3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

It would be better if the paint had a manufacture's colour code but it seems this may be lost, or never existed.
A great pity the recent NSWGR in Colour book didn't include a list of the colours they found from old rolling stock paint chips, matched to a recent colour code table.
If you have a sample wet or dry, it’s not difficult.
Colour names/descriptions are open to interpretation. What is olive green?
Numbers for accuracy.

https://www.pantone-colours.com/
michaelgm
Michael, this is not a nit pick or the like & while the Pantone colour chart looks good, if one does a search for a particular colour such as Verdant green, one would be surprised at how many different ones come up, here is one that shows the Pantone in a different way.

When looking for shades of paint colours its often like a dog that has fleas behind the ears, and no hind legs.  How in blazes does he scratch his ears?

https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/19-6026-TCX

Sponsored advertisement

  NSW3802 Locomotive Driver

THNSW has just emailed to its members a picture of a repainted 3801. It looks fabulous, almost too good to be true. The whiskers on the nose cone and side of the boiler seem to be a deeper gold than before, but I'm not going to quibble about that. Also, the green seems a bit deeper than before although not as deep as 3830; but sometimes you can't always tell from a photo. I wonder if these are closer to the original colours after it was repainted from grey in about 1947.
Its interesting with the brass/bronze like yellow whiskers and linings, also how thin they are as well.  There are some coloured photo's around that do show some had thinner whiskers but in general, they were still a bit more separated on the nose and side of the boiler area's. Some including 02 had a thicker whisker and lining, which was also in the same colour & paint that 01 was painted in when it came out of Cardiff after its 60's RTS.

Personally though, I do not like the colour of the whiskers, and would prefer the more chrome yellow that was the most common, and a bit more separated and thicker.
I have 3802's builders plate and it is interesting to see the green paint that dribbled down between the cab and the builders plate. As it has been well protected from the weather etc. The interesting part is there is a section of a very light green colour and a section of the more common darker green. The darker green is also around the edges of the plate. I know this isn't a very good test but on the Humbrol paint chart the darker green comes somewhere near Humbrol 30, dark green  and 120 light green.

When I get a chance I will take the plate into the Hardware store and see what colours they can determine as a match.

Les.
I'll be interested to hear what you find out, I wonder whether the darker paint will be like 3830's. From my time at Enfield (1971-74) I recall some of the older volunteers saying that the streamliners were a lighter green than the non-streamlined 38s.
studdo
Today I took the plate from 3802 into Mitre 10 to use their spectro analysis or whatever it is called. Very hard to hold a heavy brass plate up to a small hole on a machine and get an accurate reading but it did a very good match on the lighter colour on the back of the plate.  Unfortunately the machine gives a formula to mix paint, but does not reference a paint name. I now have a nice sample pot and a lot of numbers, but no name. I will see what else I can find out.

I must say though, the people who have done the restoration have done a magnificent job, the loco looks superb, and I am not going to criticise their selection of colour, lining or anything. I just want to see it running soon.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I generally agree with the above. As long as the RTM has existed there has always been the question as to what was the true shade of green for a 38. Because paint fades, is darkened by black oil used for cleaning, and photographs fade too, not to mention the colour response of various colour film, looking at old photographs is a bit misleading. It would be better if the paint had a manufacture's colour code but it seems this may be lost, or never existed. Even back in the 1960s, the green 38s were all different shades.
I think it might be a futile exercise looking for the right colour.
neillfarmer
To add to what Neill said, the fact colour blindness is a thing demonstrates that not all people see colours the same. I remember hearing a story many years ago about parents who didn't realise that their son had such a problem until he told his school teacher that their cat was green.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
On another note regarding the coupling and positioning of loco's on double heading was when a 32 was used, they were not to lead, and must be marshalled behind the leading locomotive.
a6et
Re the 32 assisting the 38; The WTT mentioned  38 led Express, Mail or Through Passenger trains could be assisted by a 32 class from Sydney to Hornsby, or a 30 class from West Ryde to Hornsby. West Ryde station was known as Ryde station before October 1945. If the 38 led from Sydney to Hornsby with 32 between 38 and train, that would mean both locos off train at Hornsby to release the 32, then the 38 back on. Bit time expensive compared to the assisting 32 on front, so quick off at Hornsby.
  a6et Minister for Railways

