The China Problem

 
  bloodied_wombat Beginner

What the HELL is going on with this thread? Since when has this page been the provenance of all these right wing nut jobs?

You know what the PROBLEM is? The problem is DICKWIT NATION OF MORONS that seems determined to trash its relationship with the country that has kept us out of a recession for THIRTY YEARS ... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!?!? And the reason why we seem to be doing it is .... barely concealed racism.

Seriously, all the people propouning all this anti-China discourse that ISN'T grounded in concern for our democratic friends in Hong Kong is a TURKEY VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS.

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  9034 Train Controller

What the HELL is going on with this thread? Since when has this page been the provenance of all these right wing nut jobs?

You know what the PROBLEM is? The problem is DICKWIT NATION OF MORONS that seems determined to trash its relationship with the country that has kept us out of a recession for THIRTY YEARS ... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!?!? And the reason why we seem to be doing it is .... barely concealed racism.

Seriously, all the people propouning all this anti-China discourse that ISN'T grounded in concern for our democratic friends in Hong Kong is a TURKEY VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS.
bloodied_wombat

PEACE IN OUR TIME.

Can not be bothered to link a reference.

Look it up yourself.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What the HELL is going on with this thread? Since when has this page been the provenance of all these right wing nut jobs?

You know what the PROBLEM is? The problem is DICKWIT NATION OF MORONS that seems determined to trash its relationship with the country that has kept us out of a recession for THIRTY YEARS ... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!?!? And the reason why we seem to be doing it is .... barely concealed racism.

Seriously, all the people propouning all this anti-China discourse that ISN'T grounded in concern for our democratic friends in Hong Kong is a TURKEY VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS.

PEACE IN OUR TIME.

Can not be bother to link a reference.

Look it up yourself.
9034
We wouldn't want to threaten our very valuable trading relationship with that lovely Mister Hitler now would we... that's worth MONEY. And all they're asking for is for us to turn a blind eye while they invade Poland... and who cares about them anyway, they're worse than those ungrateful Ugyhrs who should be thanking China for putting them into 'vocational education' camps.

Am I right?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
... and so what if a cranky communist country doesn't like us any more because we won't surrender our values for their money? Who cares? We existed hundreds of years before they did and we have rights, freedom of speech and rule of law here - unlike their tin-pot dictatorship that has only existed 70 years and makes a regular habit of genociding their own people just in case they get too uppity.

We will endure. They won't.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
A little light reading for a Monday morning

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-14/chinese-data-leak-linked-to-military-names-australians/12656668

I take my hat off to the person who was brave enough to leak that lot
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
What the HELL is going on with this thread? Since when has this page been the provenance of all these right wing nut jobs?

You know what the PROBLEM is? The problem is DICKWIT NATION OF MORONS that seems determined to trash its relationship with the country that has kept us out of a recession for THIRTY YEARS ... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!?!? And the reason why we seem to be doing it is .... barely concealed racism.

Seriously, all the people propouning all this anti-China discourse that ISN'T grounded in concern for our democratic friends in Hong Kong is a TURKEY VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS.
bloodied_wombat
This Site is Generally a Defacto Right Wing Circle Jerk. The likes of Don Will Claim otherwise and that they are 'not right wing', but there words and statements say otherwise. This Thread and the BLM threads are prime examples of this. Even the title of this thread 'The China Problem' sounds to me a bit too much like a certain Rhetoric taken up by an infamous Political Party in the 30s and 40s. And they are the ones comparing them to Hitler and Can't seem to Fathem that the United States and its allies are in decline. Pure Hysterical McCarthyism.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

A little light reading for a Monday morning

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-14/chinese-data-leak-linked-to-military-names-australians/12656668

I take my hat off to the person who was brave enough to leak that lot
BrentonGolding
Is anyone on RP on this list?

Do they realize that we can bring down governments?
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
What the HELL is going on with this thread? Since when has this page been the provenance of all these right wing nut jobs?

You know what the PROBLEM is? The problem is DICKWIT NATION OF MORONS that seems determined to trash its relationship with the country that has kept us out of a recession for THIRTY YEARS ... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!?!? And the reason why we seem to be doing it is .... barely concealed racism.

