China to Stop Buying Aussie Coal

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
2013 called, wanting it's car industry back.
It closed in 2016/2017
Whoosh!
The rot started long before that, we have been now this pathway before or do you and Wombat  also part of the problem need a history lesson again?
A history from you is always one of the dullest fantasies a bloke  or blokette could imagine, let alone listen to. I usually have to listen to an hour of Albert Steptoe afterwards to cheer myself up.
wobert
The truth is usually dull, ask any Journo. No conspiracy theories why the car industry is gone and was going for 20 years.

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  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Your turn Don, I reckon it ends with h
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Post Covid Australia needs to start taking eggs out of the China basket and moving them across to India, A growing economy with a similarly large population but with a big difference - a democracy that believes in the rule of law and one that we have a shared history and growing cultural relationship with

A much better option for Australia's long term future than taking the easy money from China with all of it's strings attached

I for one don't care if there is a bit of short term pain for long term gain, we need to ween our nation off of it's China dependence

Anyone who has studied Economics knows that one of the golden rules is don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Many a share market investor has ignored this advice to their peril, why we as a nation thought it was a good idea is beyond me
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Post Covid Australia needs to start taking eggs out of the China basket and moving them across to India, A growing economy with a similarly large population but with a big difference - a democracy that believes in the rule of law and one that we have a shared history and growing cultural relationship with

A much better option for Australia's long term future than taking the easy money from China with all of it's strings attached

I for one don't care if there is a bit of short term pain for long term gain, we need to ween our nation off of it's China dependence

Anyone who has studied Economics knows that one of the golden rules is don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Many a share market investor has ignored this advice to their peril, why we as a nation thought it was a good idea is beyond me
BrentonGolding

Hi,
having lived in a travel to India for business alot, Rule of law and India usually don't belong in the same sentence.

But your pint is extremely valid. Geographic diversification is I believe the way forward, Govt contracts take the lead and if it cannot be made here for various reasons, the money should be shared around and strategic partner ships is the way forward.
For example say the various govt's have $100B collectively to spend Os each year on good and services and various contracts, no one country can get more than say 10% (military and health spending excluded). For everything they can line up.

The pain as you say will be China buys more from us than we do from them, alot more. However, most of our products sold are low labour and if they don't buy it someone else in most cases will, ie no one is not going to buy the best and generally cheapest grade iron ore, Uranium, gas and coking coal in the world. From their side their products are value added higher labour component. If I don't buy their fridge, I'll buy some else's fridge.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
China's imports of Indonesian coal are down 37%, but don't let that ruin a good story Razz

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/15/china-losing-interest-in-australian-coal-isnt-about-diplomacy-its-simply-market-dynamics?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR1_o89ufhBfBxIz8opcdTQga1L6jBaTGx4J5f8ooYfO5jHWjXvTZQdgYOA
bingley hall
Interesting, they are cutting back on other imports from Oz. But regardless China's vision of "Self-sufficiency" is a good tip for Australia to follow similar.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
2013 called, wanting it's car industry back.
It closed in 2016/2017
Whoosh!
The rot started long before that, we have been now this pathway before or do you and Wombat  also part of the problem need a history lesson again?
RTT_Rules
Go right ahead with another one of your opinionated diatribes - I won't read it anyway like most of your stuff.

You're quite simply hopeless at constructing any sort of a sound, logical argument - that's the core of the problem. And you think that your opinions are the same thing as facts -which they're not. Recall how you started out arguing that inflation had been killed by modern technology? Then you changed it so that it had been killed for all time by the destruction of the union movement in Australia. And then you gave up altogether because you couldn't pull a single, solitary fact out that supported either of those claims.

So yeah - go ahead and give us your totally fact-free golden wisdom about the destruction of the Australian car industry again. It'll be really insightful and interesting...
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
2013 called, wanting it's car industry back.
It closed in 2016/2017
Whoosh!
The rot started long before that, we have been now this pathway before or do you and Wombat  also part of the problem need a history lesson again?
A history from you is always one of the dullest fantasies a bloke  or blokette could imagine, let alone listen to. I usually have to listen to an hour of Albert Steptoe afterwards to cheer myself up.
wobert
The kind of history that is almost entirely fact-free and re-written to include some kind of perverse libertarian Ayn Rand lesson into it...
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Another bombshell...


