The corona virus COVID-19

 
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Ignoring the batsh1t crazy idiot fringe which sees the whole pandemic as some form of conspiracy, do otherwise sane protesters want to reduce Covid-19 to manageable proportions or not? That's the bottom line, and I am fed to the teeth with people bitching about their alleged freedoms. Stage 4 is driving me nuts, but I prefer that rather than a dose of a killer virus.

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The lockdown will hopefully remind people on how to behave once its over.

Compared to Europe, most people in Melbourne have it easy as they are in their own houses, not apartments, there is also some freedom of movement on the streets. In some parts of Europe and places like Dubai we were not even allowed to walk the dog. Shopping limited to one person once every 3 days provided you applied on line for a permit in advance.

So basically, enjoy the couch and Netflix's for another few weeks.

...and of course, TASER any stupid protesters. Time and Place people!

Regards
Shane
RTT_Rules
Where is the 'unhelpful' button on this RP thing?

So, what, I should get in touch with the people in my circle who are doing it tough and whose mental health we are worried about and trying to monitor and say "buck up camper, you have nothing to worry about, people in Dubai are doing it tougher than you mate". I'm sure that will cure all that ails them.......

Oh and you obviously haven't been to Melbourne for a long, long time. Many parts of Melbourne are wall to wall apartment buildings these days. They even have highrises in the suburbs and everything, it is so cosmopolitan!!!!!!!
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Ignoring the batsh1t crazy idiot fringe which sees the whole pandemic as some form of conspiracy, do otherwise sane protesters want to reduce Covid-19 to manageable proportions or not? That's the bottom line, and I am fed to the teeth with people bitching about their alleged freedoms. Stage 4 is driving me nuts, but I prefer that rather than a dose of a killer virus.
Valvegear
Not all of us agree that the lockdown is proportional to the threat of the virus, especially when many countries are managing much, much higher caseloads successfully with far more liberal restrictions and the vast bulk of infected people are completely unaffected by the virus.

The original intent of the lockdown was to flatten the curve so the ICUs wouldn't be overloaded, which they are not, but now it is clear we are staying in this until Victroria is inline with other states. This is not a flatten-the-curve strategy...its about pushing it back down to effectively zero.

Australia has become 100% single minded about beating the virus, the rest of the world is learning to live with it...some better than others. At this point, to be honest I don't care anymore...this year is a write off.

At a more ideological level, I am deeply concerned about this precedent: I just am not comfortable with the idea that a Government can confine me to my house because it believes it knows more about my safety and needs than I do...but hey thats another discussion.

Frankly, now we are this deep into it we may as well just stay the course and start from scratch in the new year...but I would be getting pretty concerned if we are still in effective Stage 4 lockdown past the three month mark.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Yes the restrictions are not as harsh in Melbourne, but it seems we now have an effective 6 week extension. That is three months all up. I am not sure how many other jurisdictions have done a lockdown for this long.

I think there are going to be more protests popping up in the coming weeks.
Mr. Lane
Italy went from 9/March to 18/May, not sure on others.

Yes 3mths is along time, hopefully a strong reminder to behave going forward as the outbreak in Vic this time is 3 x a worse as the whole country the first time.

I find it interesting in how people's mindset and attitude are changing through this. We have close friends (teachers) who left Dubai to return to Mel 2 years back. At the start of all this, Dan was very much the man, but complained why teachers should be at risk when they didn't close the schools.

Now in their FB post today and following similar comments from last few weeks, Dan is a #$@##$ and why cannot older kids return to school......

For me at the moment I'm stuck between we need to be safe and look after certain people, but the economy cannot take much more of these lockdowns and there are other ways but the govt cannot or will not go down that path and this includes the use of mandatory CV testing in certain sectors including teachers, medical sector etc and also for those wanting to cross state borders and return to Australia.  

Unfortunately, interesting times.

Disclaimer on my part.
My 103 year old grandmother died in Melbourne a few weeks back, not of CV-19, just end of a very long and healthy life. But if she had got it this year it would likely have killed her as would almost any other bug and she was living with my Aunt until the last few days. My dad and his other sister couldn't travel to say goodbye due to border, mind you bother are mid to late 70's so they are also a risk to the virus. As far as I know, her body was cremated as per her wishes, but there cannot be a final send off and spreading of her ashes with that of my Grandfather's ashes in Sydney's Lane Cove National Park for which they lived next to for 70 years until the Vic border has been opened, which looks like Oct. I myself cannot attend as its impossible to re-enter Australia with hotel quarantine until like Jan 2021.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Ignoring the batsh1t crazy idiot fringe which sees the whole pandemic as some form of conspiracy, do otherwise sane protesters want to reduce Covid-19 to manageable proportions or not? That's the bottom line, and I am fed to the teeth with people bitching about their alleged freedoms. Stage 4 is driving me nuts, but I prefer that rather than a dose of a killer virus.
Valvegear
Yet we allow people the "freedom" to refuse to be interviewed by contact tracers when they test positive! I was absolutely astounded by that little tidbit from both the premier and the CHO during this morning's presser. Surely under the extended powers that everyone has been talking about they should be able to force people to provide contact and movement information.

