Murray Basin standardisation

 
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
You want some lateral thinking? Then watch this:
  • Reinstate Eaglehawk-Inglewood with “bare minimum” standards (steel sleepers, re-use rail where possible) to provide BG freight continuity for Sea Lake and Manangatang
  • Convert Ballarat-Ararat to SG with dual gauge Ballarat-Wendouree and a dedicated SG track from Ballarat station through to Warrenheip
  • Purchase a fleet of gauge-convertible DMUs from CAF, Talgo or CRRC and a suitable conversion facility for North Ballarat to enable through running for existing Melbourne-Ararat and Melbourne-Maryborough trains. Extend Ararat services to Stawell, perhaps even Horsham.
  • Convert Ballarat-Gheringhap to SG
  • Convert Maryborough-Ballarat to SG
  • Close the Maroona-Gheringhap ARTC mainline, use recovered rail, ballast and standard gauge concrete sleepers to upgrade Ararat-Ballarat-Gheringhap track standards and provide multiple 2000m+ passing loops or better (Remembering that the entire Ballarat-Geelong line was built as a two-track mainline and apart from some overbridges with insufficient “modern” gauge clearances remains suitable for such)
  • Close Ararat-Maryborough, rip up the line for re-use (the sleepers and ballast will be fine, it’s just the rail that’s rubbish) and forget about the whole sorry saga that was the first iteration of the MBRP
  • Gauge-convert Sea Lake and Manangatang whenever you feel like it/have the money


In brief: put all the money into a proper high quality mainline that serves western interstate as well as Mildura traffic. No point having two lesser-quality mainlines that provide only a marginal benefit over consolidation to one much higher quality one.

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  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
You want some lateral thinking? Then watch this:
  • Reinstate Eaglehawk-Inglewood with “bare minimum” standards (steel sleepers, re-use rail where possible) to provide BG freight continuity for Sea Lake and Manangatang
  • Convert Ballarat-Ararat to SG with dual gauge Ballarat-Wendouree and a dedicated SG track from Ballarat station through to Warrenheip
  • Purchase a fleet of gauge-convertible DMUs from CAF, Talgo or CRRC and a suitable conversion facility for North Ballarat to enable through running for existing Melbourne-Ararat and Melbourne-Maryborough trains. Extend Ararat services to Stawell, perhaps even Horsham.
  • Convert Ballarat-Gheringhap to SG
  • Convert Maryborough-Ballarat to SG
  • Close the Maroona-Gheringhap ARTC mainline, use recovered rail, ballast and standard gauge concrete sleepers to upgrade Ararat-Ballarat-Gheringhap track standards and provide multiple 2000m+ passing loops or better (Remembering that the entire Ballarat-Geelong line was built as a two-track mainline and apart from some overbridges with insufficient “modern” gauge clearances remains suitable for such)
  • Close Ararat-Maryborough, rip up the line for re-use (the sleepers and ballast will be fine, it’s just the rail that’s rubbish) and forget about the whole sorry saga that was the first iteration of the MBRP
  • Gauge-convert Sea Lake and Manangatang whenever you feel like it/have the money


In brief: put all the money into a proper high quality mainline that serves western interstate as well as Mildura traffic. No point having two lesser-quality mainlines that provide only a marginal benefit over consolidation to one much higher quality one.
LancedDendrite
Am sorry, close Maroona-Gheringhap has about as much chance of happening as I have of becoming Prime Minister. Your forgetting one of the reasons that route was chosen over Melbourne-Ballarat-Ararat for the SG conversion route in the 90s was its flatter and straighter. As soon as you start looking at Ballarat for what your suggesting you loose that, and probably end up adding more distance to the route again.

There is more chance of getting passenger services extended west of Ararat with the existing V/Locity fleet and/or converted sprinters. Melbourne to Stawell via Ballarat and Ararat change at Ararat. If the inclination (from the state) was there, it would not be hard to run passenger services Portland-Stawell or further west, connecting with BG services at Ararat to Melbourne.

