Daniel Andrews Imploding Act

 
  SAR520SMBH Junior Train Controller

Valvegear and Israilfan, your common sense is wasted on don.

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Valvegear, you're just terrified of the virus like Dictator Dan wants you to be. That's all.
"don_dunstan"
If that's what he wants, he's out of luck.  Just give me one compelling reason why he'd want me to be terrified.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.

Does anyone seriously think that suicides due to Covid restrictions are going to be even close to the number of Covid deaths worldwide? I think we should just ponder that for a moment before we credit people like George Donikian and Pete Evans with honorary doctorates in statistics and congratulating them on having more brain cells than they actually do.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Number one - Dan Andrews has lied repeatedly to make the case for Stage Four. He initially said that one quarter of the people who were supposed to be self-isolating at home were not there when the police called. Then it turns out weeks after that announcement that in fact less than one percent of those people weren't at home when the police called.

He's also telling lies about the actual death toll - people who happen to die while they have COVID are counted as "COVID deaths" when in fact they're people who are either very geriatric or already extremely sick from some other illness. This is done in order to deliberately frighten people into doing what they want.

He lied. He lied to justify the harsh terms of the lock-down. Doesen't that trouble you in the least?
No; simply because I don't believe you. I do believe people like the Chief Health Officer and other medical specialists who are advising Andrews.

In the second place, the response of the police is not proportional to offense. You're accusing people of putting other lives at risk when the evidence that they're doing that simply isn't there, not when they're just walking down the street. How is people out after 'curfew' in Dandenong putting the lives of other people at risk - and why does that peaceful protest require a heavy-handed police response with capsicum spray and body-slamming people to the ground?
First; these people don't care about putting other lives at risk by failing to comply with all of the required precautions; not just the curfew. Second; yes; the news showed a person being slammed down. The news showed you the truth and nothing but the truth, but it did not show you the whole truth. That person was placed under arrest for other charges. I have this from a reliable eye witness who lives near me, and was at the Dandenong affair in the course of duty. I am not going to name or identify my informant in any way, nor will I disclose the charges. I repeat what I said earlier; it was not a "peaceful protest".
Valvegear, you're just terrified of the virus like Dictator Dan wants you to be. That's all.
Don, the reason why people can't "get on with their lives", as you put it, is because when there is a massive outbreak in community transmission, say in the 700's-800's, this can get into aged care homes very easily, so that is why lockdown measures are taken, it has been shown in other parts of the world to be the case as well. just to add I am not saying lockdown every time you get a small spike in cases, that would be ridiculous, but if you get above 200 for a few days in a row, of course you have to do something.
lsrailfan
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.

Does anyone seriously think that suicides due to Covid restrictions are going to be even close to the number of Covid deaths worldwide? I think we should just ponder that for a moment before we credit people like George Donikian and Pete Evans with honorary doctorates in statistics and congratulating them on having more brain cells than they actually do.
Aaron
Those in the Fright wing media are screaming that from the rooftops!
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Number one - Dan Andrews has lied repeatedly to make the case for Stage Four. He initially said that one quarter of the people who were supposed to be self-isolating at home were not there when the police called. Then it turns out weeks after that announcement that in fact less than one percent of those people weren't at home when the police called.

He's also telling lies about the actual death toll - people who happen to die while they have COVID are counted as "COVID deaths" when in fact they're people who are either very geriatric or already extremely sick from some other illness. This is done in order to deliberately frighten people into doing what they want.

He lied. He lied to justify the harsh terms of the lock-down. Doesen't that trouble you in the least?
No; simply because I don't believe you. I do believe people like the Chief Health Officer and other medical specialists who are advising Andrews.

