Western Sydney Airport Metro starting early

 
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Fed Gov matches state government dollars. Project to start later this year, but no word on when actual digging starts

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-01/sydney-metro-western-sydney-airport-extra-funding-pledged/12306184

Good to see it will be open when the airport does, which will help a lot. Now we just have to fill in the missing pieces on either end.

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  ANR Deputy Commissioner

I think the line should have passed through Penrith as this will be the nearest major centre with the opposite end being Campbelltown, Narellan, Oran Park.
  y Beginner

Location: Sydney Australia
Will they still be extending the SWRL?
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Will they still be extending the SWRL?
y
That's the intention from the maps that have been published. The question is - how. The rest of this line is supposed to head south following The Northern Road and at this point goes to Narellan, and eventually connect up with the SW line somewhere around Macarthur.  How does the SWRL connect with that? Likely some sort of interchange station rather than a full connection.

BTW, the knives are already out on it. Nobody is ever happy...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/western-sydney-airport-metro-line-wont-benefit-west-academic-say/12308034
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Beyond the statement that he really wanted a station at the university campus, I am confused how this creates additional commuters into the CBD.

How many people will be living at Badgerys Creek airport?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The university has been asking for a station for quite some time and so I am not that surprised the head of the university has spoken out. The reason it is going via st mary's is because the line will eventually head to Tallawong.
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
Sydney should really get over it's hatred of changing trains.
  viaprojects Chief Train Controller

The university has been asking for a station for quite some time and so I am not that surprised the head of the university has spoken out. The reason it is going via st mary's is because the line will eventually head to Tallawong.
simstrain

the uni has a station - they just have a large campus they can build there own rail / bus system on the campus and still have space - only issue is the campus is on top of a hill ... afik all the issues are the problem for the uni .. ie fix the 580m goat track issue..
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

Penrith is more important as a stop than St Marys due to its population density.

There is much high-rise going up and it will be an important source of working people for the new airport. The entire arc of the proposed line stretching to Narellan and Campbelltown will see a large population swell.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Will they still be extending the SWRL?
y
It's been given a low priority, preferring the metro North/South Link connecting with St Marys, no doubt because the SWRL is part of the existing Sydney Trains' network which is anathema to them.  While we all know that the State government has an ideological bent towards metro expansion, regardless of whether it's warranted in the circumstances, the Feds wouldn't have a clue and are heavily influenced by the State government's preferences.  They need to be called out.

If and when they ever extend the SWRL, under current planning, it will only go as far as the Aerotropolis near North Bringelly and not to the airport itself.  It will require an interchange with the metro line at the Aerotropolis to reach the airport stations.  Utterly ridiculous.

It should be bleedingly obvious for anyone undertaking an objective analysis, that the most logical rail connection with the airport should be an extension of the SWRL from Leppington as the first priority.  But hey, it's part of the existing network and in the State government's eyes, we can't have that.  A North/South rail link from the airport to St Marys can come later, in whatever mode.

The SWRL extension to the airport would provide more immediate benefits for the South West Growth Area and Macarthur Region as well as a more direct and faster rail link via the East Hills Line to the CBD and even Parramatta via the Cumberland Line, without the need to interchange.

I hope that continuing consultation and debate will bring them to their senses, although I fear it's already been presented as a fait accompli, similar to the decision to convert the original North West Rail Link to a metro without any community consultation.
  TomBTR Chief Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
A good solution would be to copy Narita Airport in Japan. The station below the international terminal has two platforms, both bidirectional, one standard gauge for Keisei Line trains and the other for narrow gauge JR trains. At the time I visited in 2004 Keisei was being upgraded from what looked like a US-style pre-war interurban electric railway to a grade-separated express line. I did not use the JR train but they looked as if they were double deck. Outside the airport both lines were double track of course. Each company has its own route and terminates at stations on opposite sides of the Yamanote line (Tokyo circle railway), so good connections if necessary.

Too simple for Sydney, of course.
  viaprojects Chief Train Controller

Penrith is more important as a stop than St Marys due to its population density.
ANR


St Marys is the cheap option... just pick a side - car park or bus bays for the platforms  .. where as Penrith has train yards both sides and long section of track to build .. ie a few old projects need to be done before any thing happens at Penrith ..-re: rail yard at Emu Plains station ..
  viaprojects Chief Train Controller

.

Too simple for Sydney, of course.
TomBTR
we don't have the rail mess that japan has with a mix of passenger networks at the same location... just a clean slate problem with a few leadership / budget issues ..
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

NSW Gov said sometime ago that they would wait until the demand is there before building a railway to Western Sydney airport. All of a sudden they are falling over themselves to get a metro link from the airport to St Marys??? So one thinks, why? What does this present gov have to gain by such an about-face? Could it be that they envisage metro from Tallawong to Leppington? By building metro in the middle that blocks any future gov building nasty union controlled heavy rail from Leppington to the Mn West. IMO, this gov is on the nose, they know it, and know they will not survive the next election. They will push their agenda through while they still can, irrespective of what the electorate thinks.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

If and when they ever extend the SWRL, under current planning, it will only go as far as the Aerotropolis near North Bringelly and not to the airport itself.  It will require an interchange with the metro line at the Aerotropolis to reach the airport stations.  Utterly ridiculous.