On another note regarding the coupling and positioning of loco's on double heading was when a 32 was used, they were not to lead, and must be marshalled behind the leading locomotive.
Re the 32 assisting the 38; The WTT mentioned  38 led Express, Mail or Through Passenger trains could be assisted by a 32 class from Sydney to Hornsby, or a 30 class from West Ryde to Hornsby. West Ryde station was known as Ryde station before October 1945. If the 38 led from Sydney to Hornsby with 32 between 38 and train, that would mean both locos off train at Hornsby to release the 32, then the 38 back on. Bit time expensive compared to the assisting 32 on front, so quick off at Hornsby.
petan
Petan, my apologies, as I took out part of the post.

The rule did not apply to a 32cl assisting a train through a section owing to the train locomotive being over the load.  32cl were used in that role on the west assisting trains from Dubbo - Narramine; Bathurst - Wimbledon and other similar areas.  The rule I understand was put in place for them when running from say Enfield - Broadmeadow, Enfield - Goulburn and the like, it is/was an obscure ruling and I do not know why.

I read somewhere that when it was busy, there was a 30tank and 32's at West Ryde to couple to the front of passenger trains requiring assistance, especially at busy holiday times such as Christmas.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I generally agree with the above. As long as the RTM has existed there has always been the question as to what was the true shade of green for a 38. Because paint fades, is darkened by black oil used for cleaning, and photographs fade too, not to mention the colour response of various colour film, looking at old photographs is a bit misleading. It would be better if the paint had a manufacture's colour code but it seems this may be lost, or never existed. Even back in the 1960s, the green 38s were all different shades.
I think it might be a futile exercise looking for the right colour.
To add to what Neill said, the fact colour blindness is a thing demonstrates that not all people see colours the same. I remember hearing a story many years ago about parents who didn't realise that their son had such a problem until he told his school teacher that their cat was green.
Graham4405
Graham, colour blindness is a problem certainly for many people.

The aspect that Neil raised and I agreed with him on it is the debate has raged for years regarding the colour green that the 38's had, it was not just the 38's but also it raged with the 32, 35, 36 & the 38's, and much came out as a result of the use of the Verdant Green and what colour/shade it was, I have a British paint chart that shows that green but its nothing like any green I have seen on 3801, and as Neil has said its been the issue since 01 was returned to service painted green.

I also mentioned how sunlight and angles make a colour look different, and for me, I have just watched a short clip from THNSW of 3801 doing a run on the line around Thirlmere I gather https://mailchi.mp/transportheritagensw/3801-steams-again?e=b1a703475c  After watching that, it has changed my view on the colour of the engine but more so of the whiskers.

As -01 moves in the video, there are parts where the whiskers look the bronzy colour that I referred to, previously, but in the main and with the heading still pic at Thirlmere the whiskers are seen more in the chrome yellow, but they also take on a bronze/brass like colour closer to the cab, a good show of how the light affects colour. Same aspect as you get to the 2 minute mark and onwards is how the colour of the whiskers tend to be changing, according to the lighting around it.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I generally agree with the above. As long as the RTM has existed there has always been the question as to what was the true shade of green for a 38. Because paint fades, is darkened by black oil used for cleaning, and photographs fade too, not to mention the colour response of various colour film, looking at old photographs is a bit misleading. It would be better if the paint had a manufacture's colour code but it seems this may be lost, or never existed. Even back in the 1960s, the green 38s were all different shades.
I think it might be a futile exercise looking for the right colour.
To add to what Neill said, the fact colour blindness is a thing demonstrates that not all people see colours the same. I remember hearing a story many years ago about parents who didn't realise that their son had such a problem until he told his school teacher that their cat was green.
Graham, colour blindness is a problem certainly for many people.

The aspect that Neil raised and I agreed with him on it is the debate has raged for years regarding the colour green that the 38's had, it was not just the 38's but also it raged with the 32, 35, 36 & the 38's, and much came out as a result of the use of the Verdant Green and what colour/shade it was, I have a British paint chart that shows that green but its nothing like any green I have seen on 3801, and as Neil has said its been the issue since 01 was returned to service painted green.