In the second place, the response of the police is not proportional to offense. You're accusing people of putting other lives at risk when the evidence that they're doing that simply isn't there, not when they're just walking down the street. How is people out after 'curfew' in Dandenong putting the lives of other people at risk - and why does that peaceful protest require a heavy-handed police response with capsicum spray and body-slamming people to the ground?
First; these people don't care about putting other lives at risk by failing to comply with all of the required precautions; not just the curfew. Second; yes; the news showed a person being slammed down. The news showed you the truth and nothing but the truth, but it did not show you the whole truth. That person was placed under arrest for other charges. I have this from a reliable eye witness who lives near me, and was at the Dandenong affair in the course of duty. I am not going to name or identify my informant in any way, nor will I disclose the charges. I repeat what I said earlier; it was not a "peaceful protest".
Valvegear, you're just terrified of the virus like Dictator Dan wants you to be. That's all.
Don, the reason why people can't "get on with their lives", as you put it, is because when there is a massive outbreak in community transmission, say in the 700's-800's, this can get into aged care homes very easily, so that is why lockdown measures are taken, it has been shown in other parts of the world to be the case as well. just to add I am not saying lockdown every time you get a small spike in cases, that would be ridiculous, but if you get above 200 for a few days in a row, of course you have to do something.
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
don_dunstan
You can't do that if you have a massive outbreak of it, you have to do a lockdown if the numbers get too much, that's it!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
He's also telling lies about the actual death toll - people who happen to die while they have COVID are counted as "COVID deaths" when in fact they're people who are either very geriatric or already extremely sick from some other illness. This is done in order to deliberately frighten people into doing what they want.
don_dunstan
No, as far as I can see they're telling the truth on the statistics on hand. We count events based on what caused the event. In this case deaths are counted by what caused the death.

Medical examiners do not look at the body of a person riddled with cancer and a self inflicted gun shot to the head and rule 'cancer' as cause of death, nor do they look at someone who has been sick with say Crohn's disease their whole life and rule their death due to that instead of the un-diagnosed cancer in their pancreas. On occasion it will be discovered that a person found deceased, in their car which just happens to be extremely damaged and close to, or still in contact with a large tree died due to a vehicle accident, further investigation will discover evidence of serious myocardial infarction, or embolism and that death will be removed from road toll statistics.

This is honestly happening with COVID deaths too, on occasion you will see cases (or deaths) 'reclassified' meaning on further inspection it is decided that COVID was not the primary cause (or maybe that it was if COVID was originally not diagnosed).

The test for whether COVID is regarded as causation for the death is this: regardless of preexisting illness if COVID was not present in this person would they still be alive today? Yes, 'COVID death'. No, 'insert other ailment here'.

You will not find a person infected with COVID being hit by a car crossing the street whilst absconding from isolation as being listed as a COVID death, you will find them however contributing to the road death 'toll'.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.

Does anyone seriously think that suicides due to Covid restrictions are going to be even close to the number of Covid deaths worldwide? I think we should just ponder that for a moment before we credit people like George Donikian and Pete Evans with honorary doctorates in statistics and congratulating them on having more brain cells than they actually do.
Those in the Fright wing media are screaming that from the rooftops!
lsrailfan
I am not so sure that that is true either. Until I read it in that post I had only seen it mentioned once on TV/in the news, I do not remember which. I don't think much of the media has run with it as a fact at all, let alone screamed it from a rooftop.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.

Does anyone seriously think that suicides due to Covid restrictions are going to be even close to the number of Covid deaths worldwide? I think we should just ponder that for a moment before we credit people like George Donikian and Pete Evans with honorary doctorates in statistics and congratulating them on having more brain cells than they actually do.
Those in the Fright wing media are screaming that from the rooftops!
I am not so sure that that is true either. Until I read it in that post I had only seen it mentioned once on TV/in the news, I do not remember which. I don't think much of the media has run with it as a fact at all, let alone screamed it from a rooftop.
Aaron
I listen to 2GB a lot, there's a lady called Rita Panahi?? from Sky News, she is one that thinks there will be a heck of a lot of suicides due to Covid, she appears as a guest with John Stanley on weeknights.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.

Does anyone seriously think that suicides due to Covid restrictions are going to be even close to the number of Covid deaths worldwide? I think we should just ponder that for a moment before we credit people like George Donikian and Pete Evans with honorary doctorates in statistics and congratulating them on having more brain cells than they actually do.
Those in the Fright wing media are screaming that from the rooftops!
I am not so sure that that is true either. Until I read it in that post I had only seen it mentioned once on TV/in the news, I do not remember which. I don't think much of the media has run with it as a fact at all, let alone screamed it from a rooftop.
I listen to 2GB a lot, there's a lady called Rita Panahi?? from Sky News, she is one that thinks there will be a heck of a lot of suicides due to Covid, she appears as a guest with John Stanley on weeknights.
lsrailfan
I spend no more time in Sydney than I have to, but even so, if you live in Sydney and you despise that section of the media so much why would you give them the listenership?
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.

