Black Lives Matter Protests

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Firstly, I've never ever advocated that money is the answer, I'm not saying that you suggested that I did but I just wanted to make that clear.

Answers. Do I have them? Do you have the answers to UAE's appalling human rights issues, whether it be its treatment of migrant workers or its demeaning treatment of women? What are you going to do about it? I seem to recall that Don has mentioned previously that he has had experience working with troubled youth - does he have the answers to fix those issues once and for all? Why is that situation worse than ever?

All I want to see is people being treated equally. Scenario: You are an employer looking to recruit someone for a critical role. Only two applicants make the final shortlist, both equally qualified and experienced. It is impossible to pick one over the other based solely on merit. I put it to you that 99% of employers will still pick the white fella over the blakfella. And so the disadvantage, and inequality, continues. You hear later that 95% of white fellas are employed but only 70% of blakfellas. You could have done something to reduce inequality in society as a whole, enriching us all, but couldn't bring yourself to buck the trend.

My philosophy is that we are all passengers on the same ship. That could be planet Earth in a global sense, but for the purpose of this discussion let's assume breaking it down to just Australia. Taken literally, a cruise ship called Australia. Every passenger on that ship is entitled to dine in the restaurants or pig out from the bain-maries, it's their choice on the day. They can go to the same shows, swim in the same pools, go to the same bars, go on the same shore based excursions, etc. etc. Everyone has equal opportunity. Now imagine if one cohort of passengers are told by the 'captain' (people in power) that they are only entitled to inside cabins instead of balcony rooms or suites, and that they should be thankful for that. Imagine if they were barred entry to the restaurants because 'others' felt uncomfortable, when in fact, the white fellas already seated in the restaurant are the 'others.'

Why does it have to be that way?

We are all passengers on the same ship!
"DirtyBallast"


- You may not have advocated the money is the answer, but you haven't put anything else on the table either, just criticised others who have.

- We are not talking about UAE, however if you want to go there. Migrant workers are generally employed by their own nationality with the govt setting the minimum standards. While some fall on hard times due to bad bosses and employers, most however do not in what is one of the most regulated employment areas in the world.

- As for poor human rights for women. While women do not have the same as Australia they do have other. They have their own taxis if they want, 1 car on the Metro train is for them, as is the front of the bus, they have seperate queues in govt and some private sector that is 1/10 as long as males. Female arabs who work have the cultural right to keep their own money they earn, they do not need to share it with their husband who is expected and does fund both his children and his parents welfare, even after divorce and her income has nothing to do with how much he pays. Ladies nights here basically = ladies go to the pub and drink for free and and go to the beach and you will never see so many G-string bikini's. Night club's, bars or restaurants after dark and some supermarkets its cleavage city, so yes its tough being male here.  UAE has female fighter pilots who fly in combat.

- I do not have the training or experience to work with troubled kids, in the UAE however I do fix bikes for low income kids and provide donations of toys and old ipads etc. In Australia, for 30 years now I have regularly and only donated to charities just for kids health and welfare and animals. On return to Australia if I can afford not to work or when I eventually retire I have my own plans for community work. In India i used to fine my team for breeches in safety and punctuality, fine was based on their grade, I doubled the money each month and the money was donated to a local orphanage. My wife and I seriously considered adopting a baby or young girl from India, however the $60-80k cost was not within our means and now I'm considered "too old", this will likely be my biggest regret in life. (note: is this considered supporting "stolen generations" type policies?)

Govt departments and large private companies would unlikely be making a decision based on "colour" and if anything in other aspects its likely to be reverse trying to achieve targets. If in a smaller employer not exposed to external scrutiny then if the only difference is colour and they choose white over black then you have to ask why. Its unlikely to be just the colour of the skin, rather what culture comes with that colour. and does the employer have previous bad or perceived bad history of that culture. There are only so many times an employer will put up with certain crap.

I agree with your ship statement, however while "whites" are often drawn and quartered as being racists and lets be clear, its colourism and culture based discrimination, not just because someone came from Africa. Yes some "whites" are but I have yet to find a non-white culture that is less colour racist than the so-called Europeans. Europeans can quickly flown up the discrimination flag pole due to past colonial practices, but Asian, sub-cont, African continue today and often still entrenched in law or popular culture and leaves most white discrimination for dead.

Back to the Aboriginal problem. Its hard to help people fix a problem they don't want fixed and I think Aaron's example is all too common and you can see the denial from the funding side, kid didn't turn up, so give us back our money, not make the harder and right choice by approaching the parents. All too often you see debates on TV or similar and the Aboriginal returned argument when someone highlights such things is to simply state the other person is a racist. Reply 101 when you hear something you don't like, don't attack their argument, attack them.   Being on the "same boat" means you acknowledge your faults the same as others and while rape, incest, domestic and sexual abuse are not treated the same as in non-aboriginal culture then nothing will change. I personally detest the stolen generations policy of the day, but the more you read and see for your eyes whats going on today, which is worse?

