An interesting bureaucratic argument with which to waste some time.

I don't see getting a hair cut is either medical or essential except in special cases. As for care I should have said 'care giving' but not to worry. I can still cut my fringe away from my eyes and the rest either doesn't matter or can keep my ears warm.

Given the conflicting rules, interpretations, enforcements (and lack thereof) and instructions I am just thankful that these clowns are not issuing Train Orders.

Ignore billys 1,3 or 4

Simples. Reason 2, its permitted because its "permitted work".

A big list of work types that are permitted.
Rule of thumb, if it can be done with low risk of infection, AND safe practice rules are in place and practiced.
It doesn't have to be essential, just safe to do.

Tomorrow my carpenter can finally fix a window.  Not essential, but now that he can safely visit observing protocols, then OK.

Some may see contradictions, but they aren't the ones discussing the fine detail with hundreds of disparit industry groups to work out how each can get back to work. Even JIM is now happy.

cheers
John

It may well also he a hangover from a period, 17th century England maybe, when hairdressers also did minor surgical work, and were hence considered medical practitioners. Old laws not taken off the book?

Thanks BB reinforces my resolve not to get a haircut. I would never let a barber near me with a cut throat razor even just to trim the edges.
Perhaps hairdressers had more political clout than, say, nail whatever they do people.

This is the rather lame advice from the Department of Home Affairs:
https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/new-zealand-safe-travel-zone

It worth noting that the travel bubble is only one-way, ie New Zealand to Australia. If you wish to return to New Zealand, you have to go into quarantine (which presumably you would budget for). Australians are still prohibited from travelling to New Zealand, as for other international destinations, unless granted an exemption.

The Department's only advice to onward travellers is that they should check local requirements. Use of the word ‘must’ rather than ‘should’ and links to the various states' restriction websites would be a major improvement. It fails to point out that if you travel to Melbourne, you can’t travel elsewhere in Victoria and would be up for a $3000 quarantine to return to NSW. Judging by some of the backpackers interviewed on TV they didn't seem to have much of a clue.

The Department of Home Affairs is responsible for enforcing visas, which are issued to all non-Australians.

It may well also he a hangover from a period, 17th century England maybe, when hairdressers also did minor surgical work, and were hence considered medical practitioners. Old laws not taken off the book?

That rings a bell - I'm sure I read somewhere that the title of "chirurgeon" was used, and this later morphed into "surgeon" Now that's going to annoy me until I find the reference.

An interesting bureaucratic argument with which to waste some time.

I don't see getting a hair cut is either medical or essential except in special cases. As for care I should have said 'care giving' but not to worry. I can still cut my fringe away from my eyes and the rest either doesn't matter or can keep my ears warm.

Given the conflicting rules, interpretations, enforcements (and lack thereof) and instructions I am just thankful that these clowns are not issuing Train Orders.

Ignore billys 1,3 or 4

Simples. Reason 2, its permitted because its "permitted work".

A big list of work types that are permitted.
Rule of thumb, if it can be done with low risk of infection, AND safe practice rules are in place and practiced.
It doesn't have to be essential, just safe to do.

Tomorrow my carpenter can finally fix a window.  Not essential, but now that he can safely visit observing protocols, then OK.

Some may see contradictions, but they aren't the ones discussing the fine detail with hundreds of disparit industry groups to work out how each can get back to work. Even JIM is now happy.

cheers
John

Not arguing about the permitted work bit - that is no doubt OK but how do the customers get there within the four rules about being out of the house?

It may well also he a hangover from a period, 17th century England maybe, when hairdressers also did minor surgical work, and were hence considered medical practitioners. Old laws not taken off the book?

That rings a bell - I'm sure I read somewhere that the title of "chirurgeon" was used, and this later morphed into "surgeon" Now that's going to annoy me until I find the reference.

Don't tear any hair out over it.

There's a decent summary here, although cautious browsing is recommended, it is the site of an awful uber-hipster style establishment.
https://barbersurgeonsguild.com/magazine/history-barber-surgeon/

An interesting bureaucratic argument with which to waste some time.

I don't see getting a hair cut is either medical or essential except in special cases. As for care I should have said 'care giving' but not to worry. I can still cut my fringe away from my eyes and the rest either doesn't matter or can keep my ears warm.

Given the conflicting rules, interpretations, enforcements (and lack thereof) and instructions I am just thankful that these clowns are not issuing Train Orders.

Ignore billys 1,3 or 4

Simples. Reason 2, its permitted because its "permitted work".