China is the destination for about 25% of our coal exports. It'll make a dint....
So what will most likely happen is a coal swap, i.e. at sea two ships cross paths as the capacity by other suppliers to simply step in isn't there and of course for the price.
RTT_Rules
You're wrong about this too - there's Aussie coal ships that have been waiting for months to off-load their cargoes: Splash247

Splash understands that there are more than 20 bulk carriers including capesizes and panamaxes, carrying coal from Australia, which have been waiting to unload at Tangshan’s Jingtang Port for about three months, and there are also many ships under the same situation at nearby Caofeidian Port and Huanghua Port.

When contacted by Splash, an official at Tangshan Port declined to comment on the issue.

A Chinese coal trader confirmed with Splash that there has been tighter import coal regulations this year comparing with the situation in previous years, and the control measures include prolonged custom clearance times and stricter import quota controls.

In future do at least the most very basic Googling of something before you write something as dumb as "coal swap". There's not a shred of evidence for what you wrote there.
  ElliotProvis Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
This whole saga, regardless of whether it is driven by diplomatic posturing or self-sufficiency concerns, makes the point that we simply cannot rely on mining exports of low-labour natural resources to drive economic growth. The global economy is contracting, and it is doubtful that it will recover to pre-COVID levels for a long time. Moaning by our political elite about what China is or isn’t doing isn’t going to change any off these facts.

I do not think we can simply swap trading partners, and start offloading all these exports to India. It’s an entirely different economy, has very different needs and demands to China, and so a simple ‘switch’ isn’t possible. Has India ever indicated an interest in importing the vast amount of coal, iron ore, or some such that we export to China? So why would we expect that we can just switch over? The fact t
Hat we are so incredibly reliant on a few exports of basic mineral products should be a real wake-up call that we need to diversify our exports. It’s an indictment on politicians of all stripes that nobody had bothered to properly consider just how exposed this keeps would be when the demand for one of those products would disappear. Sometimes it’s difficult not to wonder if anybody is actually at
The helm of the ship
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Another bombshell...


China is the destination for about 25% of our coal exports. It'll make a dint....
So what will most likely happen is a coal swap, i.e. at sea two ships cross paths as the capacity by other suppliers to simply step in isn't there and of course for the price.
You're wrong about this too - there's Aussie coal ships that have been waiting for months to off-load their cargoes: Splash247

Splash understands that there are more than 20 bulk carriers including capesizes and panamaxes, carrying coal from Australia, which have been waiting to unload at Tangshan’s Jingtang Port for about three months, and there are also many ships under the same situation at nearby Caofeidian Port and Huanghua Port.

When contacted by Splash, an official at Tangshan Port declined to comment on the issue.

A Chinese coal trader confirmed with Splash that there has been tighter import coal regulations this year comparing with the situation in previous years, and the control measures include prolonged custom clearance times and stricter import quota controls.

In future do at least the most very basic Googling of something before you write something as dumb as "coal swap". There's not a shred of evidence for what you wrote there.
don_dunstan
So the other poster mentioned a 37% reduction in import of Indonesian coal and now the Australian coal only is a conspiracy theory?

"Splash247", is what, some guys look a like news outlet?

Jan 2019, same thing happened, OMG, Australian trade indicated as suffering the most
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-australia-coal-idUSKCN1PQ3QE

2017
https://fr.reuters.com/article/us-shipping-china-jam-idUSKBN1EE0ZD
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
This whole saga, regardless of whether it is driven by diplomatic posturing or self-sufficiency concerns, makes the point that we simply cannot rely on mining exports of low-labour natural resources to drive economic growth. The global economy is contracting, and it is doubtful that it will recover to pre-COVID levels for a long time. Moaning by our political elite about what China is or isn’t doing isn’t going to change any off these facts.

I do not think we can simply swap trading partners, and start offloading all these exports to India. It’s an entirely different economy, has very different needs and demands to China, and so a simple ‘switch’ isn’t possible. Has India ever indicated an interest in importing the vast amount of coal, iron ore, or some such that we export to China? So why would we expect that we can just switch over? The fact t
Hat we are so incredibly reliant on a few exports of basic mineral products should be a real wake-up call that we need to diversify our exports. It’s an indictment on politicians of all stripes that nobody had bothered to properly consider just how exposed this keeps would be when the demand for one of those products would disappear. Sometimes it’s difficult not to wonder if anybody is actually at
The helm of the ship
ElliotProvis
For me the issue is that we're at end-stage neo-Thatcherism and there was never any plan for what we were going to do when we got to this point - there's simply no plan beyond privatisation, asset-stripping and off-shoring for the domestic economy and selling minerals and energy to whoever will buy it. We're finding that out now with China restricting our products in their country despite the signing of a so-called "free-trade" agreement with us - they're a communist dictatorship and they do whatever they want regardless of some bit of paper that Jo Hockey and Tony Abbott were trumpeting a few years back. Turned out to be completely meaningless didn't it because we were the only ones adhering to our side of the agreement.