Seriously, all the people propouning all this anti-China discourse that ISN'T grounded in concern for our democratic friends in Hong Kong is a TURKEY VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS.
bloodied_wombat
Racism is NOT the reason why people are against China, people are not against the Chinese people but are against the CCP
The Australian government did the right thing, they launched an investigation on how the COVID 19 pandemic started and what went wrong, this is not racism, this is common sense- if a building collapsed you would launch an investigation
Australia did not ask for relations with China to be cut, they asked for an inquiry into China's handling of the pandemic, it is not our government's fault, it is the CCP's fault. This is like the company that built the collapsed building liquidating in the aftermath to avoid the blame

The CCP have a very long list of problems, human rights violations, censorship, organ harvesting, genocide, forced reeducation and the Hong Kong situation
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What the HELL is going on with this thread? Since when has this page been the provenance of all these right wing nut jobs?

You know what the PROBLEM is? The problem is DICKWIT NATION OF MORONS that seems determined to trash its relationship with the country that has kept us out of a recession for THIRTY YEARS ... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!?!? And the reason why we seem to be doing it is .... barely concealed racism.

Seriously, all the people propouning all this anti-China discourse that ISN'T grounded in concern for our democratic friends in Hong Kong is a TURKEY VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS.
Racism is NOT the reason why people are against China, people are not against the Chinese people but are against the CCP
The Australian government did the right thing, they launched an investigation on how the COVID 19 pandemic started and what went wrong, this is not racism, this is common sense- if a building collapsed you would launch an investigation
Australia did not ask for relations with China to be cut, they asked for an inquiry into China's handling of the pandemic, it is not our government's fault, it is the CCP's fault. This is like the company that built the collapsed building liquidating in the aftermath to avoid the blame

The CCP have a very long list of problems, human rights violations, censorship, organ harvesting, genocide, forced reeducation and the Hong Kong situation
DCook
The CCP is a really scary organization. Not only are they kicking out foreign journalists right now but they're also conducting operations on these shores to infiltrate and influence organizations like universities and private companies, as we've been seeing with the apparent stacking of the University of Queensland senate and its influence of the Vice Chancellor. This year we've seen CCP operatives active in the offices of a Labor Party politician - again - with NSW MP Shaoquett Moselmane investigated for pushing CCP propaganda.

Then we've also had Twiggy Forrest pushing the CCP agenda by telling us that any investigation into the sources of the COVID19 origin would be racist. Why? Anything to do with his iron ore sales to China being under threat? Another example of where their money has bought them friends here, friends who will try and tell us that we need to ignore the wrong-doing and focus on the money.

I don't have a problem with us having a trade and diplomatic relationship with the CCP but we need to be completely aware with what we're dealing with - an expansionist totalitarian government with aims of global domination that is diametrically opposed to liberal democracies like ours. Our system is a dangerous anathema to them and they're doing their best to undermine and wreak it - we need to be aware of that and not sugar-coat it just because of their money.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

What the HELL is going on with this thread? Since when has this page been the provenance of all these right wing nut jobs?

You know what the PROBLEM is? The problem is DICKWIT NATION OF MORONS that seems determined to trash its relationship with the country that has kept us out of a recession for THIRTY YEARS ... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!?!? And the reason why we seem to be doing it is .... barely concealed racism.

Seriously, all the people propouning all this anti-China discourse that ISN'T grounded in concern for our democratic friends in Hong Kong is a TURKEY VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS.
Racism is NOT the reason why people are against China, people are not against the Chinese people but are against the CCP
The Australian government did the right thing, they launched an investigation on how the COVID 19 pandemic started and what went wrong, this is not racism, this is common sense- if a building collapsed you would launch an investigation
Australia did not ask for relations with China to be cut, they asked for an inquiry into China's handling of the pandemic, it is not our government's fault, it is the CCP's fault. This is like the company that built the collapsed building liquidating in the aftermath to avoid the blame

The CCP have a very long list of problems, human rights violations, censorship, organ harvesting, genocide, forced reeducation and the Hong Kong situation
The CCP is a really scary organization. Not only are they kicking out foreign journalists right now but they're also conducting operations on these shores to infiltrate and influence organizations like universities and private companies, as we've been seeing with the apparent stacking of the University of Queensland senate and its influence of the Vice Chancellor. This year we've seen CCP operatives active in the offices of a Labor Party politician - again - with NSW MP Shaoquett Moselmane investigated for pushing CCP propaganda.