It should be bleedingly obvious for anyone undertaking an objective analysis, that the most logical rail connection with the airport should be an extension of the SWRL from Leppington as the first priority.  But hey, it's part of the existing network and in the State government's eyes, we can't have that.  A North/South rail link from the airport to St Marys can come later, in whatever mode.
Transtopic

The main reason to extend the SWRL rather than a feeder bus on rails to the HR network at St Mary's is so there can be a direct connection between Badger's Creek and Kingsfard Smith.  IMHO, that is logical.  It would allow PAX to reasonably  easily transit through Sydney via either airport.

I had always thought lobbying from all of the business interests would ultimately see that happen.

But thinking about it again ...

Who wants to see a direct connection between SYD and Badger's Crack?

Certainly not QANTAS.  They's rather block it, to make it harder for their international customers to switch to a domestic budget carrier.  Certainly not [strike]MacDonalds[/strike] Macquarie Bank (owners of SYD).  They would rather maintain SYD as a premium product without any effective competitor, so they can continue to gouge travellers, airlines and everyone else in the absence of a suitable competitor.

So IMHO building the second airport link in a way which makes it as difficult as possible for PAX to transit between airports makes perfect sense, at least to those who have the most vested in the decision.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Sydney should really get over it's hatred of changing trains.
stooge spark
Good luck with that.  Suburban commuters have every right to feel aggrieved when they are denied a direct link with the CBD, being forced to interchange, when they have previously enjoyed this privilege for decades.  Of course, metro commuters won't be so disadvantaged.  It's a one-way street.

It's a totally different matter when changing between lines to reach destinations outside of the CBD or even within the CBD itself (eg T1/T9 to T2, T3, T4 and T8 and vice versa), which I think everyone readily accepts.

The metro diehards need a reality check to understand what the travelling public will or won't accept.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
If and when they ever extend the SWRL, under current planning, it will only go as far as the Aerotropolis near North Bringelly and not to the airport itself.  It will require an interchange with the metro line at the Aerotropolis to reach the airport stations.  Utterly ridiculous.

It should be bleedingly obvious for anyone undertaking an objective analysis, that the most logical rail connection with the airport should be an extension of the SWRL from Leppington as the first priority.  But hey, it's part of the existing network and in the State government's eyes, we can't have that.  A North/South rail link from the airport to St Marys can come later, in whatever mode.

The main reason to extend the SWRL rather than a feeder bus on rails to the HR network at St Mary's is so there can be a direct connection between Badger's Creek and Kingsfard Smith.  IMHO, that is logical.  It would allow PAX to reasonably  easily transit through Sydney via either airport.

I had always thought lobbying from all of the business interests would ultimately see that happen.

But thinking about it again ...

Who wants to see a direct connection between SYD and Badger's Crack?

Certainly not QANTAS.  They's rather block it, to make it harder for their international customers to switch to a domestic budget carrier.  Certainly not [strike]MacDonalds[/strike] Macquarie Bank (owners of SYD).  They would rather maintain SYD as a premium product without any effective competitor, so they can continue to gouge travellers, airlines and everyone else in the absence of a suitable competitor.

So IMHO building the second airport link in a way which makes it as difficult as possible for PAX to transit between airports makes perfect sense, at least to those who have the most vested in the decision.
djf01
While I generally agree with your synopsis, I don't think that the main reason to extend the SWRL is to provide a direct connection between Badgerys Creek and Kingsford Smith, although it would obviously be a beneficiary of that.

IMO, the most important consideration is to provide a more immediate fast direct link with the CBD via the East Hills Line express tracks, without interchange, compared with the convoluted metro connection via St Marys requiring interchange to the Sydney Trains system for a slower journey, even to Parramatta.  Bear in mind that the progressive rollout of ATO across the Sydney Trains' network over the next decade will significantly reduce journey times, as well as increasing frequencies, allowing the latest rolling stock to fully utilise its design specifications with a maximum speed up to 130km/h and enhanced acceleration/deceleration and in the latter case, matching that of the metro trains.

At the end of the day, the Federal Government has foreshadowed its intention to sell Badgerys Creek Airport to a private operator, similar to Sydney Airport.  You would think that in order to maximise the sale price, they would want to ensure that BC can be competitive with Sydney Airport in attracting business, not just from Western Sydney, but from the whole of the Sydney Region and the State.  To achieve that, a fast direct rail link with the CBD will be essential, sooner rather than later.

