@Carnot  So says a Man. For many of us the rights of the woman is of greater importance than the rights of a foetus.

In any case Carnot for you to just dismiss abortion as just some choice is totally bogus. 99% of women choose to have their child. Some who choose to have the arbortion may have been raped. And some of them are very young. It is an agonising decision and you think they should keep the baby to satisfy your religious belief.

Conservatives like to bang about the rights of the unborn and how precious life is but once that child is born just look at how little they care.

Identity Politics. Ok so sticking up for groups that have been discriminates against is ID politics. Any administration that has a racist knob like Stephen Miller in their cabinet deserves to lose.

Michael

I was just getting to that Don, I too am fairly certain that Obama’s reforms for black America resemble a donut.

Nothing pro-choice for the unborn child when it's killed in the name of choice...

Point of order; it is not an unborn child. It is a foetus, which has the potential to be a child. It also has the potential to cause distress  - mejhammers summed it up nicely in his post.

@don_dunstan Misses the point as usual. Barack Obama did not bang about how wonderful blacks are doing.

Did Barack Obama tell lies about how he saved hbcu's?

Did Obama bang on about how the economy is the greatest its ever been. No. Your man did so you keep on trotting out those red herrings Don.

Trump has no plan except giving the wealthy massive tax cuts and doubling the debt.

As regards to Health Initiatives and other reforms including for blacks. I am sure he has plenty of them but he could not get them through because for 6 of the 8 years the  Republicans controlled the House and the Senate and those tea party jerks blocked every reform, something that some seem to forget.

Michael

@don_dunstan Misses the point as usual. Barack Obama did not bang about how wonderful blacks are doing.

No, because poor people in general did terribly under his watch.

As regards to Health Initiatives and other reforms including for blacks. I am sure he has plenty of them but he could not get them through because for 6 of the 8 years the Republicans controlled the House and the Senate and those tea party jerks blocked every reform, something that some seem to forget. Michael

Ahhh, there it is - the EXCUSE. Obama couldn't do anything but schmooze celebrities and protect the wealthy because the House and the Senate wouldn't allow him to.

Nothing pro-choice for the unborn child when it's killed in the name of choice...

Point of order; it is not an unborn child. It is a foetus, which has the potential to be a child. It also has the potential to cause distress  - mejhammers summed it up nicely in his post.

Point of order - Foetus comes from the Latin word "Fetus"- literally translated as "offspring" or "young growing in the womb".

Most abortions occur out of convenience.  And then there's the disgrace of 80-90% of Down Syndrome children being killed before they are born.

Most foetuses are aborted ‘naturally’ or spontaneously. Medically induced/performed or ‘choice’ abortions account for very few ‘non births’ in the natural world.

I just spoke to my gynaecologist father in law, he’s getting close to retirement age so he’s been in the ‘business’ for quite a while now.

I asked him how many abortions has he performed (and he is quite willing to perform them) and in his entire career he said ‘probably less than 100’.

I asked him how many cases of miscarriage or still born has he seen, his answer? ‘Don’t be silly, I cannot keep a count of this many, maybe more than 1 per month for more than 40 years’. - That’s just the ‘naturally’ failed pregnancies within his lady list that he’s aware of, he didn’t think it was unreasonable to expect at least that many, even many more than that to go unnoticed or unreported to him.

So I asked him how often he has a lady with a successful birth and he said ‘more than 1 per week’.

Point of order - Foetus comes from the Latin word "Fetus"- literally translated as "offspring" or "young growing in the womb".

Precisely. . . and your point is ? ? ? ?

Most abortions occur out of convenience.

Can you back this up with facts or figures, or is it simply church brainwashing?

And then there's the disgrace of 80-90% of Down Syndrome children being killed before they are born.

Use the correct wording of " foetuses being aborted", and once again, back your statement up with evidence. N.B. What the bishop preaches is not evidence.

Point of order - Foetus comes from the Latin word "Fetus"- literally translated as "offspring" or "young growing in the womb".

Precisely. . . and your point is ? ? ? ?

Most abortions occur out of convenience.

Can you back this up with facts or figures, or is it simply church brainwashing?

And then there's the disgrace of 80-90% of Down Syndrome children being killed before they are born.

Use the correct wording of " foetuses being aborted", and once again, back your statement up with evidence. N.B. What the bishop preaches is not evidence.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2017/08/17/down-syndrome-birth-terminations/

My point is that unborn children (foetuses) who are entirely viable are being killed for convenience before they are given a chance to be born.