Then we've also had Twiggy Forrest pushing the CCP agenda by telling us that any investigation into the sources of the COVID19 origin would be racist. Why? Anything to do with his iron ore sales to China being under threat? Another example of where their money has bought them friends here, friends who will try and tell us that we need to ignore the wrong-doing and focus on the money.

I don't have a problem with us having a trade and diplomatic relationship with the CCP but we need to be completely aware with what we're dealing with - an expansionist totalitarian government with aims of global domination that is diametrically opposed to liberal democracies like ours. Our system is a dangerous anathema to them and they're doing their best to undermine and wreak it - we need to be aware of that and not sugar-coat it just because of their money.
don_dunstan
We also have the rhetoric about respectful dialogue, (don’t disagree or rock the boat) yet this is seldom reciprocal. Remember Australia is like gum stuck on the sole of your boot.
Twiggy is aware Brazil will be a big player again and Africa will shortly join the party.
No self interest at play?
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
... and so what if a cranky communist country doesn't like us any more because we won't surrender our values for their money? Who cares? We existed hundreds of years before they did and we have rights, freedom of speech and rule of law here - unlike their tin-pot dictatorship that has only existed 70 years and makes a regular habit of genociding their own people just in case they get too uppity.

We will endure. They won't.
"don_dunstan"


Is this a joke? Irony of some sort? Don, the overwhelming majority of your contributions are well reasoned and you generally support them with irrefutable facts, but this is pure nonsense. When you say 'we', do you mean Australia, which has existed since 1901 (hardly 'hundreds of years' before Communist China) or people living in a country that uses Common Law (which has indeed been around for hundreds of years before Communist China). I can only presumre the later but on first reading it seems the former. In the modern era, 70 years is a long time for a dictatorship, although in truth I think it's better described as a series of dictatoships. At least it's not an all-in-the-family affair like those horrific Koreans. Final point, this 'tin-pot dictatorship' has managed to lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a few short decades, a performance never before seen in world history. I'm sure all but the most extreme democrats amongst the China population, if given the choice between eating properly, a roof over their head and basic health care, or a vote, would be screaming 'the yoke for me' with no hesitation. China as a society has endured for thousands of years, enjoying the fruits of civilization and cultivation at a period when Anglo-Saxons were still living in twig huts and scratching around in the dirt for worms to eat. Communist China should be seen as another phase in this long and notable history.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
... and so what if a cranky communist country doesn't like us any more because we won't surrender our values for their money? Who cares? We existed hundreds of years before they did and we have rights, freedom of speech and rule of law here - unlike their tin-pot dictatorship that has only existed 70 years and makes a regular habit of genociding their own people just in case they get too uppity.

We will endure. They won't.


Is this a joke? Irony of some sort? Don, the overwhelming majority of your contributions are well reasoned and you generally support them with irrefutable facts, but this is pure nonsense. When you say 'we', do you mean Australia, which has existed since 1901 (hardly 'hundreds of years' before Communist China) or people living in a country that uses Common Law (which has indeed been around for hundreds of years before Communist China). I can only presumre the later but on first reading it seems the former. In the modern era, 70 years is a long time for a dictatorship, although in truth I think it's better described as a series of dictatoships. At least it's not an all-in-the-family affair like those horrific Koreans. Final point, this 'tin-pot dictatorship' has managed to lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a few short decades, a performance never before seen in world history. I'm sure all but the most extreme democrats amongst the China population, if given the choice between eating properly, a roof over their head and basic health care, or a vote, would be screaming 'the yoke for me' with no hesitation. China as a society has endured for thousands of years, enjoying the fruits of civilization and cultivation at a period when Anglo-Saxons were still living in twig huts and scratching around in the dirt for worms to eat. Communist China should be seen as another phase in this long and notable history.
billybaxter
WTF, A decent Near reasonable take from Billy baxter?

Also Since the fall of the Qing, china has been under Autocratic rule, almost 108yrs then. (minor nitpick).
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

... and so what if a cranky communist country doesn't like us any more because we won't surrender our values for their money? Who cares? We existed hundreds of years before they did and we have rights, freedom of speech and rule of law here - unlike their tin-pot dictatorship that has only existed 70 years and makes a regular habit of genociding their own people just in case they get too uppity.

We will endure. They won't.


