New Sydney Intercity Trains

 
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
The D sets are not a true V set successor, just another over-glorified H set. This government really is sabotaging interurban commuters by having their services be run by a much inferior fleet to make suburban and especially Metro customers look superior.
I believe that the current goal in secret with the NSW Government is to retire most Intercity and Countrylink services with the 4 new Highspeed Lines.

And then soon it will be the Suburban Services that will be inferior. And they will just convert all the lines to Metro.

What 4 high speed lines are you going on about?
simstrain
Have a look for yourself: https://www.buildsydney.com/nsw-high-speed-rail/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FNbEH1BCEg

This is all confirmed by the NSW Government, and they will start planning soon. I think in the long term, high speed rail will replace intercity services. And Suburban services replaced by Metro

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  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
I wouldn't place too much faith in that "Build Sydney" blog you've linked to.
We at Build Sydney are dedicated to bringing you the latest developments and updates happening in the construction & infrastructure industry within the Sydney basin. The aim of Build Sydney News is to publish building & construction information to keep track of Sydney's developing transport, infrastructure, dwellings & ever-expanding built environment.
Build Sydney


They aren't affiliated with any Government body, have not provided any links to reports, costings or routes, beyond the NSW Governments pie-in-the-sky wish-list about what "potential" routes there are. To do what they suggest would bankrupt the state of NSW, assuming it is even physically possible, which I doubt.

Take a look at their table of travel times. Sydney-Canberra (HS Rail >250kp/h) 1.0 Hour travel time.

The straight line distance between the two is 250km, so you would have to average 250km/hr for the entire trip, and have a route distance  not greater than 250km to achieve that. Any increase in track km's requires a consequent increase in required average speed. The Japanese have a maximum speed of 320km/hr on their lines, the Chinese, 350km/hr. The Chinese speed would make the claimed Sydney-Goulburn 30 minute time achievable if they got upto 350km on leaving Central and held that speed, in a straight line all the way to Goulburn.

The Governments website is nothing more than some marketing muppet's wet dream and doesn't have the slightest idea about the difficulty involved running a railway over some of the most inhospitable terrain in the country for such an endeavour - bearing in mind by necessity it would have to be underground until leaving the suburban area as you aren't going to be able to compulsorily acquire several thousand homes to build their toy.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

None of that is official government policy. Someone just drew some flight routes and used the word rail to fool people. That is just somebodies dream who has slapped a nsw government logo on their video. The NSW government has talked about looking in to building some straighter alignments but they have no intention of building a vhst system in NSW.
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
I am very sure that this is official Government Policy. This may help you more: https://www.nsw.gov.au/improving-nsw/projects-and-initiatives/a-fast-rail-future-for-nsw/
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
I am very sure that this is official Government Policy. This may help you more: https://www.nsw.gov.au/improving-nsw/projects-and-initiatives/a-fast-rail-future-for-nsw/
AheadMatthewawsome
Take a step back and look at the comparison (From the NSW Government's own website...) with HS2, through an accountant's eyes, not a gunzel's.

Birmingham has a population in its' own right of around 1,200,000 people. Canberra and Newcastle combined can't match that. You'll need to add Wollongong to be able to even get close, and then that is not one, but 3, different and vastly difficult routes to scope, fund, and construct.

Put simply, no matter what the NSW Government website says, it is nothing but a planners wet dream and, barring significant federal funding, will never happen. Certainly not if recent media reports about the Metro being billions over budget already are true!!
  SupremeLeaderSmeagol Locomotive Driver

I am very sure that this is official Government Policy. This may help you more: https://www.nsw.gov.au/improving-nsw/projects-and-initiatives/a-fast-rail-future-for-nsw/
Take a step back and look at the comparison (From the NSW Government's own website...) with HS2, through an accountant's eyes, not a gunzel's.

Birmingham has a population in its' own right of around 1,200,000 people. Canberra and Newcastle combined can't match that. You'll need to add Wollongong to be able to even get close, and then that is not one, but 3, different and vastly difficult routes to scope, fund, and construct.

Put simply, no matter what the NSW Government website says, it is nothing but a planners wet dream and, barring significant federal funding, will never happen. Certainly not if recent media reports about the Metro being billions over budget already are true!!
KRviator
Alright, can we please get back to the topic of the New Intercity Fleet? I don't understand how HSR has anything to do with these trains, which are powered by sparks under wires.
  y Beginner

Location: Sydney Australia
Will these trains be named anything else?
Like the A set is named the Waratah.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

Isn't it named, NFI?

Or something like it...

It is appropriately titled, because it is attempting to deal with interurban/intercity commuters on the cheap while money (that will never come back into public hands) is being spent on Swiss cheese projects that will cause more overpopulation in Sydney, and more pollution.

