as good performers were 03 and 15 (15 won Round House's award as the 38 of the year for 1964). 3830 was also highly regarded. At the other end were 11 and particularly 24, some also had reservations about 08 and 10. As I understand it, withdrawal was based on expiry of boiler life rather than on mechanical condition which explains why 30 was withdrawn relatively early while 24 remained in service longer than it should have. There is an oblique reference in John Thompson's 38 book to 3811 at p 119 that suggests 11 was not a great performer.
Of the RTM's 38s, 01 was certainly regarded as the poorest performer and 13 as better than 20 but not by much. I have very fond memories of 3813 doing 85mph ("these engines are capable of 85 mph, but 70 is the maximum track speed permissible" - from Monarch of the Rails) between Penrith and Parramatta on the return of an ARHS tour to Wimbledon in March 1971. The reference to 3827 doing 89.6mph is at p 159 in "38".
3827 certainly had a special place in the hearts of the 38cl fanatics at Enfield, starting I think with it doing the Broadmeadow-Sydney return leg of the Werris Creek tour of 1969. I wonder though whether part of the reason for its fame was being in the right place at the right time. It was withdrawn in November 1969 and then did 3 tours before scrapping - to Orange, the legendary 'Coota tour in January 1970 and to Taree in February 1970. Having been withdrawn and about to be scrapped it didn't matter whether it was flogged to death which might partly explain its outstanding performances. Of course, it still had to be up to doing it. Thompson's book regards it as the best of the 38s, eg p 121 in "38".
studdo
Thanks, studdo.
Tracked down my 38 book, sometime since I’ve looked at it and had not realised the size of the print, difficult to read. Time for some spectacles.Sad
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.
I will check my copy as well.
In my time at Enfield as a volunteer there quite a few 38 cl fanatics, sadly a few of whom are no longer with us. Two that came up as good performers were 03 and 15 (15 won Round House's award as the 38 of the year for 1964). 3830 was also highly regarded. At the other end were 11 and particularly 24, some also had reservations about 08 and 10. As I understand it, withdrawal was based on expiry of boiler life rather than on mechanical condition which explains why 30 was withdrawn relatively early while 24 remained in service longer than it should have. There is an oblique reference in John Thompson's 38 book to 3811 at p 119 that suggests 11 was not a great performer.
Of the RTM's 38s, 01 was certainly regarded as the poorest performer and 13 as better than 20 but not by much. I have very fond memories of 3813 doing 85mph ("these engines are capable of 85 mph, but 70 is the maximum track speed permissible" - from Monarch of the Rails) between Penrith and Parramatta on the return of an ARHS tour to Wimbledon in March 1971. The reference to 3827 doing 89.6mph is at p 159 in "38".
3827 certainly had a special place in the hearts of the 38cl fanatics at Enfield, starting I think with it doing the Broadmeadow-Sydney return leg of the Werris Creek tour of 1969. I wonder though whether part of the reason for its fame was being in the right place at the right time. It was withdrawn in November 1969 and then did 3 tours before scrapping - to Orange, the legendary 'Coota tour in January 1970 and to Taree in February 1970. Having been withdrawn and about to be scrapped it didn't matter whether it was flogged to death which might partly explain its outstanding performances. Of course, it still had to be up to doing it. Thompson's book regards it as the best of the 38s, eg p 121 in "38".
Thanks, studdo.
Tracked down my 38 book, sometime since I’ve looked at it and had not realised the size of the print, difficult to read. Time for some spectacles.Sad
michaelgm
Mate, that goes for all of us.
  a6et Minister for Railways

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.
I will check my copy as well.
In my time at Enfield as a volunteer there quite a few 38 cl fanatics, sadly a few of whom are no longer with us. Two that came up as good performers were 03 and 15 (15 won Round House's award as the 38 of the year for 1964). 3830 was also highly regarded. At the other end were 11 and particularly 24, some also had reservations about 08 and 10. As I understand it, withdrawal was based on expiry of boiler life rather than on mechanical condition which explains why 30 was withdrawn relatively early while 24 remained in service longer than it should have. There is an oblique reference in John Thompson's 38 book to 3811 at p 119 that suggests 11 was not a great performer.
Of the RTM's 38s, 01 was certainly regarded as the poorest performer and 13 as better than 20 but not by much. I have very fond memories of 3813 doing 85mph ("these engines are capable of 85 mph, but 70 is the maximum track speed permissible" - from Monarch of the Rails) between Penrith and Parramatta on the return of an ARHS tour to Wimbledon in March 1971. The reference to 3827 doing 89.6mph is at p 159 in "38".
3827 certainly had a special place in the hearts of the 38cl fanatics at Enfield, starting I think with it doing the Broadmeadow-Sydney return leg of the Werris Creek tour of 1969. I wonder though whether part of the reason for its fame was being in the right place at the right time. It was withdrawn in November 1969 and then did 3 tours before scrapping - to Orange, the legendary 'Coota tour in January 1970 and to Taree in February 1970. Having been withdrawn and about to be scrapped it didn't matter whether it was flogged to death which might partly explain its outstanding performances. Of course, it still had to be up to doing it. Thompson's book regards it as the best of the 38s, eg p 121 in "38".
studdo
I also had a re-read of John Thompson's book regarding the Coota tour also noted his comment about 27 under a photo in an earlier page. For me I assume, he gave a personal view based I would say on the Coota tour.  The Coota tour had a very experienced driver in Clive Clease who was also an acting locomotive inspector at the time and later became a senior inspector, no mention of who the fireman was but both were from Goulburn.  Reading the Coota tour report in the book provides a fair bit of detail regarding the events and some adversities they experienced on the trip, something that was both common and uncommon at times, certainly the work on the lubricators arm is a classic but not unknown for that to happen on the Mechanical lubricators.