I also mentioned how sunlight and angles make a colour look different, and for me, I have just watched a short clip from THNSW of 3801 doing a run on the line around Thirlmere I gather https://mailchi.mp/transportheritagensw/3801-steams-again?e=b1a703475c  After watching that, it has changed my view on the colour of the engine but more so of the whiskers.

As -01 moves in the video, there are parts where the whiskers look the bronzy colour that I referred to, previously, but in the main and with the heading still pic at Thirlmere the whiskers are seen more in the chrome yellow, but they also take on a bronze/brass like colour closer to the cab, a good show of how the light affects colour. Same aspect as you get to the 2 minute mark and onwards is how the colour of the whiskers tend to be changing, according to the lighting around it.
a6et
Foamers would argue about the colour of 2 flies crawling up the side of 3801. My favourite loco colour is the green the Pennsylvania RR used. Almost black but in the right light a beautiful shade of green came through.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

You would then approve of the colour of SARs 520s which were supposedly black but had a generous splash of green added to the mix.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I generally agree with the above. As long as the RTM has existed there has always been the question as to what was the true shade of green for a 38. Because paint fades, is darkened by black oil used for cleaning, and photographs fade too, not to mention the colour response of various colour film, looking at old photographs is a bit misleading. It would be better if the paint had a manufacture's colour code but it seems this may be lost, or never existed. Even back in the 1960s, the green 38s were all different shades.
I think it might be a futile exercise looking for the right colour.
To add to what Neill said, the fact colour blindness is a thing demonstrates that not all people see colours the same. I remember hearing a story many years ago about parents who didn't realise that their son had such a problem until he told his school teacher that their cat was green.
Graham, colour blindness is a problem certainly for many people.

The aspect that Neil raised and I agreed with him on it is the debate has raged for years regarding the colour green that the 38's had, it was not just the 38's but also it raged with the 32, 35, 36 & the 38's, and much came out as a result of the use of the Verdant Green and what colour/shade it was, I have a British paint chart that shows that green but its nothing like any green I have seen on 3801, and as Neil has said its been the issue since 01 was returned to service painted green.

I also mentioned how sunlight and angles make a colour look different, and for me, I have just watched a short clip from THNSW of 3801 doing a run on the line around Thirlmere I gather https://mailchi.mp/transportheritagensw/3801-steams-again?e=b1a703475c  After watching that, it has changed my view on the colour of the engine but more so of the whiskers.

As -01 moves in the video, there are parts where the whiskers look the bronzy colour that I referred to, previously, but in the main and with the heading still pic at Thirlmere the whiskers are seen more in the chrome yellow, but they also take on a bronze/brass like colour closer to the cab, a good show of how the light affects colour. Same aspect as you get to the 2 minute mark and onwards is how the colour of the whiskers tend to be changing, according to the lighting around it.
Foamers would argue about the colour of 2 flies crawling up the side of 3801. My favourite loco colour is the green the Pennsylvania RR used. Almost black but in the right light a beautiful shade of green came through.
nswtrains
Get a life mate, the discussion has gone along quite well until you raise your foams.  I retain an interest in the railways primarily in the era to which I worked as a cleaner, fireman and then driver for over 25 years, on steam, diesels and the ETR, outside of having an interest that does not in any way mean I go out any more and involve myself with rail operations, been there, done and as a volunteer driver for several disadvantaged childrens trips between Wollongong - Moss Vale and return both on 53cl and 59, before they stopped operations with them.

I would imagine you know all about the flies discussions and would mainly be of the blow fly type.

PS, as for engines overall, out of the 38cl I worked on, the worst of them was 3801 and the reasons have been posted previously.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Who the hell cares what green, yellow and red is used? Near enough is good enough.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Who the hell cares what green, yellow and red is used? Near enough is good enough.
Valvegear
Have sympathy for the people doing the resto.
One of the biggest decisions in the end would be colour. And detail.
Can’t please everyone, so you gotta please yourself.
Personally, from the clips posted here, looks brilliant.