As for reasons for terminating - this table is a helpful summary:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5957082/table/T5/

@don_dunstan There you go. Cannot refute the fact that Trump gave millions away in tax cuts to the wealthy.

You know Obama tried to get reforms done but met a hostile senate and house. Like how the Republicans would not allow a vote on a bill that would give tax breaks for companies that insource jobs back to the US whilst eliminating tax deductions for comapnies that move jobs abroad.

And yeah people like Scott Pruitt, Steve Mnuchin, Roger Stone, Newt Grigrich and Rudy Guilani yes all of them champions of the working class to a man. Oh yes and didn't one of the GOP had to resign over insider trading. For all the faults of the Obama administration and there were many, this one is rottten to the core.

Yeah you keep on believing that the working class will be looked after by this iteration of Republicans, Don.

Michael

One point of clarification, abortion is mostly illegal in Poland today, hence whilst that figure is true for my father in law’s entire ‘career’ to date, it should be noted that I guess in real terms that means until 1990.

My point is that unborn children (foetuses) who are entirely viable are being killed for convenience before they are given a chance to be born.

Quite how that relates to my question about your dictionary definition eludes me.

However, moving right along, my next two points were answered with:
1. An article in something called The New Daily, full of opinion and no attempt at listing any sources.
2. A tabulation of three countries and dating from 2004 to 2010 - nothing like keeping up to date, is there? The major problem I have with the table is that there is no clue whatsoever as to who wrote it and how the data was obtained.

Why not come clean, and just tell us that you're working from your own belief system. None of us will mind because you're entitled to believe what you like.

Entitled to believe what they like, but not entitled to force their man made religious views on our secular society.

@don_dunstan There you go. Cannot refute the fact that Trump gave millions away in tax cuts to the wealthy.

So?

You know Obama tried to get reforms done but met a hostile senate and house.

Excuses again.

And yeah people like Scott Pruitt, Steve Mnuchin, Roger Stone, Newt Grigrich and Rudy Guilani yes all of them champions of the working class to a man. Oh yes and didn't one of the GOP had to resign over insider trading. For all the faults of the Obama administration and there were many, this one is rottten to the core. Yeah you keep on believing that the working class will be looked after by this iteration of Republicans, Don. Michael

I said zero about the treatment of the poor under the Republicans - you're trying to put words into my mouth to win the argument.

And if you want someone to blame for the election of Trump then look no further than eight years of chronic inaction and broken promises under your hero Obama.

Yeah right Don. So trying to get 500 bills and reforms through and being stopped by your beloved GOP is an excuse. Of course it is. Inless of course Trump is on the receiving emd. Then It changes to Trump a hero fighting those lefty democrats. I csn smell your BS Don.

And banging about Obama protecting the rich whilst agreeing that Trump has looked after the rich through tax cuts. Yeah makes sense that does.

At least I can admit that Obamas admin had flaws. You on the other hand cannot admit that your man is one hell of a crook propped up by sycophantic liars, crooks and racists.

Michael

Yeah right Don. So trying to get 500 bills and reforms through and being stopped by your beloved GOP is an excuse. Of course it is. Inless of course Trump is on the receiving emd. Then It changes to Trump a hero fighting those lefty democrats. I csn smell your BS Don.

And banging about Obama protecting the rich whilst agreeing that Trump has looked after the rich through tax cuts. Yeah makes sense that does.

Michael, nobody cares about your fake outrage over Trump looking after the rich, your hero Obama did exactly the same thing. The richest Americans got even richer under Obama than they did under Reagan... what a disgrace that man was. At least you know what you're getting when you vote Republican.

At least I can admit that Obamas admin had flaws. You on the other hand cannot admit that your man is one hell of a crook propped up by sycophantic liars, crooks and racists. Michael

You've done nothing of the sort, all you've done is run Trump down and paint Obama as the antidote. And please stop putting words into my mouth in a feeble attempt to win the argument - I have said NOTHING WHATSOEVER about Trump and economic inequality, I'm not interested in a Republican President's treatment of the poor - I'm interested in why a Democratic President failed poor Americans miserably in his eight (count 'em) years of office.

And all you come up with is excuses.

My point is that unborn children (foetuses) who are entirely viable are being killed for convenience before they are given a chance to be born.

Quite how that relates to my question about your dictionary definition eludes me.