In order to 'diversify our exports' we'd need to go back thirty or forty years to when Hawke/Keating decided on our collective behalf that we weren't going to compete with Asia on anything that had labour in it or was value-added and that all our industries needed to be exposed to the ruthless and unfair trade practices of the developing world. So we asked our car industry workers (for example) to compete with people whose average wage ranged between $3-$5 an hour with very little in the way of public or private investment to help them keep up. The result was inevitable and now we don't have a sophisticated manufacturing base to try and revitalize at time when we so desperately need it - the capacity to do all that complicated stuff was told to get off-shore years ago.

Really I think the only hope we actually have of averting a mass-unemployment catastrophe is to allow the AU$ to fall hard and quickly - as it probably will anyway with our biggest trading partner banning our exports - and then try and help all those industries that we so enthusiastically off-shored over the last few decades to come back home. This is going to be very inflationary as we import most of our consumption now-days but I really don't see any other choice if we are going to avoid 3-4 million unemployed. We also need to stop punishing industry with extremely high power and gas prices, reserving a substantial amount of our own gas for domestic use - but unfortunately the only politician in parliament who has had the sense to call for this is Pauline Hanson so I don't imagine that happening any time soon.

We've all been conned by this neo-Thatcherist idea that we could get by selling houses to each other, doing each other's hair and nails and shoveling anything we could dig out of the ground to willing buyers off shore. Those days are over and we need another paradigm to take over.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This whole saga, regardless of whether it is driven by diplomatic posturing or self-sufficiency concerns, makes the point that we simply cannot rely on mining exports of low-labour natural resources to drive economic growth. The global economy is contracting, and it is doubtful that it will recover to pre-COVID levels for a long time. Moaning by our political elite about what China is or isn’t doing isn’t going to change any off these facts.

I do not think we can simply swap trading partners, and start offloading all these exports to India. It’s an entirely different economy, has very different needs and demands to China, and so a simple ‘switch’ isn’t possible. Has India ever indicated an interest in importing the vast amount of coal, iron ore, or some such that we export to China? So why would we expect that we can just switch over? The fact t
Hat we are so incredibly reliant on a few exports of basic mineral products should be a real wake-up call that we need to diversify our exports. It’s an indictment on politicians of all stripes that nobody had bothered to properly consider just how exposed this keeps would be when the demand for one of those products would disappear. Sometimes it’s difficult not to wonder if anybody is actually at
The helm of the ship
ElliotProvis
The "swap" comment referenced something that happens all the time at sea where cargo's are diverted as industry's shuffle their logistics requirements and in some cases political fall out. Yes we have done it with a country we currently do not have any political ties with so its all possible.

If China stops buying just Australian coal/iron ore suddenly, then they will drive up spot prices for other suppliers, meanwhile Australia shippers spot prices will decline. Guess what other non-Chinese buyers will do?

Yes, diversification should be a long-term goal.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
2013 called, wanting it's car industry back.
It closed in 2016/2017
Whoosh!
The rot started long before that, we have been now this pathway before or do you and Wombat  also part of the problem need a history lesson again?
Go right ahead with another one of your opinionated diatribes - I won't read it anyway like most of your stuff.

You're quite simply hopeless at constructing any sort of a sound, logical argument - that's the core of the problem. And you think that your opinions are the same thing as facts -which they're not. Recall how you started out arguing that inflation had been killed by modern technology? Then you changed it so that it had been killed for all time by the destruction of the union movement in Australia. And then you gave up altogether because you couldn't pull a single, solitary fact out that supported either of those claims.

So yeah - go ahead and give us your totally fact-free golden wisdom about the destruction of the Australian car industry again. It'll be really insightful and interesting...
don_dunstan
"your opinionated diatribes" - what the hell do you think you post all the time?

"I won't read it anyway like most of your stuff." - You do, all the bloody time and how many times have you said you don't? And then you say you don't then comment I didn't reply to you (because I couldn't be ar$ed as you will go round in circles and then divert off as soon as you are concerned onto something unrelated), so not only do you read, you are waiting for a response. Please, make up your mind.