Is this a joke? Irony of some sort? Don, the overwhelming majority of your contributions are well reasoned and you generally support them with irrefutable facts, but this is pure nonsense. When you say 'we', do you mean Australia, which has existed since 1901 (hardly 'hundreds of years' before Communist China) or people living in a country that uses Common Law (which has indeed been around for hundreds of years before Communist China). I can only presumre the later but on first reading it seems the former. In the modern era, 70 years is a long time for a dictatorship, although in truth I think it's better described as a series of dictatoships. At least it's not an all-in-the-family affair like those horrific Koreans. Final point, this 'tin-pot dictatorship' has managed to lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a few short decades, a performance never before seen in world history. I'm sure all but the most extreme democrats amongst the China population, if given the choice between eating properly, a roof over their head and basic health care, or a vote, would be screaming 'the yoke for me' with no hesitation. China as a society has endured for thousands of years, enjoying the fruits of civilization and cultivation at a period when Anglo-Saxons were still living in twig huts and scratching around in the dirt for worms to eat. Communist China should be seen as another phase in this long and notable history.
billybaxter
Wow, and I don't mean to sound patronising, admonish me if you think I am, but that post is a really thoughtful post. Hopefully Don will not see your reasoned post as a tacit approval of the Xi regime.

Michael
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
This Site is Generally a Defacto Right Wing Circle Jerk. The likes of Don Will Claim otherwise and that they are 'not right wing', but there words and statements say otherwise. This Thread and the BLM threads are prime examples of this. Even the title of this thread 'The China Problem' sounds to me a bit too much like a certain Rhetoric taken up by an infamous Political Party in the 30s and 40s. And they are the ones comparing them to Hitler and Can't seem to Fathem that the United States and its allies are in decline. Pure Hysterical McCarthyism.
Dangersdan707
Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes you're smoking.......

In Railpage as in life most people see political issues through the prism of their own beliefs and prejudices.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

This Site is Generally a Defacto Right Wing Circle Jerk. The likes of Don Will Claim otherwise and that they are 'not right wing', but there words and statements say otherwise. This Thread and the BLM threads are prime examples of this. Even the title of this thread 'The China Problem' sounds to me a bit too much like a certain Rhetoric taken up by an infamous Political Party in the 30s and 40s. And they are the ones comparing them to Hitler and Can't seem to Fathem that the United States and its allies are in decline. Pure Hysterical McCarthyism.
Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes you're smoking.......

In Railpage as in life most people see political issues through the prism of their own beliefs and prejudices.
BrentonGolding
Yeah they sure do. But some people need to read a flaming book, instead of simply reading from social effing media.

Michael
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes you're smoking.......

In Railpage as in life most people see political issues through the prism of their own beliefs and prejudices.
Yeah they sure do. But some people need to read a flaming book, instead of simply reading from social effing media.

Michael
mejhammers1
I wouldn't worry too much, I think Dan has read plenty of both Laughing

As for the rest of the population, social media / Herald Sun / Guardian / Socialist Worker the problem is still the same, read the same nonsense over and over and it will skew your view of life in one direction or another

Read widely even if you don't like what you are reading because pretty much everything you read has some sort of angle or cause that they are pushing. Read enough different points of view and you will figure your own out soon enough

***edit = really should have completed the circle and got back on topic by pointing out that reading widely is a luxury that most people in China do not enjoy. I have friends who have worked there and returned home recently and a couple who are still over there who can attest to that***
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes you're smoking.......

In Railpage as in life most people see political issues through the prism of their own beliefs and prejudices.
Yeah they sure do. But some people need to read a flaming book, instead of simply reading from social effing media.

Michael
I wouldn't worry too much, I think Dan has read plenty of both Laughing

As for the rest of the population, social media / Herald Sun / Guardian / Socialist Worker the problem is still the same, read the same nonsense over and over and it will skew your view of life in one direction or another

Read widely even if you don't like what you are reading because pretty much everything you read has some sort of angle or cause that they are pushing. Read enough different points of view and you will figure your own out soon enough

***edit = really should have completed the circle and got back on topic by pointing out that reading widely is a luxury that most people in China do not enjoy. I have friends who have worked there and returned home recently and a couple who are still over there who can attest to that***
BrentonGolding
***edit = really should have completed the circle and got back on topic by pointing out that reading widely is a luxury that most people in China do not enjoy. I have friends who have worked there and returned home recently and a couple who are still over there who can attest to that***

Very True. And not just China.