There was nothing wrong with the original idea in principal, and should be progressed without delay. Given that would seem to be no longer on the table as far as the state is concerned, fix some of the fundamental problems with what they have done, and put a competent project manager in this time and you might actually come in under budget, and can get some of the "bells and whistles" done as a result. Doing something to fix the capacity constraints with the design they have left is with it seems also need to be high on the priority list. Weather that be open Inglwood-bendigo, which seems most logical to me at least, or put back in some of the loops they have taken out, like they seem to be proposing to do with their "fix" that is on the table is probably irrelevant at this point. None of us here has the ability to influence the decision enough to change it. No point now stressing to much about what should have been. Wait and see what if anything the Feds want to do and go from there.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Trouble is Victoria just doesnt seem to understand the English language.

They asked the Feds to pay 80% of a Claytons solution (previously 50/50) to fix up what has been a complete and utter stuff up so far on Victoria's watch.   Feds have said - NO, and Deputy PM said recently on ABC Radio Ballarat - that their Federal  $ 240m contribution so far is ABSOLUTE.

Absolute -(Oxford Dictionary)  means complete / final  !!!   (albeit absolutely is wrongly used in place of the strange old word YES these days.)

Victoria needs to do three things right away, to avoid digging themselves deeper into both future MB mess and financial mess :

1. Re-activate Inglewood  Inglewood as fit for purpose 40 - 50 kmh operation, to handle bumper grain harvests over the next few years whilst the MB mess is sorted out to the key stakeholders/beneficiaries satisfaction. Thus maximizing grain on rail instead of unleashing thousands more trucks on roads. Plus 100 export containers a week from Bridgewater can also use rail, attached to the existing Ultima Inter-modal train operating via a much shorter direct route to and from Melbourne.
2. All tie renewals on broad gauge freight only lines be done with gauge convertible low maintenance steel sleepers. Victorai seems allergic to them, but widely used in regional NSW and more recently by ARTC between Yarrawonga and Oaklands, creating a low maintenace freight track.
3. All tie renewals on broad gauge passenger and passenger/freight lines be done with low profile concrete gauge convertible sleepers which contrary to popular opinion are available from Austrak at Avalon. Again Victoria should put in a trial section to prove theit suitability.

Given the urgency in getting Inglewood  Eaglehawk re-activated to avoid 60 % plus of harvest being on road, one would insert as required wooden sleepers new or re-claimed in this track.  It is already 47kg rail in long welded lengths. A bridge at Marong probably requires re-decking. Two kms of flood damaged missing track near Bridgewater - well commission Millbrook Loop  ASAP, and one releases 7 - 8kms of 107lb rail, hundreds of wooden sleepers with 10 years plus life for re-use, plus 5 sets of boom barriers.. Its not rocket science, its called good railway management using your available assets to best advantage to achieve a perfectly good 40 - 50 kmh freight link at very afforable cost and all within 10 - 12 weeks.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Re Pleurisy Plains route via Cressy.

Distances - the direct route Melbourne - Ballan - Ballarat -  Arrarat is the shortest, but the gradients are steeper on this route for Down trains
- via Mededith is slightly longer but the gradients are slightly easier
- slightly longer again via Cressy but the gradients are easiest of all.

Now with freight trains tonnage one can haul with same hp is the name of the game, as to the larger degree freight is not that time sensitive.

So take an S class diesel electric loco in the Down direction to Ararat - the ruling grade load via Ballan is 780 tonnes, but 1100 tonnes via Cressy. So that is why in 1995 the line via Cressy became the sg mainline to Adelaide. Also with the separate sg line from Tottenham to North Geelong "C" total separation from bg passenger operations was achieved from Melbourne all the way to Ararat.