Inflation has been killed by the modern economy, do I need to state it again? I never changed anything.  Reasons
- Reduced union influence
- Overall reduction in union based roles with more white collar/SME type roles
- Reduction and Removal of regulated payrises to performance driven including supply and demand
- Elimination of many skilled shortages through imported labour
- Outsourcing of govt departments to SME's and contract
- Greater control over the economy
- Off-shoring high cost materials with lower cost import
- Longterm reduction in cost of oil and oil based products.
- Automation

Is this an Australian trend, no, its global, look around.

Your reference to car industry, lets start with
- Ford wanted to go for a decade or more, god we all knew Ford looked at leaving before the AU.
- Holden was closed by the GM CEO in response to Obama directive.
- Toyota was looking to leave for a few years but didn't want to rock the boat with Hilux and Landcruiser sales.

The Australian car industry was surviving on making mostly cars for a specialized market that ceased to exist and cannot compete on global platform models. Likewise similar global models that were made here have either ceased to exist (Cruz) or in decline globally (Camry) due to changes in market.

Since the Australian industry closed, so has how many others in western Countries Don? How's the US car industry going despite Trump's war on Mexico and Canada Don? The only Sedan is growth is the one you detest, the rest are gone or going unless its a SUV, big 4x4 or EV. Even the Mustang is to be built on a SUV platform! Gone are the days when making less than 100,000 models a year from the one production line is viable.

But Don the key point is, as you and likely Wombat have not made a contribution to the Australian car industry for at least the 10 years prior to its closing, who was the industry supposedly making cars for Don? Your not buying them, so how do you expect them to be made here Don? A bit hypocritical don't you think Don? Oh what was your answer, tariff the imports, so lets make cars even more expensive for other just because you won't buy one? The hypocrisy continues? Yes you and Wombat wanted Tony Abbott to force Australian Tax payer dollars into the hands of multi national car companies to force them to make cars you won't buy!!! Australian of the year, good one Don!

As you won't be reading this, I suppose its irrelevant that I tell you (again) that my previous car was a new Aussie made 2011 Aurion and I wasn't even living in the country. Oh what was that, I'm not in the country so I don't know whats going on?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I can give an opinion on macro-economic issues - that's what I was doing earlier. But you specifically said that our low inflation was due to (either) 'technology' or 'dead unions' - and then you couldn't produce a shred of evidence to support that statement. The stuff you rattled off above is still just opinion, Shane - you can't discern between facts and opinion - this is something that I've repeated to you ad infinitum and you still don't seem to understand.

It's like your explanation as to what killed the car industry, it's entirely based on what you think happened and completely ignores the policy factors like the Button Report and the rapid reduction in tariffs. You deliberately ignore things that don't suit your narrative because you've already formed an opinion and you're not willing to include any new or conflicting data into the equation.
  SAR520SMBH Train Controller

You deliberately ignore things that don't suit your narrative because you've already formed an opinion and you're not willing to include any new or conflicting data into the equation.
Sounds much like yourself don!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I can give an opinion on macro-economic issues - that's what I was doing earlier. But you specifically said that our low inflation was due to (either) 'technology' or 'dead unions' - and then you couldn't produce a shred of evidence to support that statement. The stuff you rattled off above is still just opinion, Shane - you can't discern between facts and opinion - this is something that I've repeated to you ad infinitum and you still don't seem to understand.

It's like your explanation as to what killed the car industry, it's entirely based on what you think happened and completely ignores the policy factors like the Button Report and the rapid reduction in tariffs. You deliberately ignore things that don't suit your narrative because you've already formed an opinion and you're not willing to include any new or conflicting data into the equation.
don_dunstan
Don,
- 100% of everything posted here by everyone and especially yours is an opinion.
- You haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary on inflation
https://econofact.org/why-is-inflation-so-low#:~:text=The%20Facts%3A,mattering%20in%20certain%20time%20periods.

Difference between Fact and Opinion
Opinion - "I won't read it anyway like most of your stuff."
Fact - You do anyway

Button Report was how many decades prior and do you really believe anything would have changed?  Do you really think we could continue to make cars with production runs of 25,000 - 50,000 units a year, which is the bulk of our car manufacturing history when today very absolute minimum for mid-priced  car is 100,000 and economy class >200,000 units per year off the same production line. Even the Mustang isn't viable on its own anymore and now just a shell on another platform.