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  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
If Railpage made a house rule that people aren't allowed to criticise unless they can provide an alternative, it would be shut down due to lack of posts! Laughing

Look again at what my post was all about and you will realise that in fact, I suggested that respect and equal treatment would be a welcome step. Unfortunately any benefit from that can't be quantified in absolute dollar terms, so those people concerned only about money will dismiss it out of hand.

I've had a similar discussion elsewhere a long time ago, way back when Hockey was treasurer IIRC, but the subject was regarding those seen by some as dole bludgers. There was a strong feeling among the 'dry right' clique that regularly posted there along the lines of "If we could only get rid of them or cut them off altogether" or similar, citing the $ cost of the burden they imposed on the rest of the nation as the one and only factor worthy of consideration. In reply I used a ladder as a metaphor; if everyone in the nation occupied a rung on a ladder determined by their wealth and social status, and those near the bottom of the ladder were seen by everyone above them as a burden or not being of value and a decision was made to cut those rungs off to 'improve' society, what is the consequence? Obviously, people that were previously not on the bottom of the ladder, now are. Taken to the nth degree the ladder would end up consisting of only one rung. No-one wants that.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If Railpage made a house rule that people aren't allowed to criticise unless they can provide an alternative, it would be shut down due to lack of posts! Laughing

Look again at what my post was all about and you will realise that in fact, I suggested that respect and equal treatment would be a welcome step. Unfortunately any benefit from that can't be quantified in absolute dollar terms, so those people concerned only about money will dismiss it out of hand.

I've had a similar discussion elsewhere a long time ago, way back when Hockey was treasurer IIRC, but the subject was regarding those seen by some as dole bludgers. There was a strong feeling among the 'dry right' clique that regularly posted there along the lines of "If we could only get rid of them or cut them off altogether" or similar, citing the $ cost of the burden they imposed on the rest of the nation as the one and only factor worthy of consideration. In reply I used a ladder as a metaphor; if everyone in the nation occupied a rung on a ladder determined by their wealth and social status, and those near the bottom of the ladder were seen by everyone above them as a burden or not being of value and a decision was made to cut those rungs off to 'improve' society, what is the consequence? Obviously, people that were previously not on the bottom of the ladder, now are. Taken to the nth degree the ladder would end up consisting of only one rung. No-one wants that.
"DirtyBallast"


Yeah probably, but I'd rather have a discussion with someone who at least puts their 2.2c on the table rather than hangs $hit at anything I say.

You called for respect, agree. Respect is a two way street and generall I give it up front until they other indicates otherwise. For much of post European arrival there wasn't much respect for the native population. The issue today is when I talk to my mum (born and raised Moree/Inverall), her feeling is they have less today than in 50's and 60's, yet the rest of society is more tolerate and open. Why?
Personally I don't feel alot of respect coming from the other side, unlike most other "non-white groups".

The Aboriginal welfare bill on its own isn't huge, although there is a $hit load of money being wasted in various programs over the years and yes its likely in the many billions including the former ATSIC.

What we do now? Many of them claim they don't respect or care for "white man rules", are they asking for two separate systems? Do they want us to fence off say the NT, let them have it to themselves? That fence applies to welfare as well.

In crude terms the aboriginal people are a concurred nation, treated like crap for nearly 200 years before things started to change, although questionable they have changed for the better, but you'd be hard to argue the opportunities don't exist if they want to make a go of it with assistance from the govt that the rest of the population is entitled to. Billions have been spent by "white mans guilt" trying to undo past wrong doing, yet little has been achieved with that money apart from large scale corruption and mismanagement. Regardless the aboriginal people need to accept that 24.5M non-aboriginal people are not leaving and if they want others to respect them as a people and their culture, they first need to respect themselves, which from my personal experience, they don't, not all, but too many. The ones who respect themselves have jobs, nice homes and good kids, others.....
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

If Railpage made a house rule that people aren't allowed to criticise unless they can provide an alternative, it would be shut down due to lack of posts! Laughing

Look again at what my post was all about and you will realise that in fact, I suggested that respect and equal treatment would be a welcome step. Unfortunately any benefit from that can't be quantified in absolute dollar terms, so those people concerned only about money will dismiss it out of hand.

