The corona virus COVID-19

 
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
If the people want the state open, it is his job to act on that.
"KRviator"
So if I can round up enough people to support me, I'm going to tell him that we want to drive on the right hand side of the road, and it will be his job to see to it. Yeah; right. His job is to govern as the parliament sees fit. Your remedy, if you don't like it, is the ballot box in November 2022.

Should just have a referendum on it, like they did for the gay marriage thing. "Do you want Australia to have open domestic borders, and no restrictions except international travel?" Yes or no. 50.00000001% of the votes needed to decide.
"KRviator"
Fine. Let's get the ball rolling now, and by the time that any necessary parliamentary approval is given, the Electoral Commission cranked up, ballot papers printed and distributed, voting places organised, poll clerks and returning officers appointed, holidays avoided et al, it will be next February at the earliest.

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  djf01 Chief Commissioner


Should just have a referendum on it, like they did for the gay marriage thing. "Do you want Australia to have open domestic borders, and no restrictions except international travel?" Yes or no. 50.00000001% of the votes needed to decide.
Valvegear

"Do you want an Australia with no COVID restrictions at all AND no COVID?"  99.9% of people say yes, therefore it's complete failure of any politician for failing to deliver either of those objectives.

It doesn't worry me anymore as I'm immune.   /s
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
It doesn't worry me anymore as I'm immune.
djf01
You and Donald Trump. I don't know how he knows he's immune; how do you know that you are?

Incidentally; you have attributed that quote to me instead of KRviator.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
"Do you want an Australia with no COVID restrictions at all AND no COVID?"  99.9% of people say yes, therefore it's complete failure of any politician for failing to deliver either of those objectives.

It doesn't worry me anymore as I'm immune.   /s
djf01
Not sure which one of us that Q was directed at, but if it was me the answer is: I want Australia's response to COVID to be the way it has responded to every other mortality risk factor. Yes, COVID is contagious, yes, it presents a risk of death if you have other risk factors, yes, it probably would kill 10-15,000 (mostly elderly) , Citizens if we did nothing at all.

But the response to COVID is now proving to be worse than the virus itself - and not just the financial cost.

The budget deficit is going to take generations to pay off. We have hundreds of thousands of people out of work, and that list is growing every day. Friends & relatives are essentially under house arrest and we have little-old-ladies being arrested by storm-troopers in the park. You can now be arrested and charged for merely planning an anti-government demonstration, yet alone actually participating in one!

That is not Australia.

Sweden recorded 4,919 deaths (out of 45,354 cases) as at June 08, and 5,916 (out of 106,380 cases) as at October 19, a period of 4 months. In that time they had an increase of 2.3x the number of cases, yet only 0.25x the number of deaths, with no significant restrictions, AIUI.

FWIW, I couldn't give a rats asre about COVID, or catching the damn thing. I am happy to take as many precautions as I deem necessary to try to avoid it. But I'm not prepared to lose my job, my house or my families livelihood to try to protect someone who would, in all likelihood have died from a bad flu season anyway. That doesn't make sense.

But we, as citizens, don't have that choice anymore, do we? I can't go to work because Mark McGowan won't open his state border until there has been zero community transmission - not just "transmission from unknown sources" - in any state in Australia for 28 days. Anna-Stayaway in Qld is at least sensible about that part, they include the caveat "from unknown sources" in their 28-day timeframe.

Does anyone really think we can achieve that? If the answer is "No", then what purpose to any of the ongoing restrictions achieve?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

There's some concerning studies about how 70-80% of those who have had Covid-19 now have heart disease.  The question is whether this is temporary or permanent damage.

I'm currently reading a book on the Roman Empire in the mid-2nd century and the impact of the Antonine Plague of 165-180 A.D (most likely Small-Pox) had on an empire that was wealthy, prosperous, had extensive trade across the world, and at its peak.  So many interesting parallels to today to be honest.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

It doesn't worry me anymore as I'm immune.
You and Donald Trump. I don't know how he knows he's immune; how do you know that you are?
Valvegear

He knows, that's good enough for me.  /s  /s
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There's some concerning studies about how 70-80% of those who have had Covid-19 now have heart disease.  The question is whether this is temporary or permanent damage.

I'm currently reading a book on the Roman Empire in the mid-2nd century and the impact of the Antonine Plague of 165-180 A.D (most likely Small-Pox) had on an empire that was wealthy, prosperous, had extensive trade across the world, and at its peak.  So many interesting parallels to today to be honest.
Carnot
I find 70-80% to be very high going by the people I've known over here to get it.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

Not sure which one of us that Q was directed at, but if it was me the answer is: I want Australia's response to COVID to be the way it has responded to every other mortality risk factor. Yes, COVID is contagious, yes, it presents a risk of death if you have other risk factors, yes, it probably would kill 10-15,000 (mostly elderly) , Citizens if we did nothing at all.

But the response to COVID is now proving to be worse than the virus itself - and not just the financial cost.