Now in an ideal world today we would standardardize everything beyond Ballarat, re-instate a long crossing loop at Trawalla and then Interstate freight trains could operate via Cressy on the Down and Up,  and also via Ballarat / Meredith on the Up as an alternative shorter route, plus connect Ballarat to national sg network.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Trouble is Victoria just doesnt seem to understand the English language.

They asked the Feds to pay 80% of a Claytons solution (previously 50/50) to fix up what has been a complete and utter stuff up so far on Victoria's watch.   Feds have said - NO, and Deputy PM said recently on ABC Radio Ballarat - that their Federal  $ 240m contribution so far is ABSOLUTE.

Absolute -(Oxford Dictionary)  means complete / final  !!!   (albeit absolutely is wrongly used in place of the strange old word YES these days.)

Victoria needs to do three things right away, to avoid digging themselves deeper into both future MB mess and financial mess :

1. Re-activate Inglewood  Inglewood as fit for purpose 40 - 50 kmh operation, to handle bumper grain harvests over the next few years whilst the MB mess is sorted out to the key stakeholders/beneficiaries satisfaction. Thus maximizing grain on rail instead of unleashing thousands more trucks on roads. Plus 100 export containers a week from Bridgewater can also use rail, attached to the existing Ultima Inter-modal train operating via a much shorter direct route to and from Melbourne.
2. All tie renewals on broad gauge freight only lines be done with gauge convertible low maintenance steel sleepers. Victorai seems allergic to them, but widely used in regional NSW and more recently by ARTC between Yarrawonga and Oaklands, creating a low maintenace freight track.
3. All tie renewals on broad gauge passenger and passenger/freight lines be done with low profile concrete gauge convertible sleepers which contrary to popular opinion are available from Austrak at Avalon. Again Victoria should put in a trial section to prove theit suitability.

Given the urgency in getting Inglewood  Eaglehawk re-activated to avoid 60 % plus of harvest being on road, one would insert as required wooden sleepers new or re-claimed in this track.  It is already 47kg rail in long welded lengths. A bridge at Marong probably requires re-decking. Two kms of flood damaged missing track near Bridgewater - well commission Millbrook Loop  ASAP, and one releases 7 - 8kms of 107lb rail, hundreds of wooden sleepers with 10 years plus life for re-use, plus 5 sets of boom barriers.. Its not rocket science, its called good railway management using your available assets to best advantage to achieve a perfectly good 40 - 50 kmh freight link at very afforable cost and all within 10 - 12 weeks.
kuldalai
I'm sure the Commonwealth Government Is extremely fed up with the way the Victorian Department of Transport just wastes money like no tomorrow through their management Incomitance (many other departments are In the same boat, like the Department of Health and Human Services)
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Re Pleurisy Plains route via Cressy.

Distances - the direct route Melbourne - Ballan - Ballarat -  Arrarat is the shortest, but the gradients are steeper on this route for Down trains
- via Mededith is slightly longer but the gradients are slightly easier
- slightly longer again via Cressy but the gradients are easiest of all.

Now with freight trains tonnage one can haul with same hp is the name of the game, as to the larger degree freight is not that time sensitive.

So take an S class diesel electric loco in the Down direction to Ararat - the ruling grade load via Ballan is 780 tonnes, but 1100 tonnes via Cressy. So that is why in 1995 the line via Cressy became the sg mainline to Adelaide. Also with the separate sg line from Tottenham to North Geelong "C" total separation from bg passenger operations was achieved from Melbourne all the way to Ararat.

Now in an ideal world today we would standardardize everything beyond Ballarat, re-instate a long crossing loop at Trawalla and then Interstate freight trains could operate via Cressy on the Down and Up,  and also via Ballarat / Meredith on the Up as an alternative shorter route, plus connect Ballarat to national sg network.
kuldalai
Also a lot of Investment has gone Into the Gheringhap - Maroona line In the last decade or so.