Michael
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Is this a joke? Irony of some sort? Don, the overwhelming majority of your contributions are well reasoned and you generally support them with irrefutable facts, but this is pure nonsense. When you say 'we', do you mean Australia, which has existed since 1901 (hardly 'hundreds of years' before Communist China) or people living in a country that uses Common Law (which has indeed been around for hundreds of years before Communist China). I can only presumre the later but on first reading it seems the former. In the modern era, 70 years is a long time for a dictatorship, although in truth I think it's better described as a series of dictatoships. At least it's not an all-in-the-family affair like those horrific Koreans.
billybaxter
I'd trace our rule of law and lack of autocratic authoritarian government back to the Magna Carta, the first contract that government ever really had with the people. The reason why people flock to this country - still - is the fact that we have stable, liberal democratic systems, a rule of law and a nice health and welfare system. Point to me where this exists outside the English-speaking world - still? Japan is the possible exception but I struggle to think of any other non-English speaking system that is comparable.

We have pretty much the best system out - there's no shame in stating that.
Final point, this 'tin-pot dictatorship' has managed to lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a few short decades, a performance never before seen in world history. I'm sure all but the most extreme democrats amongst the China population, if given the choice between eating properly, a roof over their head and basic health care, or a vote, would be screaming 'the yoke for me' with no hesitation. China as a society has endured for thousands of years, enjoying the fruits of civilization and cultivation at a period when Anglo-Saxons were still living in twig huts and scratching around in the dirt for worms to eat. Communist China should be seen as another phase in this long and notable history.
billybaxter
Could they have done that without the patronage and markets of the west? Without stealing all the intellectual property that they possibly could have? Without adopting parts of our capitalist systems that they wanted to keep while ignoring the bits that didn't suit their agenda? I don't think they could.

Historically China regularly tears itself apart in civil wars. Hell, it didn't even really exist as a single, unified nation until repeated attacks and colonisations by the western powers forced it to consolidate around 80-100 years ago - previous to that it was a series of competing and continually warring tribal nations and monarchies with not much in common.

You really give them too much credit, they're actually our very own creation.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Is this a joke? Irony of some sort? Don, the overwhelming majority of your contributions are well reasoned and you generally support them with irrefutable facts, but this is pure nonsense. When you say 'we', do you mean Australia, which has existed since 1901 (hardly 'hundreds of years' before Communist China) or people living in a country that uses Common Law (which has indeed been around for hundreds of years before Communist China). I can only presumre the later but on first reading it seems the former. In the modern era, 70 years is a long time for a dictatorship, although in truth I think it's better described as a series of dictatoships. At least it's not an all-in-the-family affair like those horrific Koreans.
I'd trace our rule of law and lack of autocratic authoritarian government back to the Magna Carta, the first contract that government ever really had with the people. The reason why people flock to this country - still - is the fact that we have stable, liberal democratic systems, a rule of law and a nice health and welfare system. Point to me where this exists outside the English-speaking world - still? Japan is the possible exception but I struggle to think of any other non-English speaking system that is comparable.

We have pretty much the best system out - there's no shame in stating that.
Final point, this 'tin-pot dictatorship' has managed to lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a few short decades, a performance never before seen in world history. I'm sure all but the most extreme democrats amongst the China population, if given the choice between eating properly, a roof over their head and basic health care, or a vote, would be screaming 'the yoke for me' with no hesitation. China as a society has endured for thousands of years, enjoying the fruits of civilization and cultivation at a period when Anglo-Saxons were still living in twig huts and scratching around in the dirt for worms to eat. Communist China should be seen as another phase in this long and notable history.
Could they have done that without the patronage and markets of the west? Without stealing all the intellectual property that they possibly could have? Without adopting parts of our capitalist systems that they wanted to keep while ignoring the bits that didn't suit their agenda? I don't think they could.

Historically China regularly tears itself apart in civil wars. Hell, it didn't even really exist as a single, unified nation until repeated attacks and colonisations by the western powers forced it to consolidate around 80-100 years ago - previous to that it was a series of competing and continually warring tribal nations and monarchies with not much in common.

You really give them too much credit, they're actually our very own creation.
don_dunstan
Point to me where this exists outside the English-speaking world - still? Japan is the possible exception but I struggle to think of any other non-English speaking system that is comparable.