So much of what has gone on and continues to go on during the pandemic makes no sense to me and this just adds to my confusion about the mixed messaging we are getting. The government can force us to stay home under threat of arrest and detention* but someone who has this "wicked" virus has the freedom to just stick 2 fingers up to the authorities and not help out?

These people should be detained for a minimum of 14 days and longer if they refuse to co-operate. We saw the example in Colac this week of 1 case brought up from Melbourne morphing into a 24 person cluster, if the virus is that dangerous then there should be no option to say no.

* note I have never had any intention of protesting, i think it is pointless
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I just am not comfortable with the idea that a Government can confine me to my house because it believes it knows more about my safety and needs than I do...but hey thats another discussion.
"Mr. Lane"
The government is advised by people who know more about epidemics than you and I do, and please, forget the idea that its your safety and needs that are of concern. Today, you don't have Covid-19; tomorrow you go out into a group of people and hey presto!  . . . now you do have it. Spreading is the concern.
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

TASER TASER TASER
Said it 3 times got it right
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Ignoring the batsh1t crazy idiot fringe which sees the whole pandemic as some form of conspiracy, do otherwise sane protesters want to reduce Covid-19 to manageable proportions or not? That's the bottom line, and I am fed to the teeth with people bitching about their alleged freedoms. Stage 4 is driving me nuts, but I prefer that rather than a dose of a killer virus.
Not all of us agree that the lockdown is proportional to the threat of the virus, especially when many countries are managing much, much higher caseloads successfully with far more liberal restrictions and the vast bulk of infected people are completely unaffected by the virus.

The original intent of the lockdown was to flatten the curve so the ICUs wouldn't be overloaded, which they are not, but now it is clear we are staying in this until Victroria is inline with other states. This is not a flatten-the-curve strategy...its about pushing it back down to effectively zero.

Australia has become 100% single minded about beating the virus, the rest of the world is learning to live with it...some better than others. At this point, to be honest I don't care anymore...this year is a write off.

At a more ideological level, I am deeply concerned about this precedent: I just am not comfortable with the idea that a Government can confine me to my house because it believes it knows more about my safety and needs than I do...but hey thats another discussion.

Frankly, now we are this deep into it we may as well just stay the course and start from scratch in the new year...but I would be getting pretty concerned if we are still in effective Stage 4 lockdown past the three month mark.
Mr. Lane
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this virus may well be with us, and the rest of the world for 2021 as well, maybe longer until a vaccine or some other cure is found,

In regards of how learning to live with it, I have said this a few times, but NSW is doing a superb job in that regard, just say if a student tests positive for the virus up here, the school in question shuts for deep cleaning for 1 or 2 days, students return to remote learning, then they are back to "normal" after that. the same with Clubs/Restaurants etc, same thing, Victoria shuld be aiming to try and do the same.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Ignoring the batsh1t crazy idiot fringe which sees the whole pandemic as some form of conspiracy, do otherwise sane protesters want to reduce Covid-19 to manageable proportions or not? That's the bottom line, and I am fed to the teeth with people bitching about their alleged freedoms. Stage 4 is driving me nuts, but I prefer that rather than a dose of a killer virus.
Yet we allow people the "freedom" to refuse to be interviewed by contact tracers when they test positive! I was absolutely astounded by that little tidbit from both the premier and the CHO during this morning's presser. Surely under the extended powers that everyone has been talking about they should be able to force people to provide contact and movement information.

So much of what has gone on and continues to go on during the pandemic makes no sense to me and this just adds to my confusion about the mixed messaging we are getting. The government can force us to stay home under threat of arrest and detention* but someone who has this "wicked" virus has the freedom to just stick 2 fingers up to the authorities and not help out?

These people should be detained for a minimum of 14 days and longer if they refuse to co-operate. We saw the example in Colac this week of 1 case brought up from Melbourne morphing into a 24 person cluster, if the virus is that dangerous then there should be no option to say no.

* note I have never had any intention of protesting, i think it is pointless
BrentonGolding
Yep, welcome to democracy, meanwhile the countries with authoritarian type govt's are walking all over us in wiping out the virus or at least stating they are.
These are the rules, X, Y, Z... you follow or you go to jail/fine/loss of job .......... and voila, no virus.

This is the reason I can seem some glimmer of light in the conspiracy theorists theory that China made the virus, although I very much doubt it as they rely on trading with the democracy's of the world for their manufacturing sector exports and/or oil!

