Bye Bye to George Pell

 
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
It’s ok. We Aussies will undoubtedly ensure this tall poppy stays well and truely chopped.

He’s not going to be Pope, he’s not going to get any profile job in the church, and Covid wise he’s not slinking off overseas to the Vatican to sweep the floors or hide anytime soon either.
Our ever thoughtful media will be looking to go over to his place for some glimpse anytime they have a slow news day and entertain the next story of his past indiscretions (real or imagined).

The blokes going to be hounded until he drops off the perch, because that’s human nature.

Regards

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  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It’s ok. We Aussies will undoubtedly ensure this tall poppy stays well and truely chopped.

He’s not going to be Pope, he’s not going to get any profile job in the church, and Covid wise he’s not slinking off overseas to the Vatican to sweep the floors or hide anytime soon either.
Our ever thoughtful media will be looking to go over to his place for some glimpse anytime they have a slow news day and entertain the next story of his past indiscretions (real or imagined).

The blokes going to be hounded until he drops off the perch, because that’s human nature.

Regards
davesvline
He is going to be hounded by another accuser. I hope the relevant police do a better job than the Victorian plods did with the last case.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
It’s ok. We Aussies will undoubtedly ensure this tall poppy stays well and truely chopped.

He’s not going to be Pope, he’s not going to get any profile job in the church, and Covid wise he’s not slinking off overseas to the Vatican to sweep the floors or hide anytime soon either.
Our ever thoughtful media will be looking to go over to his place for some glimpse anytime they have a slow news day and entertain the next story of his past indiscretions (real or imagined).

The blokes going to be hounded until he drops off the perch, because that’s human nature.

Regards
He is going to be hounded by another accuser. I hope the relevant police do a better job than the Victorian plods did with the last case.
nswtrains
The new allegation is from the 1970's. This goes to the heart of what I was saying earlier about the accused party being denied natural justice - let me guess, no other witnesses, no time-frame. Just Pell in a hood in a wood.

Whoever is making the allegation needs to accept that fifty years is just too damn late.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

It’s ok. We Aussies will undoubtedly ensure this tall poppy stays well and truely chopped.

He’s not going to be Pope, he’s not going to get any profile job in the church, and Covid wise he’s not slinking off overseas to the Vatican to sweep the floors or hide anytime soon either.
Our ever thoughtful media will be looking to go over to his place for some glimpse anytime they have a slow news day and entertain the next story of his past indiscretions (real or imagined).

The blokes going to be hounded until he drops off the perch, because that’s human nature.

Regards
He is going to be hounded by another accuser. I hope the relevant police do a better job than the Victorian plods did with the last case.
The new allegation is from the 1970's. This goes to the heart of what I was saying earlier about the accused party being denied natural justice - let me guess, no other witnesses, no time-frame. Just Pell in a hood in a wood.

Whoever is making the allegation needs to accept that fifty years is just too damn late.
don_dunstan
Don, can see your point, really.
Fact is people deal with trauma in different ways. Whoever is making allegations was perhaps satisfied to move along with life, water under the bridge for those 50 years. Until others took action, and a conviction was quashed.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Here we go again

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The new allegation is from the 1970's. This goes to the heart of what I was saying earlier about the accused party being denied natural justice - let me guess, no other witnesses, no time-frame. Just Pell in a hood in a wood.

Whoever is making the allegation needs to accept that fifty years is just too damn late.
Don, can see your point, really.
Fact is people deal with trauma in different ways. Whoever is making allegations was perhaps satisfied to move along with life, water under the bridge for those 50 years. Until others took action, and a conviction was quashed.
michaelgm
Convicting someone on the basis of the sole testimony of one individual from fifty years ago is just repeating the mistakes that the Victoria Police made the first time around. Again, fifty years ago with no corroborating witnesses or evidence is just too damn late. Accept it and get on with what's left of your life.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I guess he thought we would get out of the fire and head to Sydney only to be approached by Police.  Why did he not just go to Essendon Airport and charter a jet to Italy?
  M636C Minister for Railways

If there is no statute of limitation on crimes of child abuse any victim is entitled to report an incident in the past.

Even if there is little chance of conviction, the police should investigate any such claim.

It is always possible that such a crime could be proven conclusively in court if there are witnesses.

I am concerned that in Pell's trials and appeals, as the actual evidence was considered in a more theoretical way, the verdict moved from "guilty" to "in doubt" as those considering the verdict changed from people who may have had experiences like the victim to people whose background was more like the accused.

Peter
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
If there is no statute of limitation on crimes of child abuse any victim is entitled to report an incident in the past.
...
Hopefully the Victorian DPP thinks of possibilities like this before they prosecute cases.
don_dunstan
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
If there is no statute of limitation on crimes of child abuse any victim is entitled to report an incident in the past.
...
Hopefully the Victorian DPP thinks of possibilities like this before they prosecute cases.
don_dunstan

There is no statute of limitations for any criminal offence.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I guess he thought we would get out of the fire and head to Sydney only to be approached by Police.  Why did he not just go to Essendon Airport and charter a jet to Italy?
bevans
Would have looked terrible, plus Pell himself is broke from all his legal fees. As DavesVline said they'll hound him to death now - so everyone who still thinks he deserves punishment will get their revenge.

But I guess we're done here unless something compelling comes up.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

If there is no statute of limitation on crimes of child abuse any victim is entitled to report an incident in the past.
...
Hopefully the Victorian DPP thinks of possibilities like this before they prosecute cases.

There is no statute of limitations for any criminal offence.
bevans
I notice someone has disagreed with Bevan's statement regarding statute of limitations, but the actual fact is,that in this jurisdiction, there are no statute of limitations on serious criminal offences. I fear too many Australians have been influenced by US sourced criminal television programmes, like Law and Order etc, where in the US, statute of limitations exist.