Does anyone seriously think that suicides due to Covid restrictions are going to be even close to the number of Covid deaths worldwide? I think we should just ponder that for a moment before we credit people like George Donikian and Pete Evans with honorary doctorates in statistics and congratulating them on having more brain cells than they actually do.
Those in the Fright wing media are screaming that from the rooftops!
I am not so sure that that is true either. Until I read it in that post I had only seen it mentioned once on TV/in the news, I do not remember which. I don't think much of the media has run with it as a fact at all, let alone screamed it from a rooftop.
I listen to 2GB a lot, there's a lady called Rita Panahi?? from Sky News, she is one that thinks there will be a heck of a lot of suicides due to Covid, she appears as a guest with John Stanley on weeknights.
I spend no more time in Sydney than I have to, but even so, if you live in Sydney and you despise that section of the media so much why would you give them the listenership?
Aaron
I ain't complaining, just saying how it is...
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.
"Aaron"
The Victorian coroner, John Cain, released a statement comparing suicides from 1 January to 26 August 2019 and 2020. There were actually two fewer in 2020 than in 2019.
  brownhillboy Train Controller

Belt and Road deal is in strife:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-26/government-boosts-powers-to-cancel-foreign-agreements/12599000

The Pm is going to tear it up.

Also hear the Feds are looking to tear up the Darwin Port lease.
NSWGR8022
This is the best political news this year. Nearly every other politician in Australia, no matter which side they are on, know that the Chinese Communist Party has seen Andrews as a political fool and are using him as a pawn to further its own agenda. So it's goodbye to Chairman Dan, and back to plain old Dan the Dictator!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.
The Victorian coroner, John Cain, released a statement comparing suicides from 1 January to 26 August 2019 and 2020. There were actually two fewer in 2020 than in 2019.
Valvegear
So the null hypothesis is not excluded - that’s enough for me. Covid restrictions aren’t increasing suicide rates.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Belt and Road deal is in strife:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-26/government-boosts-powers-to-cancel-foreign-agreements/12599000

The Pm is going to tear it up.

Also hear the Feds are looking to tear up the Darwin Port lease.
This is the best political news this year. Nearly every other politician in Australia, no matter which side they are on, know that the Chinese Communist Party has seen Andrews as a political fool and are using him as a pawn to further its own agenda. So it's goodbye to Chairman Dan, and back to plain old Dan the Dictator!
brownhillboy
I hope that Morrison waits a year or two.

All the other states would love to gain a share of the funds released by a couple of year's worth of striking out federal infrastructure spending in Victoria and making a note to get BRI to pay for it instead.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Victoria is also the odd one out with the "state of emergency" powers, by virtue of having actual limits on how long it can go. Other states can go indefinitely. We've also had the state of emergency enacted since the bushfires.
speedemon08
Incorrect.

Emergency Declarations in SA always have an end date, and in the case of COVID-19 have been limited to 28 day periods before automatic expiry if the Governor does not sign an extension. See the latest one here.