It’s a goer, accredited and ready to run.
SFA else matters.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney

PS, as for engines overall, out of the 38cl I worked on, the worst of them was 3801 and the reasons have been posted previously.
a6et
Could 3801's performance have improved since its various restorations, particularly now that it's refurbished boiler has been upgraded to allow it to again reach its maximum designed boiler pressure?
  a6et Minister for Railways


PS, as for engines overall, out of the 38cl I worked on, the worst of them was 3801 and the reasons have been posted previously.Could 3801's performance have improved since its various restorations, particularly now that it's refurbished boiler has been upgraded to allow it to again reach its maximum designed boiler pressure?
Transtopic
I would be surprised if the amount of work that has been carried out on it, does not improve it do those days when I worked on it.

The primary issue with it was when on goods working as it lacked grunt when compared to other members of the class. In the sixties when overhauled at Cardiff many thought because the RTM paid towards its restoration that it would be exclusively used on passenger working which it seemed to perform well owing to generally a lot lower loads than it had on goods working. Many also thought that working on goods train would mean it would be flogged to death, but it did not do any more than other members did.

In reading several reports while the boiler problem was being an issue, there were some areas where those working on it did find areas that needed repairs which had not been found initially. Certainly the extra time that it was in pieces in many ways was a good thing as it allowed for all the vital parts to be overhauled and or replaced. The work carried out on the boiler to get it back in service is a credit to the people at Goulburn, and I would say that the 01 that rolls out for its next career charge would be as good as it was when it first rolled out of Clyde workshops, at the least it should.

Its also the reason why I have also suggested several times that over the years when 01 and 30 were overhauled in the Hunter Valley by two different companies, that many young apprentices learnt a lot and they could well or should have been available to perform work on other steam loco's, the preservation side of things lost a great opportunity at that time to look to the future. Its the same thing with the company at Goulburn, would they not have the capability to fix the German boiler? either way, they showed what they can do, and somehow should be used to work on some other loco's instead of the small number of serviceable loco's being available, and having to carry a large burden in operations having a couple of other higher speed steam locomotives available to work tours would share a burden, rather than relying and hoping the small fleet can handle things and have no failures.

When all is said and done, there are only two steam locomotives that can run at 110/115Kph and 3526, while a vg engine cannot handle the same level of work that the 38cl can, or a 36cl to me going forward having the 3 pigs available for service also the 3x38's as well, would make for a better future. I know some vehemently disagree with this but just my opinion.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The work carried out on the boiler to get it back in service is a credit to the people at Goulburn, and I would say that the 01 that rolls out for its next career charge would be as good as it was when it first rolled out of Clyde workshops, at the least it should.
"a6et"
Amen, brother! The people at Goulburn have done an excellent job and, I hope, have created some suitably embarrassed red faces among those who sent the job to Germany initially. It's an object lesson in "Buy Australian."
  a6et Minister for Railways

The work carried out on the boiler to get it back in service is a credit to the people at Goulburn, and I would say that the 01 that rolls out for its next career charge would be as good as it was when it first rolled out of Clyde workshops, at the least it should.
Amen, brother! The people at Goulburn have done an excellent job and, I hope, have created some suitably embarrassed red faces among those who sent the job to Germany initially. It's an object lesson in "Buy Australian."
Thanks mate.

At my age & over the years I have seen too many businesses close down that should never have been closed, that is especially in the industrial arena and heavy manufacturing, companies that made items in multiple areas including cities and out in regional Australia.  My late dad was a fitter & machinist, started as a trades in the small arms factory at Lithgow, went to the RAAF towards end of WW2 as he could be released for aircraft retraining as the way was near at an end, following his decom from the air force at Holbrook he went back to the Small arms factory, but in a move to Sydney got a job at the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation at Pippita, when it was downsized he moved to a heavy machinery factory at Rydalmere and then to one that backed onto our home street in Northmead.  Outside of the small arms factory and not sure it still is open all the other ones have closed, and what they made now comes from overseas.  The only work available from them is for some trades companies who fix the items when the owners cannot.

We lost out on the railways where every year around 200 apprenticeships in various trades were put out, and those all came from the bush, others were taken on from the Sydney area and those from the bush had accommodation in a large dorm on the carriage works side of the rail lines, the walkway under the lines to access the LES and all the areas there was made for them, end of apprenticeship, some got jobs at various rail places or went back to their hometowns and got jobs there. The local businesses generally did not have the money to pay for apprenticeships, and rural communities missed out big time.