Don, you can opine all you like about the merits of pursuing historical criminal cases, but the fact is, that in this jurisdiction, that avenue of redress is allowed as it should be.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hopefully the Victorian DPP thinks of possibilities like this before they prosecute cases.
The Don

Something we covered in Psychology.  The interesting aspect of this theory is the way in which the memory can be manipulated. I recall the lecture where we studied an experiment where a person was shown a photo of themselves younger in a hot air balloon and asked if they remember the trip.  (source: Garry and Gerrie) and Wade, Garry, Read and Lindsay [2002]. This was a fake photo (constructed) and the person did eventually say yes I remember it when they had not been in a balloon.

Other things to consider is memory is only as good as the details which are encoded.  This comes from our perception of the events.  I will say this again "our perception" of events or the world at the time.

Further, Attentional bottlenecks can limit the amount of information that is perceived.

Would not be complete without a reference to schema theory.  A schema is a framework or a set of ideas representing some aspect of the world. They can be concepts. Schemata influence how you interpret new information and play a larger role in what you pay attention to (attention is vital for memory encoding) when learning.  Schema determine what you learn and how you represent that knowledge.   Schemas can also lead to distortions in memory.

Memory also degrades over time and this has been proven. See Barlett's experiment 1932.  Finally, memory for detail is poor in humans who can be influenced by questions suggesting specific expectations. This is one of the reasons why Barristers are not allowed to lead witnesses in the court because of the ability to create the perception of something being real or happening when it did not.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Now that the Pell case is done and dusted, I'm tempted to wonder once again - did the jury, and any of the learned judges concerned, question why the man of God chose not to swear on his Bible to tell the truth at his trial?
I have to admit that it still baffles me.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Now that the Pell case is done and dusted, I'm tempted to wonder once again - did the jury, and any of the learned judges concerned, question why the man of God chose not to swear on his Bible to tell the truth at his trial?
I have to admit that it still baffles me.
Valvegear
Perjury, might be a legitimate reason? Or, better say nothing and be considered not innocent, than open ones gob and remove all doubt.

It’s multiple choice.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Now that the Pell case is done and dusted, I'm tempted to wonder once again - did the jury, and any of the learned judges concerned, question why the man of God chose not to swear on his Bible to tell the truth at his trial?
I have to admit that it still baffles me.
Valvegear
I was a juror in a rape case in Melbourne - the accused didn't testify either.

It's just not a good idea; if you are being cross-examined by the prosecution then you can only make your situation worse. Unless there's a really compelling reason then your brief will advise you against it.

The fact that people already didn't like Pell probably magnified that reason.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Memory is a very complex thing. I believe I can remember things from before I started school (around 1957). But do we actually remember the actual event or do we remember remembering it? I don't know the answer to that, but if the latter, might we after many years imagine that we are remembering things that are not factual? One memory I have is of a hippopotamus coming down the chimney and biting me on the bum, but I'm fairly certain that never happened! Laughing
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
If there is no statute of limitation on crimes of child abuse any victim is entitled to report an incident in the past.
...
Hopefully the Victorian DPP thinks of possibilities like this before they prosecute cases.

There is no statute of limitations for any criminal offence.
Of course there are, some of them are as short as six months. The Victorian ‘Limitations on Actions Act’ is in my view a shameful document, and the one in which the information you require is to be found.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The complete, un-redacted report of the Commission into Child Abuse has been released, and is scathing about Pell's denials that he knew anything about sexual abuse by clergy on his watch.

Watch this space!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The complete, un-redacted report of the Commission into Child Abuse has been released, and is scathing about Pell's denials that he knew anything about sexual abuse by clergy on his watch.

Watch this space!
Valvegear
Yeah look this was always the primary reason in my mind behind the ultimately botched conviction - the fact that Pell was seen as either incompetent or deliberate in ignoring those sexual activities while Bishop of Ballarat. There was certainly no shortage of that back then either with quite a few priests found guilty and rightly put away.

That damning footage of Pell walking along with Risdale to court gets played over and over again - I guess it was Pell's job to try and defend that grub, or Pell at least thought that he should have tried to limit the damage to the Church. In retrospect it does look bloody awful, no two ways about it.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

That damning footage of Pell walking along with Risdale to court gets played over and over again - I guess it was Pell's job to try and defend that grub, or Pell at least thought that he should have tried to limit the damage to the Church. In retrospect it does look bloody awful, no two ways about it.
don_dunstan
Or Pell didn't want Risdale to flip on him.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Pell lives with Russia for years so would have known his movements outside of work.
  aussie48 Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
If there is no statute of limitation on crimes of child abuse any victim is entitled to report an incident in the past.
...
Hopefully the Victorian DPP thinks of possibilities like this before they prosecute cases.

There is no statute of limitations for any criminal offence.
Of course there are, some of them are as short as six months. The Victorian ‘Limitations on Actions Act’ is in my view a shameful document, and the one in which the information you require is to be found.
Aaron
Best go and read some more of Victoria Law

Nov 1, 2019 - There are currently no general limitation periods for commencing proceedings for indictable offences in Victoria. This freedom from limitation extends to indictable offences heard and determined summarily (CPA 2009 s7(2)). Previously, there have been limitation periods in relation to some sexual offences.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Pell lives with Russia for years so would have known his movements outside of work.
"freightgate"
I suspect that freightgate has been betrayed by the auto-correct spellcheck.  I also suspect that "Russia" should read, "Risdale".
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Pell lives with Russia for years so would have known his movements outside of work.
I suspect that freightgate has been betrayed by the auto-correct spellcheck.  I also suspect that "Russia" should read, "Risdale".
Valvegear
I thought it was just a comment on Catholic-Orthodox relations being especially good these days.

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