So France, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Austria, yeah those countries have a crap health and welfare systems and are not comparable to ours. And all English speaking to a country.

Michael
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Is this a joke? Irony of some sort? Don, the overwhelming majority of your contributions are well reasoned and you generally support them with irrefutable facts, but this is pure nonsense. When you say 'we', do you mean Australia, which has existed since 1901 (hardly 'hundreds of years' before Communist China) or people living in a country that uses Common Law (which has indeed been around for hundreds of years before Communist China). I can only presumre the later but on first reading it seems the former. In the modern era, 70 years is a long time for a dictatorship, although in truth I think it's better described as a series of dictatoships. At least it's not an all-in-the-family affair like those horrific Koreans.
I'd trace our rule of law and lack of autocratic authoritarian government back to the Magna Carta, the first contract that government ever really had with the people. The reason why people flock to this country - still - is the fact that we have stable, liberal democratic systems, a rule of law and a nice health and welfare system. Point to me where this exists outside the English-speaking world - still? Japan is the possible exception but I struggle to think of any other non-English speaking system that is comparable.

We have pretty much the best system out - there's no shame in stating that.
Final point, this 'tin-pot dictatorship' has managed to lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a few short decades, a performance never before seen in world history. I'm sure all but the most extreme democrats amongst the China population, if given the choice between eating properly, a roof over their head and basic health care, or a vote, would be screaming 'the yoke for me' with no hesitation. China as a society has endured for thousands of years, enjoying the fruits of civilization and cultivation at a period when Anglo-Saxons were still living in twig huts and scratching around in the dirt for worms to eat. Communist China should be seen as another phase in this long and notable history.
Could they have done that without the patronage and markets of the west? Without stealing all the intellectual property that they possibly could have? Without adopting parts of our capitalist systems that they wanted to keep while ignoring the bits that didn't suit their agenda? I don't think they could.

Historically China regularly tears itself apart in civil wars. Hell, it didn't even really exist as a single, unified nation until repeated attacks and colonisations by the western powers forced it to consolidate around 80-100 years ago - previous to that it was a series of competing and continually warring tribal nations and monarchies with not much in common.

You really give them too much credit, they're actually our very own creation.
Point to me where this exists outside the English-speaking world - still? Japan is the possible exception but I struggle to think of any other non-English speaking system that is comparable.

So France, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Austria, yeah those countries have a crap health and welfare systems and are not comparable to ours. And all English speaking to a country.

Michael
mejhammers1
I said "I struggle to think" - it was one in the morning and I'd had a really long day at work.

Okay, Western Europe... but then again they all pretty much speak English now-days anyway. Anywhere else?

You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself. People don't pile onto leaky boats trying to get into Argentina, Brazil or Mexico. They don't cross borders illegally hoping to get a better life from the prosperity in Pakistan or Burma.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Even the Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs recognises the risk that an aggressive Chinese Communist Party poses to Australia - here is DFAT Head Frances Adamson in the Australian a few days ago:

A fluent Mandarin speaker, she was Australia’s ambassador in Beijing­ from 2011 to 2015, following earlier postings in the Australian consulate-general in Hong Kong and with the then Australian Commerce and Industry Office in Taiwan…

“We’ve seen China seeking to assert itself in this region, in the Indo-Pacific and globally, in ways that suits its interests but don’t suit the interests of countries like ­Australia. We want a peaceful, stable, prosperous region … but when influence­ builds into interference, that is something we don’t want to see, our government won’t tolerate and I think most Australians are broadly supportive of that”…

When asked how Australia should deal with Beijing right now, she chooses to answer in a general way without mentioning China, but it is obvious which country her words are aimed at.

“Wherever the challenges come from, Australia should, Australia must, Australia is, standing up for its interests because if we don’t we are on a very slippery slope.

“The institutions we take for granted — our parliament, our democracy, our legal system, our freedom of speech and association — they really are at stake now. This is not a theoretical threat or concept and we need to make sure our institutions are strong and that we can defend ourselves. And this is where the role of diplomacy comes into play.”

I've been saying this all along - the aim it to destroy our democratic institutions that support our system so that our resistance to communism is lessened. They're starting with the universities, state governments and the large private companies but the aim is ultimately the Commonwealth.