I've had a similar discussion elsewhere a long time ago, way back when Hockey was treasurer IIRC, but the subject was regarding those seen by some as dole bludgers. There was a strong feeling among the 'dry right' clique that regularly posted there along the lines of "If we could only get rid of them or cut them off altogether" or similar, citing the $ cost of the burden they imposed on the rest of the nation as the one and only factor worthy of consideration. In reply I used a ladder as a metaphor; if everyone in the nation occupied a rung on a ladder determined by their wealth and social status, and those near the bottom of the ladder were seen by everyone above them as a burden or not being of value and a decision was made to cut those rungs off to 'improve' society, what is the consequence? Obviously, people that were previously not on the bottom of the ladder, now are. Taken to the nth degree the ladder would end up consisting of only one rung. No-one wants that.
DirtyBallast
I agree. The type of thinking that motivated the Nazis in Germany and we saw how that ended up. How many millions murdered. The type of thinking outlined by DirtyBallast is a slippery slop to all sorts of horrors. That's why I don't like the extreme right of any party as to my mind they are Nazis.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
If Railpage made a house rule that people aren't allowed to criticise unless they can provide an alternative, it would be shut down due to lack of posts! Laughing

Look again at what my post was all about and you will realise that in fact, I suggested that respect and equal treatment would be a welcome step. Unfortunately any benefit from that can't be quantified in absolute dollar terms, so those people concerned only about money will dismiss it out of hand.

I've had a similar discussion elsewhere a long time ago, way back when Hockey was treasurer IIRC, but the subject was regarding those seen by some as dole bludgers. There was a strong feeling among the 'dry right' clique that regularly posted there along the lines of "If we could only get rid of them or cut them off altogether" or similar, citing the $ cost of the burden they imposed on the rest of the nation as the one and only factor worthy of consideration. In reply I used a ladder as a metaphor; if everyone in the nation occupied a rung on a ladder determined by their wealth and social status, and those near the bottom of the ladder were seen by everyone above them as a burden or not being of value and a decision was made to cut those rungs off to 'improve' society, what is the consequence? Obviously, people that were previously not on the bottom of the ladder, now are. Taken to the nth degree the ladder would end up consisting of only one rung. No-one wants that.
DirtyBallast
This is one of the better thought-out and well reasoned posts that you've made here but you're still wrong.

There might be a succession of right-wingers in the LNP who say things like this but the fact is that they couldn't get their way. Tony Abbott's ill-conceived idea to make people on the dole wait inordinate amounts of time before they could get any money was ultimately rejected by his own party as well as the senate as being impractical and simply cruel while they were simultaneously off-shoring quarter of a million jobs from the closure of the car industry.

Same with the treatment of Aboriginal disadvantage: Scott Morrison isn't proposing cutting off support to the various Aboriginal organizations doing the work with "Closing the Gap" - he's actually going to continue to fund them and provide extra money. This is despite the fact that numerous Aboriginal critics like Warren Mundine and Jacinta Price have pointed out that these programs have actually failed miserably and haven't delivered anything like their targets.

That's what the real scandal is here: The fact that the government has been throwing an average of three billion dollars every single year to a program where the outcomes have actually been getting worse - and they're continuing to fund the same organisations delivering the same services that are not making a fig of difference to key targets of keeping Aboriginal kids and adults out of jail, improving infant mortality, improving literacy, improving life expectancy etc.

Instead of recognising that what they're doing isn't working they're continuing to throw hard-earned taxpayer money at more of the same.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
If Railpage made a house rule that people aren't allowed to criticise unless they can provide an alternative, it would be shut down due to lack of posts! Laughing

Look again at what my post was all about and you will realise that in fact, I suggested that respect and equal treatment would be a welcome step. Unfortunately any benefit from that can't be quantified in absolute dollar terms, so those people concerned only about money will dismiss it out of hand.

I've had a similar discussion elsewhere a long time ago, way back when Hockey was treasurer IIRC, but the subject was regarding those seen by some as dole bludgers. There was a strong feeling among the 'dry right' clique that regularly posted there along the lines of "If we could only get rid of them or cut them off altogether" or similar, citing the $ cost of the burden they imposed on the rest of the nation as the one and only factor worthy of consideration. In reply I used a ladder as a metaphor; if everyone in the nation occupied a rung on a ladder determined by their wealth and social status, and those near the bottom of the ladder were seen by everyone above them as a burden or not being of value and a decision was made to cut those rungs off to 'improve' society, what is the consequence? Obviously, people that were previously not on the bottom of the ladder, now are. Taken to the nth degree the ladder would end up consisting of only one rung. No-one wants that.
I agree. The type of thinking that motivated the Nazis in Germany and we saw how that ended up. How many millions murdered. The type of thinking outlined by DirtyBallast is a slippery slop to all sorts of horrors. That's why I don't like the extreme right of any party as to my mind they are Nazis.
nswtrains
That's ridiculous.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This is one of the better thought-out and well reasoned posts that you've made here but you're still wrong.