The SA government would not even think about making a declaration lasting 18 months, as they would lose a disallowance motion in the upper house.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Not a 99.9 non deadly disease at all, I think it's more like 97-98% deadly, that's just what the WHO will tell you, if you look at the deaths rate on the WORLDOMETER website, current deaths is 836,517, (probably many more that we don't know about), that is equating to a 5% mortality figure at the moment.
lsrailfan
And outside of the 5% who die directly, many more will have permanent damage to the vascular system - including many of those classed as having had asymptomatic cases because their symptoms were bad enough to require hospitalisation.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
You can't do that if you have a massive outbreak of it, you have to do a lockdown if the numbers get too much, that's it!
lsrailfan
There's how many vulnerable people in nursing homes?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Pretty sure I saw Vic medicos reporting on the supposed suicides due to Covid restrictions saying ‘yeah, nah, that has not happened’ I suspect the numbers of suicides are not being counted because suicides due to Covid are not much of a thing.
The Victorian coroner, John Cain, released a statement comparing suicides from 1 January to 26 August 2019 and 2020. There were actually two fewer in 2020 than in 2019.
So the null hypothesis is not excluded - that’s enough for me. Covid restrictions aren’t increasing suicide rates.
Aaron
Yet.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
You can't do that if you have a massive outbreak of it, you have to do a lockdown if the numbers get too much, that's it!
There's how many vulnerable people in nursing homes?
don_dunstan
That's how many people are in the general community, if you have a massive outbreak in the general community, it is highly likely that it will spread to vulnerable people in aged care homes. by the way, if you don't lock down when you have a big outbreak, you will do more damage to the economy, by having hospitals overrun and ICU beds filling up. just my opinion by the way.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
You can't do that if you have a massive outbreak of it, you have to do a lockdown if the numbers get too much, that's it!
There's how many vulnerable people in nursing homes?
That's how many people are in the general community, if you have a massive outbreak in the general community, it is highly likely that it will spread to vulnerable people in aged care homes. by the way, if you don't lock down when you have a big outbreak, you will do more damage to the economy, by having hospitals overrun and ICU beds filling up.
lsrailfan
Is the cost of 'filling' ICU more or less than the cost of stopping private enterprise?
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
You can't do that if you have a massive outbreak of it, you have to do a lockdown if the numbers get too much, that's it!
There's how many vulnerable people in nursing homes?
That's how many people are in the general community, if you have a massive outbreak in the general community, it is highly likely that it will spread to vulnerable people in aged care homes. by the way, if you don't lock down when you have a big outbreak, you will do more damage to the economy, by having hospitals overrun and ICU beds filling up.
Is the cost of 'filling' ICU more or less than the cost of stopping private enterprise?
don_dunstan
That all depends on how big the outbreak is, if you were to go down the herd immunity route, that so many people want to go down, then it would be a gigantic cost to the economy.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bored at home
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
You can't do that if you have a massive outbreak of it, you have to do a lockdown if the numbers get too much, that's it!
There's how many vulnerable people in nursing homes?
don_dunstan
Since you think oldies are such a small inconvenience to be shut away.

For 2017/2018
1.2 MILLION Australians receive Aged Care Services.
270,000 of them are in Residential care.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/aged-care
That is not the total of all over 65. Just those that are vulnerable and need support.

407 deaths in Aged care @ yesterday. And they were locked away from family to suffer their last days alone.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Herd immunity at the moment is a dangerous target. For starters we are not sure that acquired antibodies remain, secondly, getting 90+% of the population ‘infected’ to get to herd immunity levels will cripple the economy, AND if it doesn’t, thirdly, the residual respiratory damage induced into those infected WILL cripple the economy. Either via their reduced capacity for work, or through costs of future treatments.

Sweden is no poster child to follow, eventually they may be found have done the right thing, but for the moment evidence is suggesting they’re not handling it by best practice.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
So protect the people who are most likely to die from the virus instead of destroying business and commerce.
You can't do that if you have a massive outbreak of it, you have to do a lockdown if the numbers get too much, that's it!
There's how many vulnerable people in nursing homes?
That's how many people are in the general community, if you have a massive outbreak in the general community, it is highly likely that it will spread to vulnerable people in aged care homes. by the way, if you don't lock down when you have a big outbreak, you will do more damage to the economy, by having hospitals overrun and ICU beds filling up.
Is the cost of 'filling' ICU more or less than the cost of stopping private enterprise?
That all depends on how big the outbreak is, if you were to go down the herd immunity route, that so many people want to go down, then it would be a gigantic cost to the economy.
lsrailfan
My concern is that this thing will never, ever go away. In which case all the stuff they're doing now will be for nothing. Nought. Zip. If you can't actually control it then you either have to keep living this way forever or develop an effective and safe vaccine and neither of those things are realistic at the moment.

So why are are they doing this?

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