During my NSW railway career, I actually forget how many large industries and businesses/companies have closed down around the areas, but even after I was medically retired and went to various other locations, the amount of local businesses and factories that have closed down is incredible, some struggle on to provide smaller items for the local area but with dramatically reduced work forces.  All the items all of these areas produced are now made overseas with a vast number in Asia and the reason?   That's no brainer is cost and speed to get the products delivered, all or much is through cheap labour.

The Australian industry has always had problems but they were still producing with products designed for and made for the Australian market.

Thankfully for me, I see the companies like the Goulburn one as a ray of sunshine and where our governments should be looking to reinforce those businesses rather than going off shore, the new modern nice term used for our competitors. I would love to see some more of the small moves like the one that has one of our rail operators order some new locally made/put together or whatever is termed, in Newcastle become more seen in this country, sure some items have to be made overseas, but as the RP thread someone said with the cost to transport large loco's from overseas fully assembled the cost is not cheap, and the local industry could benefit from it.

Likewise heritage type areas could also be beneficiaries of it as well, rather than what we see now with the NSW government and likely other ones as well selling off so many of government owned areas to build monuments for themselves and no long term benefit in many of those areas for those who elected them. The paltry amounts they get are ridiculous.

One big one that has raised shackles in Newcastle was one that has been raised last month of the NCLE council selling a prime site in the Honeysuckle precinct or near to it for $10.00, with the real value being in the millions, there is an investigation happening as one would expect.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

The work carried out on the boiler to get it back in service is a credit to the people at Goulburn, and I would say that the 01 that rolls out for its next career charge would be as good as it was when it first rolled out of Clyde workshops, at the least it should.
Amen, brother! The people at Goulburn have done an excellent job and, I hope, have created some suitably embarrassed red faces among those who sent the job to Germany initially. It's an object lesson in "Buy Australian."
Thanks mate.

At my age & over the years I have seen too many businesses close down that should never have been closed, that is especially in the industrial arena and heavy manufacturing, companies that made items in multiple areas including cities and out in regional Australia.  My late dad was a fitter & machinist, started as a trades in the small arms factory at Lithgow, went to the RAAF towards end of WW2 as he could be released for aircraft retraining as the way was near at an end, following his decom from the air force at Holbrook he went back to the Small arms factory, but in a move to Sydney got a job at the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation at Pippita, when it was downsized he moved to a heavy machinery factory at Rydalmere and then to one that backed onto our home street in Northmead.  Outside of the small arms factory and not sure it still is open all the other ones have closed, and what they made now comes from overseas.  The only work available from them is for some trades companies who fix the items when the owners cannot.

We lost out on the railways where every year around 200 apprenticeships in various trades were put out, and those all came from the bush, others were taken on from the Sydney area and those from the bush had accommodation in a large dorm on the carriage works side of the rail lines, the walkway under the lines to access the LES and all the areas there was made for them, end of apprenticeship, some got jobs at various rail places or went back to their hometowns and got jobs there. The local businesses generally did not have the money to pay for apprenticeships, and rural communities missed out big time.

During my NSW railway career, I actually forget how many large industries and businesses/companies have closed down around the areas, but even after I was medically retired and went to various other locations, the amount of local businesses and factories that have closed down is incredible, some struggle on to provide smaller items for the local area but with dramatically reduced work forces.  All the items all of these areas produced are now made overseas with a vast number in Asia and the reason?   That's no brainer is cost and speed to get the products delivered, all or much is through cheap labour.

The Australian industry has always had problems but they were still producing with products designed for and made for the Australian market.

Thankfully for me, I see the companies like the Goulburn one as a ray of sunshine and where our governments should be looking to reinforce those businesses rather than going off shore, the new modern nice term used for our competitors. I would love to see some more of the small moves like the one that has one of our rail operators order some new locally made/put together or whatever is termed, in Newcastle become more seen in this country, sure some items have to be made overseas, but as the RP thread someone said with the cost to transport large loco's from overseas fully assembled the cost is not cheap, and the local industry could benefit from it.

Likewise heritage type areas could also be beneficiaries of it as well, rather than what we see now with the NSW government and likely other ones as well selling off so many of government owned areas to build monuments for themselves and no long term benefit in many of those areas for those who elected them. The paltry amounts they get are ridiculous.