From a personal perspective I would be loathe to pick out one single engine from a class as being the best, and how that belief was formed, especially from the outside looking in rather than the inside looking out.   One other aspect in this is to consider the load that 27 had, and it was very light (as I have put the book away) around well under what would have been the load for a 38cl on pax working on both primary sections, Sydney - Goulburn - Goulburn - Coota and return, on that scale it would have helped in getting performance levels and speed overall.  Both load and how many carriages on the train makes a big difference as to how a loco performs.

I mentioned 3x38 before that I found to be the best of all those I worked on, and they were each on full goods load and length trains from Enfield to Goulburn and return. I also mentioned some others that I worked on that were ok but not as good as the first 3.  I worked on more than that list, and 12 we had slipping issues with on a workers train to Sig Shops at Chullora, it had hollow wheels and was set aside once we got back to Loco Enfield.

For me, the worst of the 38's was 01 after its RTS from Cardiff. For whatever reason it did not seem to have the power as others, when it finished its trials on passenger working which automatically allowed it to work goods trains, which some enthusiasts did not like and in an RTM bulletin it was set straight as to the reason behind it, all this because the RTM contributed towards its overhaul.  I worked on 01 to Goulburn, and it seemed sluggish even at top BP, also the screw was out further than was usual by two notches, the driver reported that at Glbn. Some weeks later, with the same driver and well known author and expert we were sent to Clyde Up yard to relief the incoming crew on 392 Pick up. The drivers as usual conversed with each other and the incoming driver commented about it being weak, the load behind 01 was a full length of 55x4 wheelers and load of 1000tonnes, the load for 36/38 and goods engines from Moss Vale to the metro area, so no problems should have been had.

On getting into the cab the shunters waved us up so that we could shunt the wagons off that were needed to come off. with a full head of steam, 01 refused to lift the load and only slipped at every attempt. After more than half dozen attempts one of the 50cl on the yard shunter was brought down and coupled up and assisted us up the yard. Over 200 tonnes were dropped off and we left to go to Enfield, on departure it still slipped.

Rumours had it that there was issues with the way the cylinders and valve timings had been adjusted or other items carried out at Cardiff.  Most crews tended to be of common belief that it had a lot of bark to it but little bite.

Most engines allocated to the West were well maintained as were those at Eveliegh and Enfield, even to the extent of them being kept clean, black oiled every second day and a full dry wipe on the intermediate days.  Those allocated to BMD were ok maintained but did not seem to be as maintained as well as those at the other depots, and certainly very rarely did they get a good clean.

When working on the south, I personally preferred a pig over a 38c, except for 3658 which was a total dog of an engine and Glbn crews called it a smeg. OTOH, the 59cl were a wonderful replacement for the pigs and only had one with an issue that was caused by a slack fuelman at Moss Vale.