Reduction in Tariff's didn't change people's choice in cars from a Commodore to a imported Hilux Don. The market changed and the industry didn't and wasn't viable to do so.

Lets look at some fact's Don.
2019, highest selling car Hilux, 47,000 units, No.2 Ranger at 41,000 units. No.3 Corolla 30,000 units. #10 is less than 21,000 units.

Now compare this to some of the leading model production lines globally. Now compare this to the models in the USA that have been cancelled in recent years and their assembly lines closed. Meanwhile the Toyota plant in USA that makes the Camry makes over 350,000 units per year.

A typical car assembly line producing 20 cars /hr (some are now 30 units per hour), 16h a day, 6 day a week, 52 weeks a year is 100,000 units. What you are supporting is assembly lines producing 25,000 units per year, so your solution is to build an industry on part-time workers because there isn't enough work for them to work 40h a week? Hardly economic is it? These production numbers do not support the economic production of a car assembly line for these models without exports. How do you export if your cost base is too high and protected by tariffs?


While the badge engineering concept was clearly a failure at the time, its ironic that today, this is fast becoming a industry standard although in a far more subtle way. However the intent was to raise the quality standards of the local content (which was at times shocking), but also boost production volumes into a global competitive range.

Once again Don, i find it ironic that someone can be trying so hard to drive up the cost of ownership and reduce the range choice to force people to buy Australian made cars when you yourself haven't yourself supported the industry. Did I tell you my current car while not made in Australia was designed in Australia, what about yours Don?



  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Don,
- 100% of everything posted here by everyone and especially yours is an opinion.
- You haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary on inflation
RTT_Rules
Yeah but you're trying to construct an argument about something in which case you need to resort to bolstering that argument with facts. And what you posted still doesn't support your thesis that technology and/or the demise of unions had anything to do with it.
Difference between Fact and Opinion Opinion - "I won't read it anyway like most of your stuff." Fact - You do anyway
RTT_Rules
Because in this instance you're continuing to directly address me. But if I saw a long diatribe in another thread about something I'd probably skim past it as I normally do because it's just more RTT_Rules heresay and speculation.

I tend to read most people's post here but not yours - sad but true.
Button Report was how many decades prior and do you really believe anything would have changed?
RTT_Rules
This is the fundamental point that you still don't get - there was a report commissioned at the highest levels of government that identified the car industry as surplus to requirements and wound back tariffs far too quickly for the industry to be able to adapt and compete properly. It was a matter of government policy initiated by Hawke/Keating and continued by Howard. The fact that it doesn't sink through to you that it was actually an implemented government policy and not market forces that doomed it shows what a lost cause it is trying to discuss this with you.
Reduction in Tariff's didn't change people's choice in cars from a Commodore to a imported Hilux Don.
RTT_Rules
Another thing that you don't get - price has everything to do with the way consumers choose things. If Thai-made Hiluxes had remained with punitive tariffs on them to punish the Thais for not adhering to their side of the Thai/Australia "free-trade" agreement signed by Howard in 2003 then Ford might still be here today because the Falcon ute would have been a lot cheaper and better able to compete with the $3 an hour workers in Thailand.

Price is EVERYTHING, that's why Aussie car industry workers had no hope right from the start when Button told them they'd have to compete with workers doing the same job for a fraction of the price in Asia. That whole industry was doomed from the Button Report onward.

I really can't be bothered arguing with you anymore, Shane, you have already made up your mind about what happened and frankly there's no point in continuing this conversation.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You deliberately ignore things that don't suit your narrative because you've already formed an opinion and you're not willing to include any new or conflicting data into the equation.
Sounds much like yourself don!
SAR520SMBH
Yeah but at least I'm entertaining and better with actually constructing an argument.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You deliberately ignore things that don't suit your narrative because you've already formed an opinion and you're not willing to include any new or conflicting data into the equation.
Sounds much like yourself don!
Yeah but at least I'm entertaining and better with actually constructing an argument.
don_dunstan
Yeah, after a few rounds back and forwards you try and convince yourself blue is red.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Don,
- 100% of everything posted here by everyone and especially yours is an opinion.
- You haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary on inflation
Yeah but you're trying to construct an argument about something in which case you need to resort to bolstering that argument with facts. And what you posted still doesn't support your thesis that technology and/or the demise of unions had anything to do with it.
Difference between Fact and Opinion Opinion - "I won't read it anyway like most of your stuff." Fact - You do anyway
Because in this instance you're continuing to directly address me. But if I saw a long diatribe in another thread about something I'd probably skim past it as I normally do because it's just more RTT_Rules heresay and speculation.