The budget deficit is going to take generations to pay off. We have hundreds of thousands of people out of work, and that list is growing every day. Friends & relatives are essentially under house arrest and we have little-old-ladies being arrested by storm-troopers in the park. You can now be arrested and charged for merely planning an anti-government demonstration, yet alone actually participating in one!

That is not Australia.

Sweden recorded 4,919 deaths (out of 45,354 cases) as at June 08, and 5,916 (out of 106,380 cases) as at October 19, a period of 4 months. In that time they had an increase of 2.3x the number of cases, yet only 0.25x the number of deaths, with no significant restrictions, AIUI.

FWIW, I couldn't give a rats asre about COVID, or catching the damn thing. I am happy to take as many precautions as I deem necessary to try to avoid it. But I'm not prepared to lose my job, my house or my families livelihood to try to protect someone who would, in all likelihood have died from a bad flu season anyway. That doesn't make sense.

But we, as citizens, don't have that choice anymore, do we? I can't go to work because Mark McGowan won't open his state border until there has been zero community transmission - not just "transmission from unknown sources" - in any state in Australia for 28 days. Anna-Stayaway in Qld is at least sensible about that part, they include the caveat "from unknown sources" in their 28-day timeframe.

Does anyone really think we can achieve that? If the answer is "No", then what purpose to any of the ongoing restrictions achieve?
KRviator
The death rate is certainly decreasing and a sign that the severity of getting the virus has improved dramatically since March. However its not the same in every country getting its so called 2nd and 3rd waves. France has almost no increase in deaths in its 2nd wave, larger than the first.

Regarding WA, I thought it would be extremely obvious what McGowan is doing over there and he has huge support from his voters in doing so. Its called something like, "in country value adding". The GCC countries are doing the same and Australia on the whole has done the same to the outside world. Basically people who are FIFO can move here, live here, spend your money here or F__O_ and your job will go to a local. OR simply, you are no longer invited, thanks!

If say 1000 FIFO roles in WA go from interstate to local employment, that's at least 1000 less people in WA not unemployed plus indirect spending.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I dreamt of Jesus Christ, who said to me: My son, you've been praying everyday according to the Bible.  I can actualize a wish for you.  I said: I wish to have a high speed rail between Melbourne & Sydney, with a top speed of 350 km/h, completing the journey in 2.5 hours.  Jesus: No, the topography is too difficult, and there isn't enough demand for me to get to work on it.  Do you have a different wish?  Me: I wish to achieve COVID-normal tomorrow.  Jesus: Just a second, let me have another look at your proposal on the high speed rail.
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
At some point, i do agree that we are going to have to learn to live with the virus, because both the economy and peoples mental health will not be able to take repeated yoyoing in and out of harsh lockdowns for potentially years to come. Here is how we can do it:

- Mandate capacity limits for all enclosed spaces.
- Mandate social distancing for all open spaces.
- Mandate contact tracing for all retail, hospitality, and entertainment venues.
- Mandate closure of a property for deep cleaning whenever a confirmed case is recorded there.
- Mandate the prepayment of 14 days hotel quarantine upon return from an overseas trip.
- Mandate 14 days of self isolation for whoever has been diagnosed with coronavirus.
- Mandate the wearing of masks and the use of hand sanitizer in aged care homes, disability care homes / medical centres.
- Provide Aged and Disability pensioner supplements for these high risk people to fund face masks, hand sanitizer, grocery delivery / taxi rides.
- Provide schools and workplaces the authority to send home a student or an employee who presents with flu like symptoms.

Is there anything else that we should add to the new covid normal list?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
At some point, i do agree that we are going to have to learn to live with the virus, because both the economy and peoples mental health will not be able to take repeated yoyoing in and out of harsh lockdowns for potentially years to come. Here is how we can do it:

- Mandate capacity limits for all enclosed spaces.
- Mandate social distancing for all open spaces.
- Mandate contact tracing for all retail, hospitality, and entertainment venues.
- Mandate closure of a property for deep cleaning whenever a confirmed case is recorded there.
- Mandate the prepayment of 14 days hotel quarantine upon return from an overseas trip.
- Mandate 14 days of self isolation for whoever has been diagnosed with coronavirus.
- Mandate the wearing of masks and the use of hand sanitizer in aged care homes, disability care homes / medical centres.
- Provide Aged and Disability pensioner supplements for these high risk people to fund face masks, hand sanitizer, grocery delivery / taxi rides.
- Provide schools and workplaces the authority to send home a student or an employee who presents with flu like symptoms.

Is there anything else that we should add to the new covid normal list?
Gayspie
Mandate the prepayment of 14 days hotel quarantine upon return from an overseas trip.
Already is and its unreasonable, not the cost, the process. Its completely unnecessary. Neg test to board the flight, get tested on arrival, overnight stay in hotel wait for result, and mandatory test 10 days later wearing a tracker in between.

The prepayment is BS, the current practice is payment on departure and if you cannot afford it there is a repayment plan.