Re-Railed with 60 Kg/metre
New 1850 metre crossing loops
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
You want some lateral thinking? Then watch this:
  • Reinstate Eaglehawk-Inglewood with “bare minimum” standards (steel sleepers, re-use rail where possible) to provide BG freight continuity for Sea Lake and Manangatang
  • Convert Ballarat-Ararat to SG with dual gauge Ballarat-Wendouree and a dedicated SG track from Ballarat station through to Warrenheip
  • Purchase a fleet of gauge-convertible DMUs from CAF, Talgo or CRRC and a suitable conversion facility for North Ballarat to enable through running for existing Melbourne-Ararat and Melbourne-Maryborough trains. Extend Ararat services to Stawell, perhaps even Horsham.
  • Convert Ballarat-Gheringhap to SG
  • Convert Maryborough-Ballarat to SG
  • Close the Maroona-Gheringhap ARTC mainline, use recovered rail, ballast and standard gauge concrete sleepers to upgrade Ararat-Ballarat-Gheringhap track standards and provide multiple 2000m+ passing loops or better (Remembering that the entire Ballarat-Geelong line was built as a two-track mainline and apart from some overbridges with insufficient “modern” gauge clearances remains suitable for such)
  • Close Ararat-Maryborough, rip up the line for re-use (the sleepers and ballast will be fine, it’s just the rail that’s rubbish) and forget about the whole sorry saga that was the first iteration of the MBRP
  • Gauge-convert Sea Lake and Manangatang whenever you feel like it/have the money


In brief: put all the money into a proper high quality mainline that serves western interstate as well as Mildura traffic. No point having two lesser-quality mainlines that provide only a marginal benefit over consolidation to one much higher quality one.
LancedDendrite
I love the crescendo of controversy that slowly builds in this post.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Re Pleurisy Plains route via Cressy.

Distances - the direct route Melbourne - Ballan - Ballarat -  Arrarat is the shortest, but the gradients are steeper on this route for Down trains
- via Mededith is slightly longer but the gradients are slightly easier
- slightly longer again via Cressy but the gradients are easiest of all.

Now with freight trains tonnage one can haul with same hp is the name of the game, as to the larger degree freight is not that time sensitive.

So take an S class diesel electric loco in the Down direction to Ararat - the ruling grade load via Ballan is 780 tonnes, but 1100 tonnes via Cressy. So that is why in 1995 the line via Cressy became the sg mainline to Adelaide. Also with the separate sg line from Tottenham to North Geelong "C" total separation from bg passenger operations was achieved from Melbourne all the way to Ararat.

Now in an ideal world today we would standardardize everything beyond Ballarat, re-instate a long crossing loop at Trawalla and then Interstate freight trains could operate via Cressy on the Down and Up,  and also via Ballarat / Meredith on the Up as an alternative shorter route, plus connect Ballarat to national sg network.
Also a lot of Investment has gone Into the Gheringhap - Maroona line In the last decade or so.

Re-Railed with 60 Kg/metre
New 1850 metre crossing loops
Nightfire
Certainly has CTC throughout now (Originally ASW), and conrete sleepers throughout, extra loop or two and selected loops lengthened but not so sure it has been re-railed as yet, still suspect it is 94lb CWR  Gheringhap to Maroona. Not quite sure that Kevin07 got around to that in the GFC ARTC works binge.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Certainly has CTC throughout now (Originally ASW), and conrete sleepers throughout, extra loop or two and selected loops lengthened but not so sure it has been re-railed as yet, still suspect it is 94lb CWR  Gheringhap to Maroona. Not quite sure that Kevin07 got around to that in the GFC ARTC works binge.
kuldalai
Pretty sure Gheringhap to Ararat got re-railed, with one of those schemes to keep the steel mill at Whyalla running.

Ararat to the SA boarder was re-railed back In the early 80's

Newport to North Geelong would of been built with 60 kg/metre.

Dual Gauge sections mostly use 94 LB rail
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Re Pleurisy Plains route via Cressy.