A big list of work types that are permitted.
Rule of thumb, if it can be done with low risk of infection, AND safe practice rules are in place and practiced.
It doesn't have to be essential, just safe to do.

Tomorrow my carpenter can finally fix a window.  Not essential, but now that he can safely visit observing protocols, then OK.

Some may see contradictions, but they aren't the ones discussing the fine detail with hundreds of disparit industry groups to work out how each can get back to work. Even JIM is now happy.

cheers
John

Not arguing about the permitted work bit - that is no doubt OK but how do the customers get there within the four rules about being out of the house?

Permitted work cuts both ways.

Eg. you are allowed to go to the supermarket because they are permitted work(to be open). Also essential.
You cant go to a clothes shop, because they are not permitted work.
You can go to BigW for pick up only. Even though non-essential, non-health. Permitted because they have a safe practice.

5km ( tomorrow 25km) still applies.

PS sorry about the pun.

cheers
John

Shane , you want the legal authority.  AFP is the primary policing agency. They can enforce some State laws.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2014L00557/Explanatory%20Statement/Text  

The WHOLE premesis is covered. Not just the immigration zone.
Sydney Airport and Tullamarine Airport, including carparks out to lord knows where the boundary is.

Pamphlet. You're just being pendant. What would you call the arrival card?
This is the "bubble", special rules apply.
Borderfarce know that, yet they didn't even think of doing anything special. They did it with SARS.

Even a script announcement upon the plane's arrival would have been something, they do it for "here comes the bug spray".

cheers
John

Once again its pretty simple, if you need pandering, don't fly!

• investigating minor criminal matters
• patrols
• enforcing Commonwealth law, including the application of local state/territory laws
• taking reports of offences
• making arrests
• conducting interviews
• subsequent judicial processing

So in the State of NSW, please tell me which law was broken that the police of any jurisdiction need to get involved?

Tudge said there was nothing stopping people from entering Victoria, as no restrictions have been placed on people entering the state.



“I have lost count of the number of times [Scott Morrison] has said to me, thank you for not closing your border,"  Daniel Andrews.

"to lord knows where the boundary is."

If you didn't know, Sydney's International and Domestic Airports are completely separated.

Andrews said the position of the federal government was domestic border closures were not necessary, but he thought given Victoria had said it did not want to be part of the travel bubble until it had its outbreak under complete control, the federal government would have prevented onward travel.

Andrews "thought"? He didn't put it in writing and he didn't make it law.

So once again, how are the Federal Police suppose to control a domestic border for which they do not have jurisdiction and know what the Victorian Premier is thinking?

"Unlike Western Australia, Victoria does not have restrictions on incoming domestic arrivals,"

Ok, so if a Premier doesn't want visitors in their state there is clearly a ways and means. Perhaps Dan the man should be making phone calls to Perth for legal and policy advice, not bitching Canberra, the Media and anyone else who is willing to listen.

I have not seen bug spray used in years.

So now you telling me/us that the airline crew are supposed to be up to date with Australian domestic state border matters advising passengers that a border that is not closed is actually virtually closed and it depends on where you are from if its closed to you or not and the non closed, closed border rule may change at any time thus exposing the airline and its crew of providing wrong advice.

The information for SARS-1 and SARS-2 falls within the jurisdiction of the Fed govt, however it falls to the States to act and provide health checks.

Anyway, as stated above there still does not appear to be any law broken, just a dummy spit by Premier under the gun for locking his people up for 3mths because his team screwed up.

As I said, its all very simple!

This is the rather lame advice from the Department of Home Affairs:
https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/new-zealand-safe-travel-zone

It worth noting that the travel bubble is only one-way, ie New Zealand to Australia. If you wish to return to New Zealand, you have to go into quarantine (which presumably you would budget for). Australians are still prohibited from travelling to New Zealand, as for other international destinations, unless granted an exemption.

The Department's only advice to onward travellers is that they should check local requirements. Use of the word ‘must’ rather than ‘should’ and links to the various states' restriction websites would be a major improvement. It fails to point out that if you travel to Melbourne, you can’t travel elsewhere in Victoria and would be up for a $3000 quarantine to return to NSW. Judging by some of the backpackers interviewed on TV they didn't seem to have much of a clue.

The Department of Home Affairs is responsible for enforcing visas, which are issued to all non-Australians.

VOA provides access to the Commonwealth of Australia, it has no internal restrictions based on state based border closures.