I tend to read most people's post here but not yours - sad but true.
Button Report was how many decades prior and do you really believe anything would have changed?
This is the fundamental point that you still don't get - there was a report commissioned at the highest levels of government that identified the car industry as surplus to requirements and wound back tariffs far too quickly for the industry to be able to adapt and compete properly. It was a matter of government policy initiated by Hawke/Keating and continued by Howard. The fact that it doesn't sink through to you that it was actually an implemented government policy and not market forces that doomed it shows what a lost cause it is trying to discuss this with you.
Reduction in Tariff's didn't change people's choice in cars from a Commodore to a imported Hilux Don.
Another thing that you don't get - price has everything to do with the way consumers choose things. If Thai-made Hiluxes had remained with punitive tariffs on them to punish the Thais for not adhering to their side of the Thai/Australia "free-trade" agreement signed by Howard in 2003 then Ford might still be here today because the Falcon ute would have been a lot cheaper and better able to compete with the $3 an hour workers in Thailand.

Price is EVERYTHING, that's why Aussie car industry workers had no hope right from the start when Button told them they'd have to compete with workers doing the same job for a fraction of the price in Asia. That whole industry was doomed from the Button Report onward.

I really can't be bothered arguing with you anymore, Shane, you have already made up your mind about what happened and frankly there's no point in continuing this conversation.
don_dunstan
You read all my posts, you cannot help yourself and as soon as I don't reply to one of yours you are on to me.

Inflation, believe what you like. Go with all the conspiracy theories you like. I always find it amazing that you like to put Australia in a box and then completely ignore the same or similar trends in the rest of the developed world.

Show me where the govt saw the "car industry as surplus to requirements".

The car industry had 33 years from Button Plan to closure. How long does it take to sort out QA and working conditions? Most of the workers in the industry during the Button Plan implementation would have retired before the car industry closed.

You simply don't get it do you. People stopped buying Falcon Utes because they didn't want that type of car anymore. I've had a Hilux, Courier and Ranger because that's the car I wanted, not a Falcon ute. As these old work utes were developed in a family car, no one wanted the old 2 door, 2WD utes anymore. They died what 15 years prior to closure.

You want to compete, American auto workers earn US$16 -20/h, A$62kpa, what was Australian auto assembly line wages and even on those wages the USA cannot compete with most of its smaller models. This is why the unions accepted 50% wage cuts and even then how many assembly lines have still closed since Don?

You are dreaming if you think a Ford Falcon Ute would be cheaper than a Hilux considering the Falcon is a 2 door and 2WD. This includes the 5% import tariff and over seas transport costs.

One more time Don, again lets stick to facts. If you want to make a car today, your assembly line needs to output of 100k units pa for medium priced cars and 200k units pa for base smaller models and there is no way in hell you can achieve this without exports Don! This was the intent of the Button plan, to boost production volumes of local made to international volumes to be competitive Don.

Yes the Button Plan failed Don, and it failed for one reason and YOU are part of the problem of why it failed not buying Australian made cars.  If nothing else you know I'm 100% write here especially since did and later after locally assembly stopped I continued to buy Australian designed. What have you done Don?

I really can't be bothered arguing with you anymore, Shane, you have already made up your mind about what happened and frankly there's no point in continuing this conversation.

You have said this before and I'm still waiting, you have always made up your mind on any topic from your first post.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I'm 100% write here
RTT_Rules
Snigger Laughing
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

China doesn't want to give us money to buy our new wizz bang missiles that can be used against them .
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
China doesn't want to give us money to buy our new wizz bang missiles that can be used against them .
Richard stroker
In my opinion there's no point in trying to appease them because they've already decided what they're going to do.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm 100% write here
Snigger Laughing
BrentonGolding
I didn't bother reading it this time - just a quick skim confirms it's just the same stuff he always 'rights'.

It was a policy decision to off-shore all the manufacturing taken by both sides of politics. It could have been viable and still going today but the powers that be didn't want it here any longer.

Now suddenly they realise that there's going to be 2 million plus unemployed after all this welfare runs out they're desperately trying to figure out where they're going to hide all those people? Cry me a river - this thing has been in planning for the last 30-40 years and there's nothing that can prevent it.

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