There might be a succession of right-wingers in the LNP who say things like this but the fact is that they couldn't get their way. Tony Abbott's ill-conceived idea to make people on the dole wait inordinate amounts of time before they could get any money was ultimately rejected by his own party as well as the senate as being impractical and simply cruel while they were simultaneously off-shoring quarter of a million jobs from the closure of the car industry.

Same with the treatment of Aboriginal disadvantage: Scott Morrison isn't proposing cutting off support to the various Aboriginal organizations doing the work with "Closing the Gap" - he's actually going to continue to fund them and provide extra money. This is despite the fact that numerous Aboriginal critics like Warren Mundine and Jacinta Price have pointed out that these programs have actually failed miserably and haven't delivered anything like their targets.

That's what the real scandal is here: The fact that the government has been throwing an average of three billion dollars every single year to a program where the outcomes have actually been getting worse - and they're continuing to fund the same organisations delivering the same services that are not making a fig of difference to key targets of keeping Aboriginal kids and adults out of jail, improving infant mortality, improving literacy, improving life expectancy etc.

Instead of recognizing that what they're doing isn't working they're continuing to throw hard-earned taxpayer money at more of the same.
"don_dunstan"


Don,
As we have gone through this discussion I have been doing a bit of reading to make sure I'm not too off centre with this. As I said before I've been to some communities and have relatives who either grew up in high aboriginal towns or done support work as well as teachers.  The disappointing part of all this is the more I read the more "hard core" my thinking is becoming.

SCOMO will continue to fund because he doesn't have a choice, its a tax on Australian society. If he stops spending money he gives the far left and UN an excuse to accuse Australia for doing nothing to support Aboriginal welfare. Spending the money is at least saying "we are trying" despite the fact I think most here and in govt know its likely pointless.

DB doesn't want to see 10yr olds locked up, neither does anyone else, but that isn't going to change anytime soon as the alt is to continue to let them run riot. There are already unreported vigilante "white" groups that go around some towns to sort some people out, especially in NW WA and western Qld when things get out of hand, letting more out of jail will only make this worse.

Had a friend in Port Headland, she was bashed one night by a group of Aboriginal women walking across an oval at night, wrong place, wrong time. The response was the local drug dealer sold the same women much higher grade stuff they they are used to (I think she said it was coke), most ended up in hospital, some never fully recovered. This is the sort of vigilante responses that are occurring in mining and rural communities and almost none of it ever gets in the media.  

Unfortunately the situation is well and truly broken and no one knows how to fix it or indeed want it fixed and in the mean time we will continue to pay our guilt tax.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If you read this
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/12/business/black-women-hairstyles-interview-scli-intl-scn/index.html

You would think the "evil" US is again discriminating against women of African heritage and forcing them to change.

However, has anyone been to Corporate Africa, for example, the capitals of Nigeria, Kenya etc. Unlike the US, nearly all women in corporate roles or jobs with people contact and many others without in Africa shave their heads and wear wigs because having natural hair is the fastest way to unemployment, yet not one "white" person is doing the recruiting.  Fortunately there are some signs of change in Africa to moving away from this, but its still mostly more often than not.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Good essay on the problems with Marxism that the BLM movement are repeating, and that democratic liberals are falling for:
https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/

This caught my attention:

Thus the endless dance of liberalism and Marxism, which goes like this:
1. Liberals declare that henceforth all will be free and equal, emphasizing that reason (not tradition) will determine the content of each individual’s rights.
2. Marxists, exercising reason, point to many genuine instances of unfreedom and inequality in society, decrying them as oppression and demanding new rights.
3. Liberals, embarrassed by the presence of unfreedom and inequality after having declared that all would be free and equal, adopt some of the Marxists’ demands for new rights.
4. Return to #1 above and repeat.


In the end, the oppressed become oppressors.  Just as Orwell described in Animal Farm.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Lidia Thorpe shows how much she cares about the problem of illiteracy and black disadvantage in Australia's outback communities by virtue signalling the hell out of herself for her first day as a senator...

  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Lidia Thorpe shows how much she cares about the problem of illiteracy and black disadvantage in Australia's outback communities by virtue signalling the hell out of herself for her first day as a senator...

don_dunstan
How do you come to that conclusion?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
How do you come to that conclusion?
nswtrains
Because I've been following her stellar career as a politician for quite a while and I've never once heard her speak about the scourge of domestic violence, child abuse or alcohol in the communities. And she lives in Northcote, which is pretty much as far away from the real problems of Aboriginal Australia as you can possibly get.