PS. I in no way want to discredit the view of the 38cl books author and his view of 3827, all have their individual favourites and often based on what they have experienced one way or another.  The comment regarding 3801 on its Perth run and finishing the trip on one cylinder gives credit to the engine and the crew, none less the locomotive inspector the Late Ian Thornton a personal friend of mine.  Someone sorely missed by all who knew, worked and tripped with.
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.
I will check my copy as well.
In my time at Enfield as a volunteer there quite a few 38 cl fanatics, sadly a few of whom are no longer with us. Two that came up as good performers were 03 and 15 (15 won Round House's award as the 38 of the year for 1964). 3830 was also highly regarded. At the other end were 11 and particularly 24, some also had reservations about 08 and 10. As I understand it, withdrawal was based on expiry of boiler life rather than on mechanical condition which explains why 30 was withdrawn relatively early while 24 remained in service longer than it should have. There is an oblique reference in John Thompson's 38 book to 3811 at p 119 that suggests 11 was not a great performer.
Of the RTM's 38s, 01 was certainly regarded as the poorest performer and 13 as better than 20 but not by much. I have very fond memories of 3813 doing 85mph ("these engines are capable of 85 mph, but 70 is the maximum track speed permissible" - from Monarch of the Rails) between Penrith and Parramatta on the return of an ARHS tour to Wimbledon in March 1971. The reference to 3827 doing 89.6mph is at p 159 in "38".
3827 certainly had a special place in the hearts of the 38cl fanatics at Enfield, starting I think with it doing the Broadmeadow-Sydney return leg of the Werris Creek tour of 1969. I wonder though whether part of the reason for its fame was being in the right place at the right time. It was withdrawn in November 1969 and then did 3 tours before scrapping - to Orange, the legendary 'Coota tour in January 1970 and to Taree in February 1970. Having been withdrawn and about to be scrapped it didn't matter whether it was flogged to death which might partly explain its outstanding performances. Of course, it still had to be up to doing it. Thompson's book regards it as the best of the 38s, eg p 121 in "38".
I also had a re-read of John Thompson's book regarding the Coota tour also noted his comment about 27 under a photo in an earlier page. For me I assume, he gave a personal view based I would say on the Coota tour.  The Coota tour had a very experienced driver in Clive Clease who was also an acting locomotive inspector at the time and later became a senior inspector, no mention of who the fireman was but both were from Goulburn.  Reading the Coota tour report in the book provides a fair bit of detail regarding the events and some adversities they experienced on the trip, something that was both common and uncommon at times, certainly the work on the lubricators arm is a classic but not unknown for that to happen on the Mechanical lubricators.

From a personal perspective I would be loathe to pick out one single engine from a class as being the best, and how that belief was formed, especially from the outside looking in rather than the inside looking out.   One other aspect in this is to consider the load that 27 had, and it was very light (as I have put the book away) around well under what would have been the load for a 38cl on pax working on both primary sections, Sydney - Goulburn - Goulburn - Coota and return, on that scale it would have helped in getting performance levels and speed overall.  Both load and how many carriages on the train makes a big difference as to how a loco performs.

I mentioned 3x38 before that I found to be the best of all those I worked on, and they were each on full goods load and length trains from Enfield to Goulburn and return. I also mentioned some others that I worked on that were ok but not as good as the first 3.  I worked on more than that list, and 12 we had slipping issues with on a workers train to Sig Shops at Chullora, it had hollow wheels and was set aside once we got back to Loco Enfield.

For me, the worst of the 38's was 01 after its RTS from Cardiff. For whatever reason it did not seem to have the power as others, when it finished its trials on passenger working which automatically allowed it to work goods trains, which some enthusiasts did not like and in an RTM bulletin it was set straight as to the reason behind it, all this because the RTM contributed towards its overhaul.  I worked on 01 to Goulburn, and it seemed sluggish even at top BP, also the screw was out further than was usual by two notches, the driver reported that at Glbn. Some weeks later, with the same driver and well known author and expert we were sent to Clyde Up yard to relief the incoming crew on 392 Pick up. The drivers as usual conversed with each other and the incoming driver commented about it being weak, the load behind 01 was a full length of 55x4 wheelers and load of 1000tonnes, the load for 36/38 and goods engines from Moss Vale to the metro area, so no problems should have been had.

On getting into the cab the shunters waved us up so that we could shunt the wagons off that were needed to come off. with a full head of steam, 01 refused to lift the load and only slipped at every attempt. After more than half dozen attempts one of the 50cl on the yard shunter was brought down and coupled up and assisted us up the yard. Over 200 tonnes were dropped off and we left to go to Enfield, on departure it still slipped.

Rumours had it that there was issues with the way the cylinders and valve timings had been adjusted or other items carried out at Cardiff.  Most crews tended to be of common belief that it had a lot of bark to it but little bite.

Most engines allocated to the West were well maintained as were those at Eveliegh and Enfield, even to the extent of them being kept clean, black oiled every second day and a full dry wipe on the intermediate days.  Those allocated to BMD were ok maintained but did not seem to be as maintained as well as those at the other depots, and certainly very rarely did they get a good clean.

When working on the south, I personally preferred a pig over a 38c, except for 3658 which was a total dog of an engine and Glbn crews called it a smeg. OTOH, the 59cl were a wonderful replacement for the pigs and only had one with an issue that was caused by a slack fuelman at Moss Vale.

PS. I in no way want to discredit the view of the 38cl books author and his view of 3827, all have their individual favourites and often based on what they have experienced one way or another.  The comment regarding 3801 on its Perth run and finishing the trip on one cylinder gives credit to the engine and the crew, none less the locomotive inspector the Late Ian Thornton a personal friend of mine.  Someone sorely missed by all who knew, worked and tripped with.
a6et
Somewhere at home I have the STN from 3820's Coota trip, given to me by a workmate of my father. The load was an NCR set plus a 12 wheeler - about 245 tons. Pretty light for a 38, so the  performance might not be surprising

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