On the AM Up Swanners and as usual I had the carriage to myself when I boarded at Footscray so I stationed myself in the front of the car to take advantage of the power point due to a poor laptop battery.

Not once but twice other passengers boarded (first lot at Gisborne and the second at Kyneton) and sat DIRECTLY behind me despite the otherwise empty carriage and big yellow signs on the windows telling them to maintain distance where possible. One passenger seemed completely surprised when I pointed to the sign right next to her and asked her to move while the Gizzy group were downright hostile and told me that if I didn't like it I should move.

With morons like this is it any wonder that we have been in lockdown for so long. If people don't get it by now what hope is there?

If you didn't know, Sydney's International and Domestic Airports are completely separated.

Absolute rubbish. it's one airport with two sets of terminal buildings. Zurich, for example, also has two separate terminal buildings (if you didn't know).

Not once but twice other passengers boarded (first lot at Gisborne and the second at Kyneton) and sat DIRECTLY behind me despite the otherwise empty carriage and big yellow signs on the windows telling them to maintain distance where possible. One passenger seemed completely surprised when I and pointed to the sign right next to her asked her to move while the Gizzy group were downright hostile and told me that if I didn't like it I should move.

With morons like this is it any wonder that we have been in lockdown for so long. If people don't get it by now what hope is there?

Same on a number 11 tram here on Saturday. The first row of seats is roped off and clearly signposted "These seats are not to be used." I sat in the second row, and the nearest passenger to me was at least 4 metres away. You guessed it; a pair of bimbos hopped on, ducked under the rope and sat immediately in front of me. When I pointed out that they were in the wrong place I was invited to "get a life". Fortunately, the driver heard it all and told them, in no uncertain terms, to shove off. One of them threatened to report him, and I had pleasure in inviting her to do so, since both the driver and I would have great pleasure in watching her make a fool of herself in any subsequent enquiry. I gave the driver my business card, although I don't expect him to need it.
Rules don't apply to them; they are bullet proof; anyone who insists that they should do the right thing is ridiculed - as you say BG, with morons like this, it's no wonder we've been locked down.

On the AM Up Swanners and as usual I had the carriage to myself when I boarded at Footscray so I stationed myself in the front of the car to take advantage of the power point due to a poor laptop battery.

Not once but twice other passengers boarded (first lot at Gisborne and the second at Kyneton) and sat DIRECTLY behind me despite the otherwise empty carriage and big yellow signs on the windows telling them to maintain distance where possible. One passenger seemed completely surprised when I and pointed to the sign right next to her asked her to move while the Gizzy group were downright hostile and told me that if I didn't like it I should move.

With morons like this is it any wonder that we have been in lockdown for so long. If people don't get it by now what hope is there?

Waiting outside local butcher shop last week (Sydney) Sign on window limiting amount of customers, shop crowded. 3 FWs walk past and straight inside.
Excuse me, disappeared from my vocabulary at this stage.

Shane , you want the legal authority.  AFP is the primary policing agency. They can enforce some State laws.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2014L00557/Explanatory%20Statement/Text  

The WHOLE premesis is covered. Not just the immigration zone.

If you didn't know, Sydney's International and Domestic Airports are completely separated.
.............

I have not seen bug spray used in years.

So now you telling me/us that the airline crew are supposed to be up to date with Australian domestic state border matters .........

Anyway, as stated above there still does not appear to be any law broken, just a dummy spit by Premier under the gun for locking his people up for 3mths because his team screwed up.

As I said, its all very simple!

only simple to you Shane.

You are still confusing terminals with airport.

The WHOLE of Sydney Airport is Federal territory. I cited one regulation to illustrate the Federality of Airports and you go off about law breaking.

Nobody has suggested the passengers broke any laws. But they certainly circumvented the state crossing process.

Borderfarce are the passenger contact agency. They tell passengers what they can do.

They also tell the Airlines what the local rules are and how to apply them.
Eg hand out arrival cards, announce whatever the provided script says, check certain classes of transfers for potential visa problems.

Borderfarce had special green queues for the NZ arrivals, and what did they do? Just waved through with no info at all.
Passengers getting on the tranfer busses  - no problem there??.
Unlike the red queue, "welcome to quarrantine"

And if you haven't been bug sprayed lately, try coming via China. Hit & miss when they do it, its a fun surprise.

This is now all moot. The Vic contact tracers have belatedly reached all 55. The WA quarantine bus picked up their unexpected guests.

cheers
John

VOA provides access to the Commonwealth of Australia, it has no internal restrictions based on state based border closures.