One big one that has raised shackles in Newcastle was one that has been raised last month of the NCLE council selling a prime site in the Honeysuckle precinct or near to it for $10.00, with the real value being in the millions, there is an investigation happening as one would expect.
a6et
Wow, blast from the past. Few of my relatives worked at the SAF Lithgow.
The machinery factory in Northmead was Howards, later CASE.
My grandfather worked there.
Small world.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Amen, brother! The people at Goulburn have done an excellent job and, I hope, have created some suitably embarrassed red faces among those who sent the job to Germany initially. It's an object lesson in "Buy Australian."
However, remember that the Germans built EXACTLY what we asked for.
It wasn't their fault that the design was screwed up at the Australian end.....

It wasn't what we wanted but it was exactly what we asked them to build....
Had we been more careful checking the drawings before the German boiler was built 3801 would have been operating six or seven years ago

Peter
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I always respect the comments of M636C, however the Germans didn't build exactly as designed. There were manufacturing errors, and trouble came from both sides. I have given my word that I will not specify these manufacturing errors, as they were told to me in confidence, but at least two serious dimensional faults were not attributable to Australian drawings. The German firm avoided any legal ramifications by going out of business.

Had the job been given to the Goulburn firm in the first place, periodic inspections and/or "sorting out" of queries would have been considerably easier, and we still should have had 3801 operating six or seven years ago. The tyranny of distance did not help.
  a6et Minister for Railways

The work carried out on the boiler to get it back in service is a credit to the people at Goulburn, and I would say that the 01 that rolls out for its next career charge would be as good as it was when it first rolled out of Clyde workshops, at the least it should.
Amen, brother! The people at Goulburn have done an excellent job and, I hope, have created some suitably embarrassed red faces among those who sent the job to Germany initially. It's an object lesson in "Buy Australian."
Thanks mate.

At my age & over the years I have seen too many businesses close down that should never have been closed, that is especially in the industrial arena and heavy manufacturing, companies that made items in multiple areas including cities and out in regional Australia.  My late dad was a fitter & machinist, started as a trades in the small arms factory at Lithgow, went to the RAAF towards end of WW2 as he could be released for aircraft retraining as the way was near at an end, following his decom from the air force at Holbrook he went back to the Small arms factory, but in a move to Sydney got a job at the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation at Pippita, when it was downsized he moved to a heavy machinery factory at Rydalmere and then to one that backed onto our home street in Northmead.  Outside of the small arms factory and not sure it still is open all the other ones have closed, and what they made now comes from overseas.  The only work available from them is for some trades companies who fix the items when the owners cannot.

We lost out on the railways where every year around 200 apprenticeships in various trades were put out, and those all came from the bush, others were taken on from the Sydney area and those from the bush had accommodation in a large dorm on the carriage works side of the rail lines, the walkway under the lines to access the LES and all the areas there was made for them, end of apprenticeship, some got jobs at various rail places or went back to their hometowns and got jobs there. The local businesses generally did not have the money to pay for apprenticeships, and rural communities missed out big time.

During my NSW railway career, I actually forget how many large industries and businesses/companies have closed down around the areas, but even after I was medically retired and went to various other locations, the amount of local businesses and factories that have closed down is incredible, some struggle on to provide smaller items for the local area but with dramatically reduced work forces.  All the items all of these areas produced are now made overseas with a vast number in Asia and the reason?   That's no brainer is cost and speed to get the products delivered, all or much is through cheap labour.

The Australian industry has always had problems but they were still producing with products designed for and made for the Australian market.

Thankfully for me, I see the companies like the Goulburn one as a ray of sunshine and where our governments should be looking to reinforce those businesses rather than going off shore, the new modern nice term used for our competitors. I would love to see some more of the small moves like the one that has one of our rail operators order some new locally made/put together or whatever is termed, in Newcastle become more seen in this country, sure some items have to be made overseas, but as the RP thread someone said with the cost to transport large loco's from overseas fully assembled the cost is not cheap, and the local industry could benefit from it.