But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
How do you come to that conclusion?
Because I've been following her stellar career as a politician for quite a while and I've never once heard her speak about the scourge of domestic violence, child abuse or alcohol in the communities. And she lives in Northcote, which is pretty much as far away from the real problems of Aboriginal Australia as you can possibly get.

But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?
don_dunstan
Northcote is pretty close to Fitzroy, innit? Are you totally ignorant of that suburbs demographic? Haven't you previously claimed to be ex-Melbourne? What learnings did you take with you when you left?

Now you seem more phony to me than ever.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

How do you come to that conclusion?
Because I've been following her stellar career as a politician for quite a while and I've never once heard her speak about the scourge of domestic violence, child abuse or alcohol in the communities. And she lives in Northcote, which is pretty much as far away from the real problems of Aboriginal Australia as you can possibly get.

But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?
don_dunstan
'But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?'

I am not sure who you are directing the above comment to, but if it's me,  then it's quite presumptive, as I came from working class parents and took 6 years part time study, whilst working full time, to just obtain my degree. I have never been handed anything on a plate. I think sometimes you should pull your head in.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Good essay on the problems with Marxism that the BLM movement are repeating, and that democratic liberals are falling for:
https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/

This caught my attention:

Thus the endless dance of liberalism and Marxism, which goes like this:
1. Liberals declare that henceforth all will be free and equal, emphasizing that reason (not tradition) will determine the content of each individual’s rights.
2. Marxists, exercising reason, point to many genuine instances of unfreedom and inequality in society, decrying them as oppression and demanding new rights.
3. Liberals, embarrassed by the presence of unfreedom and inequality after having declared that all would be free and equal, adopt some of the Marxists’ demands for new rights.
4. Return to #1 above and repeat.


In the end, the oppressed become oppressors.  Just as Orwell described in Animal Farm.
Carnot

Saw and interesting video of a black dude in the US demanding Texas (and another state) be handed over blacks so they can form their own country.

It won't happen and I'm sure that guy knows it and I have no idea what his real agenda is, but I can only foresee another Zimbabwe or South Africa with reverse racial discrimination, nationalisation of industry under the guise to fund social schemes that are lost in a sea of corruption and incompetence with the a new wall needing to be built to stop the illegal migration out of this new country into the USA.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Good essay on the problems with Marxism that the BLM movement are repeating, and that democratic liberals are falling for:
https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/

This caught my attention:

Thus the endless dance of liberalism and Marxism, which goes like this:
1. Liberals declare that henceforth all will be free and equal, emphasizing that reason (not tradition) will determine the content of each individual’s rights.
2. Marxists, exercising reason, point to many genuine instances of unfreedom and inequality in society, decrying them as oppression and demanding new rights.
3. Liberals, embarrassed by the presence of unfreedom and inequality after having declared that all would be free and equal, adopt some of the Marxists’ demands for new rights.
4. Return to #1 above and repeat.


In the end, the oppressed become oppressors.  Just as Orwell described in Animal Farm.
Carnot

Saw and interesting video of a black dude in the US demanding Texas (and another state) be handed over blacks so they can form their own country.

It won't happen and I'm sure that guy knows it and I have no idea what his real agenda is, but I can only foresee another Zimbabwe or South Africa with reverse racial discrimination, nationalisation of industry under the guise to fund social schemes that are lost in a sea of corruption and incompetence with the a new wall needing to be built to stop the illegal migration out of this new country into the USA.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Interesting idea, although if they followed through with their Leftist Dogma, they'd have to hand it straight over to the Caddo or whatever indiginious people were there before the Spaniards. They could also try a Return to Africa thing, Liberia II, and see how that worked out. Couldn't be much worse than Liberia I.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Good essay on the problems with Marxism that the BLM movement are repeating, and that democratic liberals are falling for:
https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/

This caught my attention:

Thus the endless dance of liberalism and Marxism, which goes like this:
1. Liberals declare that henceforth all will be free and equal, emphasizing that reason (not tradition) will determine the content of each individual’s rights.
2. Marxists, exercising reason, point to many genuine instances of unfreedom and inequality in society, decrying them as oppression and demanding new rights.
3. Liberals, embarrassed by the presence of unfreedom and inequality after having declared that all would be free and equal, adopt some of the Marxists’ demands for new rights.
4. Return to #1 above and repeat.


In the end, the oppressed become oppressors.  Just as Orwell described in Animal Farm.

Saw and interesting video of a black dude in the US demanding Texas (and another state) be handed over blacks so they can form their own country.

It won't happen and I'm sure that guy knows it and I have no idea what his real agenda is, but I can only foresee another Zimbabwe or South Africa with reverse racial discrimination, nationalisation of industry under the guise to fund social schemes that are lost in a sea of corruption and incompetence with the a new wall needing to be built to stop the illegal migration out of this new country into the USA.
RTT_Rules
Wow and you wonder why black people are so pissed off at the mo.

