A good news story for local manufacturing.  Like the photo on what likes the test track.

The road to 100

Does anyone know when the 58 will start to get E Class trams? I heard that it would be ideal to put some on that line before the massive Upfield line shutdown?

Does anyone know when the 58 will start to get E Class trams? I heard that it would be ideal to put some on that line before the massive Upfield line shutdown?

The official line at the moment looks like  possibly may next year at this stage.

It appears to be a long and winding road. Using VicSig’s in-service dates, the following is the number of E2-Class delivered in each of the last three FY:
FY 17/18 – 13
FY 18/19 – 12
FY 19/20 –   8

There seems to be some debate as to whether the order is for 90 or 100 trams (50 x E-Class & 40 - 50 x E2-Class). E2.6086 is the latest tram in service, so, if the order is for 90, it leaves only 4 more to enter service.

It appears to be a long and winding road. Using VicSig’s in-service dates, the following is the number of E2-Class delivered in each of the last three FY:
FY 17/18 – 13
FY 18/19 – 12
FY 19/20 –   8

There seems to be some debate as to whether the order is for 90 or 100 trams (50 x E-Class & 40 - 50 x E2-Class). E2.6086 is the latest tram in service, so, if the order is for 90, it leaves only 4 more to enter service.

I'm trying to remember where I saw it but Bombadier were, supposed to be, in process of assembling 6091 a month or more ago which points to 100, as does the title of the article and, also, the fifth paragraph which states "now approaching production of the 100th E-Class vehicle"

Neil

The Initial order was for 50 E-Class trams. From the time Labor came back in 2014, the following numbers of E2-Class have been ordered in the budgets:
2015 – 20
2016 – Nil
2017 – 10 (Budget Overview states total order is 80)
2018 – Nil
2019 – 10 (Budget Overview states “………………design and develop Next Generation Trams”)

In the lead up to the 2018 November Election, ie after the 2018 Budget, the then Minister for Public Transport promised the purchase of 10 E2-Class trams, yet only 10 were ordered in the 2019 Budget. As far as budgets go, only 90 have been ordered. Obviously, the 2020 Budget has yet to be handed down. It remains to be seen.

With Alstom taking over Bombardier, I hope it doesn't mean the abrupt end of E class trams, we're still 200 short.

Not to mention Vlocitys, I can't see V/Line passengers being too impressed with diesel-powered X'Traps.

The Initial order was for 50 E-Class trams. From the time Labor came back in 2014, the following numbers of E2-Class have been ordered in the budgets:
2015 – 20
2016 – Nil
2017 – 10 (Budget Overview states total order is 80)
2018 – Nil
2019 – 10 (Budget Overview states “………………design and develop Next Generation Trams”)

In the lead up to the 2018 November Election, ie after the 2018 Budget, the then Minister for Public Transport promised the purchase of 10 E2-Class trams, yet only 10 were ordered in the 2019 Budget. As far as budgets go, only 90 have been ordered. Obviously, the 2020 Budget has yet to be handed down. It remains to be seen.

From the Transport Victoria website

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/new-train-and-tram-orders
talks about 50 E2 deliveries (by 2020 which ain't happening) - this isn't the site that I saw 6091, supposedly, being assembled

Neil

Vicsig just updated its tram fleet listing section, showing 6089 entering service today, with 6090 as the only tram under "ordered" status.  6091 to 6100 are non-existent.

Sorry to say that Vicsig isn't always the most accurate source of information, nor the most up-to-date. It's lagged in updating regularly over the last few years, and, yes, I appreciate that it is a volunteer run site and I'm not bagging them for that, I'm sure they are doing their best with limited resources, however, the Dep't of Transport website on the other hand is a professional one with a direct connection to vehicle orders and government decisions. The fact that their website says the following would contradict Vicsig with some authority:

"Project status

All 50 trams are expected to be delivered by 2020, bringing the total E-Class fleet to 100 trams."

The completion date has, probably, been made inaccurate by Covid-19 but the page was updated as recently as September 20. It also says at the top of the page that over 180 vehicles have been ordered since 2015 which taking into account 47 V'locity, 65 HCMT, 24 X'trap and 50 E2 equals 186. Reduce the E2 to 40 and you end up short at 176.
I'm still searching for the picture, I'm sure, I saw of 6091 under construction, without success so far but if/when I re-discover it I'll post the link.

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/new-train-and-tram-orders#Eclass2

Neil

I've finally found the reference to more than 90 E & E2 and it is actually in the article referred to in the first post of this thread!

It's not a photo, as I thought, but a reference by the Oz/NZ President of Bombadier. I think she ought to know what she is talking about, in that role. If she doesn't, then Alstom are in trouble with their acquisition of Bombadier underway.

“We’re in production up to 91, well on the way up to 100 with the E-Class. That’s a big achievement and we can’t do that without our customer the Department of Transport and the State government, as well as a lot of hard work and dedication from our partners in the supply chain,” said McMillan."
That statement was published in July so we ought to see 6090 and 6091 on rails soon. Vicsig will need to update their E2 page soon.

https://www.railexpress.com.au/wendy-mcmillan-bombardiers-road-100-e-class-trams/

Neil

Vicsig has completely deleted ordered ones from its list, so even 6090 doesn't show.