Likewise heritage type areas could also be beneficiaries of it as well, rather than what we see now with the NSW government and likely other ones as well selling off so many of government owned areas to build monuments for themselves and no long term benefit in many of those areas for those who elected them. The paltry amounts they get are ridiculous.

One big one that has raised shackles in Newcastle was one that has been raised last month of the NCLE council selling a prime site in the Honeysuckle precinct or near to it for $10.00, with the real value being in the millions, there is an investigation happening as one would expect.
Wow, blast from the past. Few of my relatives worked at the SAF Lithgow.
The machinery factory in Northmead was Howards, later CASE.
My grandfather worked there.
Small world.
michaelgm
We lived in Howard Ave, dad had a piece of corrugated iron that he bent to open as a gate to go into Howard Auto's as it was fully called, saved a work up the Ave and down to Windsor Rd, and into Kliens Rd to get to work. He left there not long after Case took over and worked for Tut Bryants another farm machinery company at Rydalmere, when it closed my godfather got him a job with Witters a recycling factory at Granville as a maintenance man for the machines there.

I was in the first year intake at Northmead High School when it opened in 1959, left in 62, into PMG, and then the NSWGR in 64.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I always respect the comments of M636C, however the Germans didn't build exactly as designed. There were manufacturing errors, and trouble came from both sides. I have given my word that I will not specify these manufacturing errors, as they were told to me in confidence, but at least two serious dimensional faults were not attributable to Australian drawings. The German firm avoided any legal ramifications by going out of business.

Had the job been given to the Goulburn firm in the first place, periodic inspections and/or "sorting out" of queries would have been considerably easier, and we still should have had 3801 operating six or seven years ago. The tyranny of distance did not help.
Valvegear
I often wondered why the likes of Ipswich did not get the contract as they apparently tendered for the new boiler. I agree with you regarding the distance issue, and I believe that there could have been a good option in going to China, where the Sujiatun works and one other that still had the skills and workers to build the boiler, likely could have got a couple of them at the price of the German one.

The other advantage was that China was an 8 hour flight plus overnight on train or flight to Shengyan international airport which is/was not far from the workshops
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
I always respect the comments of M636C, however the Germans didn't build exactly as designed. There were manufacturing errors, and trouble came from both sides. I have given my word that I will not specify these manufacturing errors, as they were told to me in confidence, but at least two serious dimensional faults were not attributable to Australian drawings. The German firm avoided any legal ramifications by going out of business.
Valvegear
I wasn't aware Dampflokwerk Meiningen had gone out of Business.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I don't know the trading name of the entity concerned with the German boiler fiasco, but information as recently as two months ago, from people at RTM and East Coast Heritage Rail, was that it deliberately went out of business to ensure there were no assets to pursue.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I always respect the comments of M636C, however the Germans didn't build exactly as designed. There were manufacturing errors, and trouble came from both sides. I have given my word that I will not specify these manufacturing errors, as they were told to me in confidence, but at least two serious dimensional faults were not attributable to Australian drawings. The German firm avoided any legal ramifications by going out of business.
I wasn't aware Dampflokwerk Meiningen had gone out of Business.
NSWGR 3827
It would seem not: https://www.dampflokwerk.de/en/
  dm211060 Station Staff

I always respect the comments of M636C, however the Germans didn't build exactly as designed. There were manufacturing errors, and trouble came from both sides. I have given my word that I will not specify these manufacturing errors, as they were told to me in confidence, but at least two serious dimensional faults were not attributable to Australian drawings. The German firm avoided any legal ramifications by going out of business.
I wasn't aware Dampflokwerk Meiningen had gone out of Business.
It would seem not: https://www.dampflokwerk.de/en/
Graham4405
Um what's that German word for "making sh.t up" hey Valvegear?
  dm211060 Station Staff

I always respect the comments of M636C, however the Germans didn't build exactly as designed. There were manufacturing errors, and trouble came from both sides. I have given my word that I will not specify these manufacturing errors, as they were told to me in confidence, but at least two serious dimensional faults were not attributable to Australian drawings. The German firm avoided any legal ramifications by going out of business.
I wasn't aware Dampflokwerk Meiningen had gone out of Business.
It would seem not: https://www.dampflokwerk.de/en/
Um what's that German word for "making sh.t up" hey Valvegear?

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