I think the idea of a black homeland in the US is bloody stupid, but I must take umbrdge at your statement. For you to automatically assume that everything will descend into chaos because black people are in charge is just really poor. A statement not even taking into account the poor educational levels afforded to blacks in South Africa and Zimbabwe because of oppression. A lot of black people in the US are very well educated, (thanks to the HBCU's set up by black people)  I am confident that if there were a black homeland in the US, that they will not make the same mistakes as South Africa and Zimbabwe. And RTT there are emerging African Nations like Rwanda and Botswana and Tanzania that are successful.

There has been a lot of goodwill done by whites to blacks and by blacks to whites but RTT the undeniable fact is that in the US on the whole, white people have been far more hostile to black people than blacks to whites. And no section of the community has shown more grace than the black woman. Case in point, when that racist muppet Dylan Roof went into that black church in Charleston, who gave him love, yeah you got it, black women. if black people did not show the grace they have in the face absolute sometimes overt racism they have faced there would be black terror cells in the US. The fact that black people serve in the military for a country that on the whole does not love them speaks volumes.

WTF is Reverse Racial Discrimination? Racial Discrimination is Racial Discrimination whether its is black to white or white to black.

There is a lot of things I agree with you RTT, but this you can kiss it on this one.



Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Interesting idea, although if they followed through with their Leftist Dogma, they'd have to hand it straight over to the Caddo or whatever indiginious people were there before the Spaniards. They could also try a Return to Africa thing, Liberia II, and see how that worked out. Couldn't be much worse than Liberia I.
billybaxter
And you can just try to not to spew crap and be racist, Billy.


Michael
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
How do you come to that conclusion?
Because I've been following her stellar career as a politician for quite a while and I've never once heard her speak about the scourge of domestic violence, child abuse or alcohol in the communities. And she lives in Northcote, which is pretty much as far away from the real problems of Aboriginal Australia as you can possibly get.

But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?
Northcote is pretty close to Fitzroy, innit? Are you totally ignorant of that suburbs demographic? Haven't you previously claimed to be ex-Melbourne? What learnings did you take with you when you left?

Now you seem more phony to me than ever.
DirtyBallast
Oh please, you really think the high rise is what that suburb is now-days? You can't win an argument so you resort to personal abuse.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
How do you come to that conclusion?
Because I've been following her stellar career as a politician for quite a while and I've never once heard her speak about the scourge of domestic violence, child abuse or alcohol in the communities. And she lives in Northcote, which is pretty much as far away from the real problems of Aboriginal Australia as you can possibly get.

But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?
Northcote is pretty close to Fitzroy, innit? Are you totally ignorant of that suburbs demographic? Haven't you previously claimed to be ex-Melbourne? What learnings did you take with you when you left?

Now you seem more phony to me than ever.
Oh please, you really think the high rise is what that suburb is now-days? You can't win an argument so you resort to personal abuse.
don_dunstan
Well, no-one can ever win an argument against you, can they Don? Rolling Eyes
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
How do you come to that conclusion?
Because I've been following her stellar career as a politician for quite a while and I've never once heard her speak about the scourge of domestic violence, child abuse or alcohol in the communities. And she lives in Northcote, which is pretty much as far away from the real problems of Aboriginal Australia as you can possibly get.

But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?
Northcote is pretty close to Fitzroy, innit? Are you totally ignorant of that suburbs demographic? Haven't you previously claimed to be ex-Melbourne? What learnings did you take with you when you left?

Now you seem more phony to me than ever.
Oh please, you really think the high rise is what that suburb is now-days? You can't win an argument so you resort to personal abuse.
Well, no-one can ever win an argument against you, can they Don? Rolling Eyes
DirtyBallast
I can respect people who at least construct a valid argument against my point of view, Dirty Ballast. Whereas you nearly always resort to name-calling.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Wow and you wonder why black people are so pissed off at the mo.

I think the idea of a black homeland in the US is bloody stupid, but I must take umbrdge at your statement. For you to automatically assume that everything will descend into chaos because black people are in charge is just really poor. A statement not even taking into account the poor educational levels afforded to blacks in South Africa and Zimbabwe because of oppression. A lot of black people in the US are very well educated, (thanks to the HBCU's set up by black people)  I am confident that if there were a black homeland in the US, that they will not make the same mistakes as South Africa and Zimbabwe. And RTT there are emerging African Nations like Rwanda and Botswana and Tanzania that are successful.