Vicsig has completely deleted ordered ones from its list, so even 6090 doesn't show.

6090 is at the very bottom.

You are right.  If you click the current fleet and scroll down, you see 6089 as the last, but if you click E2 class, 6090 is displayed.

Sorry to say that Vicsig isn't always the most accurate source of information, nor the most up-to-date. It's lagged in updating regularly over the last few years, and, yes, I appreciate that it is a volunteer run site and I'm not bagging them for that, I'm sure they are doing their best with limited resources, however, the Dep't of Transport website on the other hand is a professional one with a direct connection to vehicle orders and government decisions. The fact that their website says the following would contradict Vicsig with some authority:

……………………………………………………………………………………………..

It’s not just VicSig. The Budget papers only show total orders for 90. Perhaps 6091 might be from the Next Generation Tram allocation. It remains to be seen.

Sorry to say that Vicsig isn't always the most accurate source of information, nor the most up-to-date. It's lagged in updating regularly over the last few years, and, yes, I appreciate that it is a volunteer run site and I'm not bagging them for that, I'm sure they are doing their best with limited resources, however, the Dep't of Transport website on the other hand is a professional one with a direct connection to vehicle orders and government decisions. The fact that their website says the following would contradict Vicsig with some authority:

……………………………………………………………………………………………..

It’s not just VicSig. The Budget papers only show total orders for 90. Perhaps 6091 might be from the Next Generation Tram allocation. It remains to be seen.

re-read my last post

Neil

An interesting development is the introduction of E class trams on route 30 from 8 November 2020 along with some other timetable changes.

https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/footer/about-ptv/improvements-and-projects/tram/changes-to-routes-12-30-35-86-96-and-109/

You have to wonder whether the idea of using them on route 58 has been quietly dropped?

It seems that they are changing the timetable on route 30 to suit E class, which indicates that YT is well aware that E class run slower.

The choice to run E class on Route 30 seems like an odd one, where there are a grand total of 2 accessible stops (one at each termini) and plenty of other areas of the network with far more pressing capacity issues. I would have thought the more logical decision would have been to run Route 12 permanently via La Trobe St to provide a direct connection with Southern Cross station and the Casino/MCEC. The City Circle could then continue to serve Docklands as it does now.

If Southbank once again took over part of the 109 (shared with Kew), this would allow for Es to run on Route 109. This would in turn allow for some C1s could be redeployed onto the 48 to replace the remaining A class runs, providing a much need capacity increase for Bridge Road.

Even if you keep route 12 via Collins St. it would still make more sense running E class on route 12, with platform stops at St Kilda terminus, along Danks St. (drive-over hump style), along Collins St., Victoria Pde., at North Richmond Station (drive-over hump), at Lennox St. and outside Victoria Gardens.  The traffic in the St Kilda section is also quite light, giving trams more time to negotiate curves.

E class trams would be best suited to the 58 where their capacity will be very welcome during peak hours. Then there's the hospital precinct...

Do the morning peak Moonee Vale trips still run after amalgamation with route 8?

Even if you keep route 12 via Collins St. it would still make more sense running E class on route 12, with platform stops at St Kilda terminus, along Danks St. (drive-over hump style), along Collins St., Victoria Pde., at North Richmond Station (drive-over hump), at Lennox St. and outside Victoria Gardens.  The traffic in the St Kilda section is also quite light, giving trams more time to negotiate curves.

Hey guys,
              I thought the same about the route 12,that it should stay in Latrobe st and use E Class,but if it did go back to as before E Class would still be a good choice,but i have since found out that the 30 is to be possibly a temporary thing to get the service milege up on the newer cars and also while the major upgrades are being done on the 58 as it was the easiest and quickest to fix as the route is already accredited due to Latrobe st being a diversion route for Bourke st.

Also happening on the same day is that New Preston will be taking over 25% running of the 96 with cars running in/out via St Georges rd and Vic/Nic.I am hoping that maybe a bi-product of this in the future maybe a cascade of the C2's to Kew for the 109 as the journey times are being adjusted.The cascade of E's to the 58 is still on track to happen with the next big timetable change coming in may 2021.

Why would they want to do that?  There would be so much non-PSR running, and the turn at Victoria & Nicholson is so difficult to make.  It makes more sense to give route 109A to New Preston since the route 11A shuttle is promised anyway, which would become the stock balancing movement instead of simply an additional service.

As Route 12 is moving back to Collins Street, presumably, the E-class that were running the supplemental Route 11A Docklands – St Vincents Plaza are being used to reactivate Route 30 (which requires up to 5 trams).

If trams from New Preston wish to access Nicholson Street north of Victoria Street, they’ll have to turn south at the intersection and reverse at Parliament Station or proceed west along La Trobe Street and reverse at the State Library. No different really to accessing St Kilda from Southbank, for example.

Perhaps they’ll convert the Nicholson and Victoria Streets intersection from a three-quarter to a grand union junction, ie add the NE corner, or re-lay the tracks in Holden Street (both in jest).