What's to prevent such restrictions being added?

Dan Andrews and his (increasingly delusional and neurotic) Twitterati groupies are creating a storm in a teacup.  Here are the DHHS Vic rules on NZ travelers.  No quarantine needed bro:

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/information-overseas-travellers-coronavirus-disease-covid-19#travelling-to-victoria-from-new-zealand

This is the rather lame advice from the Department of Home Affairs:
https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/new-zealand-safe-travel-zone

It worth noting that the travel bubble is only one-way, ie New Zealand to Australia. If you wish to return to New Zealand, you have to go into quarantine (which presumably you would budget for). Australians are still prohibited from travelling to New Zealand, as for other international destinations, unless granted an exemption.

The Department's only advice to onward travellers is that they should check local requirements. Use of the word ‘must’ rather than ‘should’ and links to the various states' restriction websites would be a major improvement. It fails to point out that if you travel to Melbourne, you can’t travel elsewhere in Victoria and would be up for a $3000 quarantine to return to NSW. Judging by some of the backpackers interviewed on TV they didn't seem to have much of a clue.

The Department of Home Affairs is responsible for enforcing visas, which are issued to all non-Australians.

VOA provides access to the Commonwealth of Australia, it has no internal restrictions based on state based border closures.

VOA = who or what?

At the press conference on 5/10, Sutton said there was nothing stopping those from NZ coming to Victoria in the upcoming travel hub.
Dan was standing (social distance) alongside him.
The only person who can't remember this is Dan (I don't want to make this political) Andrews.

At the press conference on 5/10, Sutton said there was nothing stopping those from NZ coming to Victoria in the upcoming travel hub.
Dan was standing (social distance) alongside him.
The only person who can't remember this is Dan (I don't want to make this political) Andrews.

What NZ tells their people?

Geez people, this is simple, that so many (I suspect) Victorians don’t get it is partital explanation as to why Victoria is in this position in the first place.

There are NO restrictions to entering Victoria, much like DPRK, Chairman Dan of the DPRV allows vistors, it’s just that the rest of us are not allowing you to visit.

If someone chooses (or most likely due to suffering a mental disorder) to enter Victoria they are allowed to do so. It matters not where they are from, be that an Australian state or territory, or some international place.

The shape of, construction of, colocation of, jurisdiction over and anything else associated with airports is entirely irrelevant.

There is simply no law or process or some other immagined reason that is being bent, broken, avoided or subverted.

Right now, Victoria is only a risk to the rest of us, (including New Zealand) that risk is not bidirectional.

VOA = subclass 444 visa

I think Dan has made a mountain out of a molehill with this. Probably should have just said "there was some confusion - it's all been cleared up now - let's move forwards" but he is using it as an opportunity to attack the Feds. He should be better at picking his fights.

However poor form from the Feds. The fact that WA and likely TAS weren't expecting New Zealanders shows there was poor communication and processes.

What NZ tells their people?

Which is the whole point. It implies you can just wander round Victoria to your heart's content, much the same as NSW or NT. No mention of the severe restrictions in Victoria or that to travel to another state, particularly NSW, you'll have to quarantine, if it lets you in. No warning to check the Victorian restrictions.

Trans-Tasmin?

On the AM Up Swanners and as usual I had the carriage to myself when I boarded at Footscray so I stationed myself in the front of the car to take advantage of the power point due to a poor laptop battery.

Not once but twice other passengers boarded (first lot at Gisborne and the second at Kyneton) and sat DIRECTLY behind me despite the otherwise empty carriage and big yellow signs on the windows telling them to maintain distance where possible. One passenger seemed completely surprised when I pointed to the sign right next to her and asked her to move while the Gizzy group were downright hostile and told me that if I didn't like it I should move.

With morons like this is it any wonder that we have been in lockdown for so long. If people don't get it by now what hope is there?

Postscript, when I got up to alight at Castlemaine I turned around, had a look down the carriage and there was the woman who I had asked to move sitting in an aisle seat directly across from the ONLY other passenger on the carriage. Maybe 1.5m apart if they were lucky but why oh why would you sit next to someone when there is half a bloody carriage free? And no, they did not appear to know one another.

Got to CME and jumped on Skype to ask a mate how his weekend was. "good thanks" came the reply. "we had friends and their kids over to ours for lunch on Sunday". Not only do they live in Melbourne where this is not allowed but they live in one of the postcodes with mystery cases ATM. Hope. Less.