Ironically if the Australian govt's had more power, we may right now have more freedom's as they could deal more directly with the people who are part of the problem, rather than throw the whole community into the same bucket.

* note, very true.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
In regards of how learning to live with it, I have said this a few times, but NSW is doing a superb job in that regard, just say if a student tests positive for the virus up here, the school in question shuts for deep cleaning for 1 or 2 days, students return to remote learning, then they are back to "normal" after that. the same with Clubs/Restaurants etc, same thing, Victoria shuld be aiming to try and do the same.
"israilfan"
As far as I'm aware, that is exactly what we're aiming for. Victoria currently does not stand comparison with any other State; we have far more daily new cases and this number has to fall.
  Black Board Station Staff

Australian national anthem needs a rework, starting with:

Australians few of us rejoice
For we aren't COVID free
We've golden soil yet debt for all
Our homes are girt by disease ..........................
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Reading the roadmap, most Melbournians won't be able to travel beyond 5km from their home until after Oct 26. That's pretty rough.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Yep, welcome to democracy, meanwhile the countries with authoritarian type govt's are walking all over us in wiping out the virus or at least stating they are.
These are the rules, X, Y, Z... you follow or you go to jail/fine/loss of job .......... and voila, no virus.

Ironically if the Australian govt's had more power, we may right now have more freedom's as they could deal more directly with the people who are part of the problem, rather than throw the whole community into the same bucket.

* note, very true.
RTT_Rules
But there's the rub. We have a mix of 50% coercion and 50% democracy.

Our democratic government can force Melbournians to stay at home and they are arresting people who defy the orders.

Yet they won't force the people who actually have the virus to comply with requests for information, to stay at home, to self isolate etc etc etc.

So what Victoria has is the worst of both worlds. We can't get on top of cases because people who have the virus don't follow the rules and aren't punished for it meanwhile all of us suffer the consequences in terms of loss of liberty, loss of jobs, loss of businesses etc etc.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The death toll from HIV was way bigger than the death toll from COVID in the last twelve months but most of those people were poor Africans so we don't bother talking about them. I blame the World Health Organisation for this over-reaction - hardly anyone is dying from COVID but they're shutting down the entire economy for it (in Victoria at least). What a load of rubbish.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Reading the roadmap, most Melbournians won't be able to travel beyond 5km from their home until after Oct 26. That's pretty rough.
Carnot
Yep. And no Hospo (takeaway excepted obviously), Retail or Real Estate allowed to re-open till then either, nor shopping with your partner and many other things. That is 7 weeks away which will make it 12 weeks from the date Stage 4 came in.

And unlike some of the changes for Regional Vic all of Melbourne's step changes are "the later of" case number threshold or date which means that even if cases fall below the threshold earlier no change happens until the designated date.

It's only been a few hours and I am already hearing about more people preparing to bail out of Melbourne and head North.

Pretty rough indeed.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Reading the roadmap, most Melbournians won't be able to travel beyond 5km from their home until after Oct 26. That's pretty rough.
Yep. And no Hospo (takeaway excepted obviously), Retail or Real Estate allowed to re-open till then either, nor shopping with your partner and many other things. That is 7 weeks away which will make it 12 weeks from the date Stage 4 came in.

And unlike some of the changes for Regional Vic all of Melbourne's step changes are "the later of" case number threshold or date which means that even if cases fall below the threshold earlier no change happens until the designated date.

It's only been a few hours and I am already hearing about more people preparing to bail out of Melbourne and head North.

Pretty rough indeed.
BrentonGolding
Things are almost back to normal today; we had lunch at a cafe today, did a few op shops, then the supermarket and finally gym (whew!). I feel really sorry for anyone living in the police state formerly known as Victoria.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
The death toll from HIV was way bigger than the death toll from COVID in the last twelve months but most of those people were poor Africans so we don't bother talking about them. I blame the World Health Organisation for this over-reaction - hardly anyone is dying from COVID but they're shutting down the entire economy for it (in Victoria at least). What a load of rubbish.
don_dunstan
"Hardly anyone is dying from COVID", what a load of nonsense!! so far the deaths stand at 884,301, (possibly many more than that as well, and that has been with restrictions in place in some countries,) so we are looking at well over 1 Million people that could have been dead already, had Govts not taken what they had taken, of course many people have died from a lot of things which are higher than COVID- Cancer/smoking/heart disease, I feel that that type of argument is being used in weakening for what we are doing now in the fight against COVID-19.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The death toll from HIV was way bigger than the death toll from COVID in the last twelve months but most of those people were poor Africans so we don't bother talking about them. I blame the World Health Organisation for this over-reaction - hardly anyone is dying from COVID but they're shutting down the entire economy for it (in Victoria at least). What a load of rubbish.
"don_dunstan"



HIV stats from WHO,
-  in 40 years the number who have ever been infected with HIV is 76m
- 38m living with it today and its no longer the death sentence it once was.
- 33m dead
- 1.7m new cases of HIV in 2019
- ~700,000 dead from HIV related in 2019.