There has been a lot of goodwill done by whites to blacks and by blacks to whites but RTT the undeniable fact is that in the US on the whole, white people have been far more hostile to black people than blacks to whites. And no section of the community has shown more grace than the black woman. Case in point, when that racist muppet Dylan Roof went into that black church in Charleston, who gave him love, yeah you got it, black women. if black people did not show the grace they have in the face absolute sometimes overt racism they have faced there would be black terror cells in the US. The fact that black people serve in the military for a country that on the whole does not love them speaks volumes.

WTF is Reverse Racial Discrimination? Racial Discrimination is Racial Discrimination whether its is black to white or white to black.

There is a lot of things I agree with you RTT, but this you can kiss it on this one.



Michael
mejhammers1
I was trying to find the video again, it came up randomly and was being presented by a black guy who explained alot more reasons why it would fail than I did.

I'm comparing to Sth Africa and Zimbabwe due to their more prominent white rule. Tanzania and as far as I know Botswana have less of this and their local "white" communities are generally not part of the govt system for a long time. Also like Kenya. I've been to Tanzania, its not all smooth sailing.

However experience seems to be as soon as a majority discriminated group get power, they turn the tables. I think few would argue that should this proposal ever succeed, it will not be bench mark for mixed race co-habitation.

Also why Texas? Something to do with oil? Could also lead to an issue with the large agriculture sector as traditionally in the USA, black Americans have very low representation into the farming sector.  

As for which sub group is more or less racist in the USA, I really don't care, its entrenched on both sides of the fence and I don't see a solution occurring any time soon but I know it needs to come from both sides and this starts with acknowledging some of the issues raised by the likes Morgan Freeman and other leading black celebrities who have stating many of the problems are brought on themselves. For example the BLM protests, much of the violence is black on black.

Back to that video of the black female lady looking to get into congress or senate for Baltimore. Some of her comments
- Democrat run cities have more poverty for blacks. A real chicken and the egg scenario. Are blacks poor because they are living in Democrat cities or are just poor blacks more likely to vote Democrat? I think most know its probably the later.

- Violence to blacks was very high, she didn't say who was causing it. I don't know the answer but a guess wouldn't be hard to get wrong.

At the end of the day it was just a video by some wacko proposing something that will never fly, but my comment was that should it happen it would more than likely be prone to economic/social disaster because of deep rooted issues in the US black community. As per discussion with another poster here a few weeks back and along the lines of Morgan Freeman, there are deep social issues in part of the black community in the USA that needs to be resolved by the black community, not just the racist whites.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Wow and you wonder why black people are so pissed off at the mo.

I think the idea of a black homeland in the US is bloody stupid, but I must take umbrdge at your statement. For you to automatically assume that everything will descend into chaos because black people are in charge is just really poor. A statement not even taking into account the poor educational levels afforded to blacks in South Africa and Zimbabwe because of oppression. A lot of black people in the US are very well educated, (thanks to the HBCU's set up by black people)  I am confident that if there were a black homeland in the US, that they will not make the same mistakes as South Africa and Zimbabwe. And RTT there are emerging African Nations like Rwanda and Botswana and Tanzania that are successful.

There has been a lot of goodwill done by whites to blacks and by blacks to whites but RTT the undeniable fact is that in the US on the whole, white people have been far more hostile to black people than blacks to whites. And no section of the community has shown more grace than the black woman. Case in point, when that racist muppet Dylan Roof went into that black church in Charleston, who gave him love, yeah you got it, black women. if black people did not show the grace they have in the face absolute sometimes overt racism they have faced there would be black terror cells in the US. The fact that black people serve in the military for a country that on the whole does not love them speaks volumes.

WTF is Reverse Racial Discrimination? Racial Discrimination is Racial Discrimination whether its is black to white or white to black.

There is a lot of things I agree with you RTT, but this you can kiss it on this one.



Michael
I was trying to find the video again, it came up randomly and was being presented by a black guy who explained alot more reasons why it would fail than I did.

I'm comparing to Sth Africa and Zimbabwe due to their more prominent white rule. Tanzania and as far as I know Botswana have less of this and their local "white" communities are generally not part of the govt system for a long time. Also like Kenya. I've been to Tanzania, its not all smooth sailing.

However experience seems to be as soon as a majority discriminated group get power, they turn the tables. I think few would argue that should this proposal ever succeed, it will not be bench mark for mixed race co-habitation.

Also why Texas? Something to do with oil? Could also lead to an issue with the large agriculture sector as traditionally in the USA, black Americans have very low representation into the farming sector.  

As for which sub group is more or less racist in the USA, I really don't care, its entrenched on both sides of the fence and I don't see a solution occurring any time soon but I know it needs to come from both sides and this starts with acknowledging some of the issues raised by the likes Morgan Freeman and other leading black celebrities who have stating many of the problems are brought on themselves. For example the BLM protests, much of the violence is black on black.