I don't think the Feds have yet thought this through and I sincerely hope that they will eventually wake up to the fact that they are being conned by the State Government in preferencing their long term metro agenda.  The State Government will have no say in the sale of the airport as it's a strictly Federal matter.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
A direct link between a city`s two airports does not seem to be on the radar for other global cities. They seem to have their own natural catchment and dont seem to need fast direct links, thinking about New York (JFK and Newark), London (Heathrow, London City, Gatwick). No direct rail links there. In fact for London City they had the opportunity with Crossrail to create a direct connection with Heathrow, but despite Crossrail going next to the site, there is no Crossrail station.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
A direct link between a city`s two airports does not seem to be on the radar for other global cities. They seem to have their own natural catchment and dont seem to need fast direct links, thinking about New York (JFK and Newark), London (Heathrow, London City, Gatwick). No direct rail links there. In fact for London City they had the opportunity with Crossrail to create a direct connection with Heathrow, but despite Crossrail going next to the site, there is no Crossrail station.
arctic
As I alluded to in my earlier post, that's not really the issue, which is to provide a more direct fast rail link between Badgerys Creek and the CBD, which the current proposal doesn't.
  Totoro Station Master

Great to see the Federal and NSW State government working together to bring this to fruition, this is exactly the sort of project we need right now; high tech, greenfield construction, will be a city shaping transport spine for the whole of Western Sydney.

I agree with that some that it may seem a bit piecemeal to start with; but one the initial Airport -> St Marys link is there then I’m sure other expansions (to Tallawong) and interchange options (to SWRL) will be on the table. It’s all part of a big picture Metro future for Sydney and I’m looking forward to watching it take shape.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Great to see the Federal and NSW State government working together to bring this to fruition, this is exactly the sort of project we need right now; high tech, greenfield construction, will be a city shaping transport spine for the whole of Western Sydney.

I agree with that some that it may seem a bit piecemeal to start with; but one the initial Airport -> St Marys link is there then I’m sure other expansions (to Tallawong) and interchange options (to SWRL) will be on the table. It’s all part of a big picture Metro future for Sydney and I’m looking forward to watching it take shape.
Totoro
Comment brought to you directly from NSW Liberal Party Headquarters.Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

NSW Gov said sometime ago that they would wait until the demand is there before building a railway to Western Sydney airport. All of a sudden they are falling over themselves to get a metro link from the airport to St Marys??? So one thinks, why? What does this present gov have to gain by such an about-face? Could it be that they envisage metro from Tallawong to Leppington? By building metro in the middle that blocks any future gov building nasty union controlled heavy rail from Leppington to the Mn West. IMO, this gov is on the nose, they know it, and know they will not survive the next election. They will push their agenda through while they still can, irrespective of what the electorate thinks.
Lockspike
That next election is 3 years away and what you said about being on the nose was said at the last election and look at what happened. Maybe they will lose the next election in 2023 but to state it outright without learning the lessons from the last election means that you haven't learned a thing about recent politics and elections. Just because they are on the nose with you and unions it doesn't mean they are on the nose with everybody.
  Totoro Station Master

@nswtrains

Comment brought to you directly from NSW Liberal Party Headquarters.https://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gifhttps://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gifhttps://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Not true (and not fair!). I’m fairly agnostic when it comes to politics. It’s a simple that *someone* has to balance out all the Metro haters, and I guess that person is me.

Since you had to go and make this political, then I will have you know that I would certainly consider voting for the ALP, if only they could come up with a practical plan for funding new rail in Sydney. In my lifetime they have achieved precious little on this front however, so I suspect I’ll waiting a while longer before I cast a red vote. Smile
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
A direct link between a city`s two airports does not seem to be on the radar for other global cities. They seem to have their own natural catchment and dont seem to need fast direct links, thinking about New York (JFK and Newark), London (Heathrow, London City, Gatwick). No direct rail links there. In fact for London City they had the opportunity with Crossrail to create a direct connection with Heathrow, but despite Crossrail going next to the site, there is no Crossrail station.
As I alluded to in my earlier post, that's not really the issue, which is to provide a more direct fast rail link between Badgerys Creek and the CBD, which the current proposal doesn't.
Transtopic
Well to play Devils advocate, is there a need to duplicate the amenity already existing with Kingsford Smith Airport and its rail link? Maybe the idea is that Western Sydney Airport is mainly for Western Sydney and will have its own catchment?

To look at this further, none of the airports I referenced above offer a one seat rail ride to their respective business CBDs, except for the light rail from LCY to London City.
  Matthew Train Controller

As much as I dislike the incompatibility the metro has introduced to the suburban rail network, I hope someone OTHER than Alstom gets the contract for the western airport line.
Riding various ATO metros. I've found ones based on the Invensys 'Trainguard' are much superior to the Alstom Urbalis system used in Sydney. In particular, I've found the Sydney Metro appears to either full power or full brake, it's not got the ability to anticipate ahead of the current block and speed code. The Trainguard appears to 'look ahead' and is not so harsh with the application of power or brake.

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