Freedom comes at a cost, sometimes it needs to be defended from those that would seek to take it from us as we saw quite clearly in WWII. This might be a soft-power push led with money at the moment but clearly they see us as a US-proxy they want to subsume and it's only going to get tougher as they ratchet up the pressure on us; witness the made-up sanctions against Australian wine to see where the next direction is.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Is this a joke? Irony of some sort? Don, the overwhelming majority of your contributions are well reasoned and you generally support them with irrefutable facts, but this is pure nonsense. When you say 'we', do you mean Australia, which has existed since 1901 (hardly 'hundreds of years' before Communist China) or people living in a country that uses Common Law (which has indeed been around for hundreds of years before Communist China). I can only presumre the later but on first reading it seems the former. In the modern era, 70 years is a long time for a dictatorship, although in truth I think it's better described as a series of dictatoships. At least it's not an all-in-the-family affair like those horrific Koreans.
I'd trace our rule of law and lack of autocratic authoritarian government back to the Magna Carta, the first contract that government ever really had with the people. The reason why people flock to this country - still - is the fact that we have stable, liberal democratic systems, a rule of law and a nice health and welfare system. Point to me where this exists outside the English-speaking world - still? Japan is the possible exception but I struggle to think of any other non-English speaking system that is comparable.

We have pretty much the best system out - there's no shame in stating that.
Final point, this 'tin-pot dictatorship' has managed to lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a few short decades, a performance never before seen in world history. I'm sure all but the most extreme democrats amongst the China population, if given the choice between eating properly, a roof over their head and basic health care, or a vote, would be screaming 'the yoke for me' with no hesitation. China as a society has endured for thousands of years, enjoying the fruits of civilization and cultivation at a period when Anglo-Saxons were still living in twig huts and scratching around in the dirt for worms to eat. Communist China should be seen as another phase in this long and notable history.
Could they have done that without the patronage and markets of the west? Without stealing all the intellectual property that they possibly could have? Without adopting parts of our capitalist systems that they wanted to keep while ignoring the bits that didn't suit their agenda? I don't think they could.

Historically China regularly tears itself apart in civil wars. Hell, it didn't even really exist as a single, unified nation until repeated attacks and colonisations by the western powers forced it to consolidate around 80-100 years ago - previous to that it was a series of competing and continually warring tribal nations and monarchies with not much in common.

You really give them too much credit, they're actually our very own creation.
Point to me where this exists outside the English-speaking world - still? Japan is the possible exception but I struggle to think of any other non-English speaking system that is comparable.

So France, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Austria, yeah those countries have a crap health and welfare systems and are not comparable to ours. And all English speaking to a country.

Michael
I said "I struggle to think" - it was one in the morning and I'd had a really long day at work.

Okay, Western Europe... but then again they all pretty much speak English now-days anyway. Anywhere else?

You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself. People don't pile onto leaky boats trying to get into Argentina, Brazil or Mexico. They don't cross borders illegally hoping to get a better life from the prosperity in Pakistan or Burma.
don_dunstan
Okay, Western Europe... but then again they all pretty much speak English now-days anyway. Anywhere else?

Of course they do because when it comes to language we English speakers are effing lazy gits.

You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself. People don't pile onto leaky boats trying to get into Argentina, Brazil or Mexico. They don't cross borders illegally hoping to get a better life from the prosperity in Pakistan or Burma.

90% correct. My Mother and Father moved to Britain, because they were asked to by the British Government because of a shortage of Labour. In the 50's and 60's Antigua and Barbuda was still a colony of the UK.  

I moved to Australia for love, pure and simple and of course I will move to a Anglo Centric country. Well probably not the US because they don't shoot cars, they shoot .... Its a saying from Richard Pryor, look it up.

Anyway just as people from Guadeloupe will migrate to France or Quebec, or people from Surinam will migrate to Belgium or Holland.


Michael
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself.
"don_dunstan"
How many years constitute the cut-off point where people don't have to be reminded any more about how lucky they are to have migrated here?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself.
How many years constitute the cut-off point where people don't have to be reminded any more about how lucky they are to have migrated here?
Valvegear
As long as Don acknowledges that just as the enormous contribution my parents Generation made to the UK, he also takes into account the contribution that migrants have made to Australia.

It is not a one way street.

Michael
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I moved to Australia for love, pure and simple and of course I will move to a Anglo Centric country.
mejhammers1
Why?

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