Back to that video of the black female lady looking to get into congress or senate for Baltimore. Some of her comments
- Democrat run cities have more poverty for blacks. A real chicken and the egg scenario. Are blacks poor because they are living in Democrat cities or are just poor blacks more likely to vote Democrat? I think most know its probably the later.

- Violence to blacks was very high, she didn't say who was causing it. I don't know the answer but a guess wouldn't be hard to get wrong.

At the end of the day it was just a video by some wacko proposing something that will never fly, but my comment was that should it happen it would more than likely be prone to economic/social disaster because of deep rooted issues in the US black community. As per discussion with another poster here a few weeks back and along the lines of Morgan Freeman, there are deep social issues in part of the black community in the USA that needs to be resolved by the black community, not just the racist whites.
RTT_Rules
Sorry RTT but as regards to what is happening in the US and BLM you have totally missed the point

As for which sub group is more or less racist in the USA, I really don't care, its entrenched on both sides of the fence and I don't see a solution occurring any time soon but I know it needs to come from both sides

Of course you don't. And again you are missing the point. No one is saying that black people aren't racist towards whites, but Systemic Racism affects black people far more than it affects white people. White privilege is a very real thing in the US. Riddle me this. A white girl who names her self GunGirl, walks through a college campus with an AK47 sling over her shoulder, nothing. a beautiful black sister falls asleep in the common room studying, the police is called. And look what happens to black men if they so much as have a water pistol or a toy gun in their possession? Yeah they wind up dead. Just ask the families of Tamir Rice (who was just 12) and John Crawford III.

As regards to the Police even. A black officer kills a white Australian Woman Justine Damond, He gets 12 Years and her family a $3 Million settlement. A Latino officer kills a black man, Philando Castille in front of his girl friend and daughter, officer gets acquitted and the family gets a in total $900,000 settlement. That is just two examples, please do not argue to me that blacks and whites are treated equally in the US.

Black people have shown enough grace and more than enough restraint. When that racist muppet Dylan Roof went into that black church in Charleston, who shown him grace and love, yeah you got it, black women. Lets see what happens when a black man or woman goes into a mainly white church?

Really, so black people are responsible for the entrenched and systemic racism metered out on them. Just run that by me again? Black on Black crime is the biggest red herring thrown out there. Violent crime mainly happens within communities. According to the US Department of Justice statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites. Asians crime is mostly to other Asians and the Indigenous population to other indigenous population. Sorry but claiming that black on black crime is the reason for systemic racism in the US, is frankly bull$hit salad.

Contrary to you belief RTT, not all black men commit crimes, there are a lot of successful well educated black people in the US, not least because of the HBCU system that allowed black people to have a higher education because they were denied entry into existing Universities. Yes there is a problem with black especially men in the Inner Cities, totally acknowledge that and they need to be addressed by the black community, I have said that ad nauseum. The problems happen in every inner cities on this planet.

BLM is not protesting about the thugs who get locked up, RTT. They are protesting because of the killing of innocent people. Breonna Taylor, Armaud Arberry, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Eric Garner, Trayvon Martin, John Crawford III, Philando Castille, I can go on and on.

I hope RTT, you are not one of those people who like black people in small doses. I have encountered so many people like that in the UK. You know the ones. Fine if they just shut up and do as their are told, but as soon as we get an education, compete for good jobs, complain about discrimination, some lose their effing minds. By the way it is a Yes or No question.

To close, there are some people in this country, who absolutely get cross and lose their mind for the simple acknowlegement of Traditional Indigenous owners, but expect black people in the US to accept systemic racism, with the end result of the killing of innocent people. I have already said that it was a stupid idea, so going about Texas is moot to me.

Michael
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
How do you come to that conclusion?
Because I've been following her stellar career as a politician for quite a while and I've never once heard her speak about the scourge of domestic violence, child abuse or alcohol in the communities. And she lives in Northcote, which is pretty much as far away from the real problems of Aboriginal Australia as you can possibly get.

But then again I'm not a privileged lawyer born into the right family so what do I know?
Northcote is pretty close to Fitzroy, innit? Are you totally ignorant of that suburbs demographic? Haven't you previously claimed to be ex-Melbourne? What learnings did you take with you when you left?

Now you seem more phony to me than ever.
Oh please, you really think the high rise is what that suburb is now-days? You can't win an argument so you resort to personal abuse.
Well, no-one can ever win an argument against you, can they Don? Rolling Eyes
I can respect people who at least construct a valid argument against my point of view, Dirty Ballast. Whereas you nearly always resort to name-calling.
don_dunstan
Hang on a minute - you labeling people as stupid (I imagine because they don't agree with you), for example, is something you often do with gay abandon. And the last thing I'm after here is your respect.

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