Distances - the direct route Melbourne - Ballan - Ballarat -  Arrarat is the shortest, but the gradients are steeper on this route for Down trains
- via Mededith is slightly longer but the gradients are slightly easier
- slightly longer again via Cressy but the gradients are easiest of all.

Now with freight trains tonnage one can haul with same hp is the name of the game, as to the larger degree freight is not that time sensitive.

So take an S class diesel electric loco in the Down direction to Ararat - the ruling grade load via Ballan is 780 tonnes, but 1100 tonnes via Cressy. So that is why in 1995 the line via Cressy became the sg mainline to Adelaide. Also with the separate sg line from Tottenham to North Geelong "C" total separation from bg passenger operations was achieved from Melbourne all the way to Ararat.

Now in an ideal world today we would standardardize everything beyond Ballarat, re-instate a long crossing loop at Trawalla and then Interstate freight trains could operate via Cressy on the Down and Up,  and also via Ballarat / Meredith on the Up as an alternative shorter route, plus connect Ballarat to national sg network.
Also a lot of Investment has gone Into the Gheringhap - Maroona line In the last decade or so.

Re-Railed with 60 Kg/metre
New 1850 metre crossing loops
Certainly has CTC throughout now (Originally ASW), and conrete sleepers throughout, extra loop or two and selected loops lengthened but not so sure it has been re-railed as yet, still suspect it is 94lb CWR  Gheringhap to Maroona. Not quite sure that Kevin07 got around to that in the GFC ARTC works binge.
kuldalai

There were rail drops out there a couple of years back or so, I'd imagine they did it with the big stuff
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Another very good article by Andrew Miller of Stock and Land with comments by GrainCorp chief:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/6982743/national-oversight-needed-for-rail-freight/?cs=4786
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Another very good article by Andrew Miller of Stock and Land with comments by GrainCorp chief:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/6982743/national-oversight-needed-for-rail-freight/?cs=4786
Carnot


Awesome comments there from Graincorp

Weak smeg corporate spin there from Pacific National though.  Not that i expect them to say anything better as their advocacy for Freight on Rail has been lacklustre at best.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Another very good article by Andrew Miller of Stock and Land with comments by GrainCorp chief:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/6982743/national-oversight-needed-for-rail-freight/?cs=4786


Awesome comments there from Graincorp

Weak smeg corporate spin there from Pacific National though.  Not that i expect them to say anything better as their advocacy for Freight on Rail has been lacklustre at best.
james.au
The word on the street is that if Inglewood to Eaglehawk is reopened, some of the rail haulage companies would use it a lot in the coming harvest and beyond.  Over to the Vic Govt to make it happen....
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Not only the MBRP needs some rather fast work done to shift some of the up coming harvest but it appears the Toolamba line may well need a freshen up as well, Carnot has already mentioned this, with a very good season thoughout the Rivereina.

Rice returns to Denilquin.

https://www.theland.com.au/story/6970336/planting-rice-again-after-two-years/

BigShunter.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The article linked above shows us all what a dud this minister is and the level of competence in the department. Who desktop studies $440m of investment and does not check the field and have the business case checked. Gross incompetence and negligence.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I think the original business case was drawn up under the previous LNP State government. And they weren't renowned for actually doing anything, let alone a bit of study and hard graft.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
The article linked above shows us all what a dud this minister is and the level of competence in the department. Who desktop studies $440m of investment and does not check the field and have the business case checked. Gross incompetence and negligence.
freightgate
Welcome to all minesterial stuff. Unless they're announcing something new, the budget looks bad or something goes horrendously wrong, they virtually have little to no idea what goes on behind the scene.