However, moving right along, my next two points were answered with:
1. An article in something called The New Daily, full of opinion and no attempt at listing any sources.
2. A tabulation of three countries and dating from 2004 to 2010 - nothing like keeping up to date, is there? The major problem I have with the table is that there is no clue whatsoever as to who wrote it and how the data was obtained.

Why not come clean, and just tell us that you're working from your own belief system. None of us will mind because you're entitled to believe what you like.

1. The New Daily is an online newspaper run by the former editor of The Age.  If anything it's a Centre-Left rag.
2. The full report FYI: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5957082/

Of course I'm working from a belief system.  Which includes "Do not kill another human".

Although I'm not a Yank, this article probably says it better than I ever could as to why Trump will probably win in 2020:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/02/2020-election-religious-conservatives-trump-voters/

Bernie seems to be on track to win in New Hampshire.  I suspect his universal healthcare proposals and anti-establishment perception is winning votes.

Andrew Yang has bowed out.

@don_dunstan I do not care about your word salad criticism about Obama. Politico states that over 500 initiatives and bills presented were filibustered by the GOP. That is a fact. You are not suggesting that Obama ignore democratic process are you? One can only imagine the outrage.

Antidote to Trump and always running him down? What are you on about? I am merely comparing Administrations. I have time and again criticized Obamas administration in regard to especially foreign policy, his handling of the Middle East and Ukraine was poor to say the least and I can say that until I am blue in the face and people like you will not listen. On the other hand you cannot stand any criticism of Trump to the point of saying that Nancy Pelosi should be censured for tearing up his homework. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush Senior, you might not like their politics, but they carried out their duties with honour and have the US interests at heart. This guy could not give a flying. Damn right I am outraged. He is taking the US public for mugs, and him and his family are cashing on the office. Something that you would not tolerate from anyone else.  

So you don"t care that this president is ripping off the poor but you lose your $h!t about broken promises from the Democrats. Once again, the Obama administration had many flaws. On the other hand, how are all those thousands of coal jobs that were promised by the Republicans going? See they all do it.

Enough fake outrage for you Don?



Michael

I'm not interested in a Republican President's treatment of the poor - I'm interested in why a Democratic President failed poor Americans miserably in his eight (count 'em) years of office.

That enemy of my enemy thing As far as the poor's concerned they're still the enemy.
But heck, you just keep on ranting against parties other than those which exist to protect and advance the interests of the wealthy and privileged.

Looks like Pocahontas and Joe are unlikely to get enough primaries to battle it out with Trump. The impeachment fiasco appears to have stuck a fork in Biden's campaign.

Could it be Bernie v Donald in November?

Polar opposites.

How would the democrats deal with Bernie as last man standing in the democratic convention?

@don_dunstan I do not care about your word salad criticism about Obama.

...

Michael

Right back at 'ya Michael, he's your hero not mine.

I'm not interested in a Republican President's treatment of the poor - I'm interested in why a Democratic President failed poor Americans miserably in his eight (count 'em) years of office.

That enemy of my enemy thing As far as the poor's concerned they're still the enemy.
But heck, you just keep on ranting against parties other than those which exist to protect and advance the interests of the wealthy and privileged.

Well they both do - and it's a fact that the rich got richer under Obama than under any other President - including Reagan. So whose interests was Obama looking after? Certainly not the poorest Americans that's for sure.

And Michael can't bear me repeating this but fact is that there's a direct line because eight years of Obama schmoozing celebrities and giving the appearance of caring and the blue collar vote totally and utterly collapsing on the Demmy-crats in 2016. Because traditional Democrat voters were sick to death of the Demmy-crats and their inaction so they voted Republican in droves.

Billionaire presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg insults farmers and blue-collar workers by saying that anyone could do their jobs and that they have "less gray matter"; it's not a recent clip and is from a talk that he did at Oxford University in 2016 but it's gone viral in the last few days - Washington Times;

Former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg once said that farming and factory jobs don’t require much gray matter, as opposed to information-era jobs.

In a 2016 talk at Oxford University in England, a clip of which went viral over the weekend, the 2020 Democratic presidential contender belittled both agricultural and industrial jobs as simple and simplistic.

“I could teach anybody, even the people in this room” to be a farmer, he said, calling agriculture “a process.”

“You dig a hole, you put a seed in, you put dirt on top, add water, up comes the corn,” he said.

He spoke similarly of factory jobs as mechanical repetition requiring no brain power.

“You put the piece of metal in the lathe, you turn the crank in the direction of the arrow, and you can have a job,” he continued.

Charming, a real man of the people isn't he.