Some countries have now undertaken more CV-19 tests than head of population, why is Australia still around 1/3?
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Regarding WA, I thought it would be extremely obvious what McGowan is doing over there and he has huge support from his voters in doing so. Its called something like, "in country value adding". The GCC countries are doing the same and Australia on the whole has done the same to the outside world. Basically people who are FIFO can move here, live here, spend your money here or F__O_ and your job will go to a local. OR simply, you are no longer invited, thanks!

If say 1000 FIFO roles in WA go from interstate to local employment, that's at least 1000 less people in WA not unemployed plus indirect spending.
RTT_Rules
It is blatantly obvious what he's doing, no argument from me. The problem is you can't just pick up a bunch of qualified Driver's, Marine Pilots, helicopter LAME's or other specialties and say that. Sparkies, chippies or plant/pit operators, certainly, but specialised trades? Nope.

If they had enough of the local WA workforce who were prepared to actually do the job in the first place they would never have needed an interstate FIFO system. But the simple fact is, people in WA don't want to do the job, don't want to work the roster, or don't want to live in Hedland, Karratha, Newman, et al. Though I have been to Tom Price and that's a nice little town, if somewhat isolated...

Basically people who are FIFO can move here, live here, spend your money here or F__O_ and your job will go to a local. OR simply, you are no longer invited, thanks!
RTT_Rules
That's what he's trying to do, but that's against our Constitution S.92 for "freedom of interstate trade/commerce" and S.117 which says, in effect, you can't be punished for not living in a state (though the practical effects ie voting, are a caveat).
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Victorian Police Minister Lisa Neville has been ordered to submit a sworn statement to the hotel quarantine inquiry about a call she received from the Premier’s private office in the crucial minutes when the use of private security was decided.

(herald sun)
  Carnot Minister for Railways
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Another almost successful escape from Victoria to SA by freight train:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/alleged-victorian-freight-train-stowaway-arrested-in-adelaide/12798950
Carnot
I'd argue it was a completely successful escape from Victoria. That he was arrested by the Fuzz in Adelaide proves he got out and wasn't shot by the Storm Troopers while crossing the border.

There's a lesson in that though - Once you're over the border, don't stay on the train. If you make it all the way to AFT, you've done it wrong...Laughing
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Clicking on both gets me "blank - blocked".
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Europe is in the fully fledged 2nd waves of the virus now, and the death's are climbing as well, hospitals are starting to become overwhelmed again, so this means that lockdowns either fully or partial are having to be implemented again, I fear that the situation will become a lot worse as well before it gets better, with a long European Winter ahead.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Europe is in the fully fledged 2nd waves of the virus now, and the death's are climbing as well, hospitals are starting to become overwhelmed again, so this means that lockdowns either fully or partial are having to be implemented again, I fear that the situation will become a lot worse as well before it gets better, with a long European Winter ahead.
lsrailfan
Some Country's yes, others no.

France's 2nd wave is alot bigger, but almost no change on death rate from low infection numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

No idea about hospitals
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Some Country's yes, others no.
RTT_Rules"
The plural of country is countries. Country's is singular possessive.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Some Country's yes, others no.
The plural of country is countries. Country's is singular possessive.
Valvegear
Few these days speak English and fewer can write English.
The difference between plural and possessive is lost on so many these days.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Europe is in the fully fledged 2nd waves of the virus now, and the death's are climbing as well, hospitals are starting to become overwhelmed again, so this means that lockdowns either fully or partial are having to be implemented again, I fear that the situation will become a lot worse as well before it gets better, with a long European Winter ahead.
Some Country's yes, others no.

France's 2nd wave is alot bigger, but almost no change on death rate from low infection numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

No idea about hospitals
RTT_Rules
Most countries.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Some Country's yes, others no.
The plural of country is countries. Country's is singular possessive.
Valvegear
Or it could have been the contractive apostrophe, as in “Some country is yes...”

That post actually says a lot about the level of attention to offer his posts. Capitalising random Words that you Think are Important despite not being proper nouns is something usually stamped out in the early years of secondary school.
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Regarding the coronavirus restriction enforcement provisions at Airports;

- Airports are federally owned land.
- Federal laws apply on airport land.
- The Federal Police have the authority to enforce federal laws at the airport.

The constitutional heads of power for the above three points are as follows:

- Nationhood power (International Airports are essential for any nation who wishes to remain connected to the world).
- Interstate commerce power (Domestic flights are in themselves facilitators of interstate commerce).
- Power to buy, sell, and manage land for public purposes (The government needs to do this to execute the above two powers).

An example of this in practise:

- People driving down to Adelaide Airport many decades ago just to have a meal and a beer on Sunday because state law at the time specified that alcohol is not to be served or sold on Sunday but federal law overrides state law on federal land.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

It is, however, routine for AFP and state police forces to work cooperatively at airports just as they do in other locations where AFP are the ‘guest’ force.

As was posted a couple of pages back, it’s in the interests of everyone involved to come up with a better system than setting up roadblocks at the airport exits,

Speaking of aviation regulation though, has CASA approved Dan Andrews’ plan to have police flying drones in populated areas spying on people sitting in their backyards?

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