If I ever travel into Sydney after the V sets are retired, it will be with my combustion engined car.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

ANR you are just being overly dramatic. I'm not sure where you are coming from but these trains will be 2+2 seating instead of 3+2 and so you won't be crammed in like the Oscar and there will be up to 10 carriages to choose a seat from. Sure reversible seating would be nice but these seats will be more comfortable then the OSCAR. I still have no idea what the fuss is about with the v set seats. I have never found them comfortable. To me the former G set Tangara's had the most comfortable seats.

If my understanding is correct you live in a more regional area of NSW and won't be using these new intercity trains to get in to Sydney or maybe I am mistaken.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

I will be sticking to rubber thanks.

Eventually sanity will prevail and these trains will go into suburban service.

Even though we have had different opinions on the CAF, I think this train would have made a better interurban/intercity solution than the NFI. The platform is more flexible that could extend coverage beyond the wires e.g. Bathurst, Goulburn, possibly further.

Regional and NSW passengers could have a better solution. Anything beyond Goulburn or Bathurst should have gone tilt technology, but even if it remained XPL, this would be OK, short to medium term, until the right platform could be chosen.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I will be sticking to rubber thanks.

Eventually sanity will prevail and these trains will go into suburban service.

Even though we have had different opinions on the CAF, I think this train would have made a better interurban/intercity solution than the NFI. The platform is more flexible that could extend coverage beyond the wires e.g. Bathurst, Goulburn, possibly further.

Regional and NSW passengers could have a better solution. Anything beyond Goulburn or Bathurst should have gone tilt technology, but even if it remained XPL, this would be OK, short to medium term, until the right platform could be chosen.
ANR
These trains are not for surburban use and we can't do single deck for intercity services any more. The seats not reversing is an issue but the seats are not the same as the Oscars. They will be quite comfortable from what I understand. The Oscars were not intercity trains but outer suburban. They were never designed to go to Kiama or Newcastle and the seats. They were supposed to be for Gosford and Springwood to replace the G set tangara's but Labor just kept ordering them with those horrible seats.

The CAF is way overkill on comfort for intercity services with it's reclining chairs and 2+1 seating and it can most definitely not handle the capacity of intercity services. I think they may need to look at 6+6 running in the future as well.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Hows about calling it Felix - to go with Oscar ?
  M636C Minister for Railways

The CAF is way overkill on comfort for intercity services with it's reclining chairs and 2+1 seating and it can most definitely not handle the capacity of intercity services. I think they may need to look at 6+6 running in the future as well.


Assuming that you are describing the XPT, Explorer and Endeavour replacement cars, only first class has 2+1 seating.

The illustrations show 2+2 seating in economy class. Since intercity trains don't have first class that isn't relevant.


It isn't clear whether the intercity CAF railcars will have reclining seats although only one type of economy class was illustrated.


I think the intercity seats will be 2+2.


Peter
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Maybe the "class" will come into it on the NIF when you have to avoid / find another seat without a broken fold-down tray table / rubbish left in the cup holder / chewing gum in the USB port....

Regards,

Catchpoint
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The CAF is way overkill on comfort for intercity services with it's reclining chairs and 2+1 seating and it can most definitely not handle the capacity of intercity services. I think they may need to look at 6+6 running in the future as well.


Assuming that you are describing the XPT, Explorer and Endeavour replacement cars, only first class has 2+1 seating.

The illustrations show 2+2 seating in economy class. Since intercity trains don't have first class that isn't relevant.


It isn't clear whether the intercity CAF railcars will have reclining seats although only one type of economy class was illustrated.


I think the intercity seats will be 2+2.


Peter

M636C

I should have been clearer. My point is that with some carriages being 2+1 seating and they will have atleast have the same reclining as the Xplorer and XPT. There will not be anywhere near enough capacity on the CAF's to handle the capacity requirements on intercity services. So the CAF and the NIF are both appropriate for the jobs they are designed for regardless of if they look similar on the outside to suburban trains.
  DCook Junior Train Controller

The new fleet have been spotted testing on the richmond line during the day
https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/f426qt/spotted_a_nif_train_in_testing_today_at_richmond/
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

V sets are not always the most comfortable seats to sit in either. Especially in this configuration. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1395502670501457&set=a.236429586408777&type=3&theater&ifg=1
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

Maybe sanity prevailed and they are going to replace the D set NFI seats with the V set seats?

It still won't be enough to get the proper V set experience with the wall to wall carpet, sound deadening feel and boulevard suspension.

Maybe this V set carriage will be converted to sleeper class interurban/city. For those pax that want to catch an extra hour or two of shut eye.
  SupremeLeaderSmeagol Locomotive Driver

Lemons?

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/rail-tram-and-bus-union-says-nsws-new-intercity-trains-are-lemons-and-pose-a-risk-to-passengers/news-story/a72f081a534824049367d10d1bff3c6e
ANR
Thats already been posted and discussed before...
And it is yet to be determined whether the things can be classified as lemons - given that the things are stickered in orange and black.
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller
  C3765 Train Controller

The rollout of these trains are probably gonna be further delayed because of the current situation in South Korea. Wouldn’t have happened if they were built in Australia.

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