CV is now 9mths old
- Total infected is 26m
- Total dead almost 0.9m (~5% death rate)
- 7m active.

HIVs is pretty cut and dry, don't exchange body fluid's you are safe, something most people (when given the choice) can easily control. Basically it generally didn't enter retirement homes or beds of people who have other medical issues once blood screening was in place and how long did it take to make that happen?

CV, would appear just sitting on the same plane without a mask is good enough to cause community transmission.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

I think Melbourne should be renamed East Berlin. A friend told me he was out for a walk and got followed by a police drone.

The conditions for relaxation of rules after Oct 26 are very tough.  I suspect the roadmap will need to be changed before too long.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
At a more ideological level, I am deeply concerned about this precedent: I just am not comfortable with the idea that a Government can confine me to my house because it believes it knows more about my safety and needs than I do...but hey thats another discussion.
Mr. Lane
Because it's all about you isn't it? This is for the safety and wellbeing of all Australians, not just you!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The death toll from HIV was way bigger than the death toll from COVID in the last twelve months but most of those people were poor Africans so we don't bother talking about them. I blame the World Health Organisation for this over-reaction - hardly anyone is dying from COVID but they're shutting down the entire economy for it (in Victoria at least). What a load of rubbish.
"Hardly anyone is dying from COVID", what a load of nonsense!! so far the deaths stand at 884,301, (possibly many more than that as well, and that has been with restrictions in place in some countries,) so we are looking at well over 1 Million people that could have been dead already, had Govts not taken what they had taken, of course many people have died from a lot of things which are higher than COVID- Cancer/smoking/heart disease, I feel that that type of argument kind of used in the weakening for what we are doing now in the fight against COVID-19.
lsrailfan
I stand by what I said - nobody is taking any notice of HIV but its actually killing more people than COVID.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
The death toll from HIV was way bigger than the death toll from COVID in the last twelve months but most of those people were poor Africans so we don't bother talking about them. I blame the World Health Organisation for this over-reaction - hardly anyone is dying from COVID but they're shutting down the entire economy for it (in Victoria at least). What a load of rubbish.
"Hardly anyone is dying from COVID", what a load of nonsense!! so far the deaths stand at 884,301, (possibly many more than that as well, and that has been with restrictions in place in some countries,) so we are looking at well over 1 Million people that could have been dead already, had Govts not taken what they had taken, of course many people have died from a lot of things which are higher than COVID- Cancer/smoking/heart disease, I feel that that type of argument kind of used in the weakening for what we are doing now in the fight against COVID-19.
I stand by what I said - nobody is taking any notice of HIV but its actually killing more people than COVID.
don_dunstan
I stand by what I said too...
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Yes the restrictions are not as harsh in Melbourne, but it seems we now have an effective 6 week extension. That is three months all up. I am not sure how many other jurisdictions have done a lockdown for this long.

I think there are going to be more protests popping up in the coming weeks.

I find it interesting in how people's mindset and attitude are changing through this. We have close friends (teachers) who left Dubai to return to Mel 2 years back. At the start of all this, Dan was very much the man, but complained why teachers should be at risk when they didn't close the schools.

Now in their FB post today and following similar comments from last few weeks, Dan is a #$@##$ and why cannot older kids return to school......
RTT_Rules
Yep, some of the most avidly pro-lockdown people I know are now the most angry...it took 5 weeks for them to back down on their convictions. One person I know as an example: five weeks ago she said "if your plan is so good, why doesn't the Premier come to the same conclusion?"  Today she messaged me "This Premier is smeg crazy. Who is advising this guy?"
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

I just am not comfortable with the idea that a Government can confine me to my house because it believes it knows more about my safety and needs than I do...but hey thats another discussion.
The government is advised by people who know more about epidemics than you and I do, and please, forget the idea that its your safety and needs that are of concern. Today, you don't have Covid-19; tomorrow you go out into a group of people and hey presto!  . . . now you do have it. Spreading is the concern.
Valvegear
You have more faith, despite their recent performances, in the Government and its army of public servants and advisors than I do.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

The death toll from HIV was way bigger than the death toll from COVID in the last twelve months but most of those people were poor Africans so we don't bother talking about them. I blame the World Health Organisation for this over-reaction - hardly anyone is dying from COVID but they're shutting down the entire economy for it (in Victoria at least). What a load of rubbish.
don_dunstan
To be fair, I don't think the WHO ever recommended lockdowns. If anything, I think Governments adopted lockdowns in an attempt to replicate the Chinese response in Wuhan.

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