The choice was made by V/line, more than likely because it was the cheapest option, but the other companies who gave a quote did know how much more was going to be needed.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
I think the original business case was drawn up under the previous LNP State government.
wobert
There is the reason the ALP don't do anything about it.   Cannot have the opposite number having something that actually get followed through and completed properly.   (Is the same the other way around as well.)
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Do irony much
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/victoria/hearings-begin-on-v-line-s-second-corruption-probe-in-three-years-after-ceo-stood-down-20201025-p568ap.html

Some more commentary - this time giving some insight into the culture within V/Line.
  Maximas Locomotive Fireman

Location: Geelong
I think the original business case was drawn up under the previous LNP State government. And they weren't renowned for actually doing anything, let alone a bit of study and hard graft.
wobert
The same LNP who thought fast rail to all major regional centres could be done for 17 billion or something similar? Even at the federal level they think 2 billion gets Victoria half way to high speed rail to Geelong if I recall correctly?

Hardly matters though does it - Labor recommitted to the project and announced the funding, then shovels hit the ground
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/victoria/hearings-begin-on-v-line-s-second-corruption-probe-in-three-years-after-ceo-stood-down-20201025-p568ap.html

Some more commentary - this time giving some insight into the culture within V/Line.
james.au
It is an insult to the many thousands of dedicated current and former rail employees to see the seemingly endless procession of political and managerial lizards flaunting 'train proof/flak jackets' and spotless crash hats.

When will we learn to stop importing so called experts from Britain who seem to feature so often in failures of one sort or another and/or corruption?

Whatever happened to the homegrown solid, reliable, competent and politically independent railwaymen and women who have spent a lifetime in the job?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/victoria/hearings-begin-on-v-line-s-second-corruption-probe-in-three-years-after-ceo-stood-down-20201025-p568ap.html

Some more commentary - this time giving some insight into the culture within V/Line.
It is an insult to the many thousands of dedicated current and former rail employees to see the seemingly endless procession of political and managerial lizards flaunting 'train proof/flak jackets' and spotless crash hats.

When will we learn to stop importing so called experts from Britain who seem to feature so often in failures of one sort or another and/or corruption?

Whatever happened to the homegrown solid, reliable, competent and politically independent railwaymen and women who have spent a lifetime in the job?
YM-Mundrabilla
Mate, ill put my hand up to do it.  I can guarantee you I wont be taking backhanders even though im 6th generation first fleet from 4 different breadstealers....

This is just garbage (see the other thread).
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/victoria/hearings-begin-on-v-line-s-second-corruption-probe-in-three-years-after-ceo-stood-down-20201025-p568ap.html

Some more commentary - this time giving some insight into the culture within V/Line.
It is an insult to the many thousands of dedicated current and former rail employees to see the seemingly endless procession of political and managerial lizards flaunting 'train proof/flak jackets' and spotless crash hats.

When will we learn to stop importing so called experts from Britain who seem to feature so often in failures of one sort or another and/or corruption?

Whatever happened to the homegrown solid, reliable, competent and politically independent railwaymen and women who have spent a lifetime in the job?
Mate, ill put my hand up to do it.  I can guarantee you I wont be taking backhanders even though im 6th generation first fleet from 4 different breadstealers....

This is just garbage (see the other thread).
james.au
No backhanders you won't even make the 'long list'.
Nevertheless, I would appoint you provided that I can be your deputy, the YMs can get a job as a shorthand/typist (remember them - probably not Smile) and my dog can get a security job.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/victoria/hearings-begin-on-v-line-s-second-corruption-probe-in-three-years-after-ceo-stood-down-20201025-p568ap.html

Some more commentary - this time giving some insight into the culture within V/Line.
It is an insult to the many thousands of dedicated current and former rail employees to see the seemingly endless procession of political and managerial lizards flaunting 'train proof/flak jackets' and spotless crash hats.

When will we learn to stop importing so called experts from Britain who seem to feature so often in failures of one sort or another and/or corruption?

Whatever happened to the homegrown solid, reliable, competent and politically independent railwaymen and women who have spent a lifetime in the job?
Mate, ill put my hand up to do it.  I can guarantee you I wont be taking backhanders even though im 6th generation first fleet from 4 different breadstealers....

This is just garbage (see the other thread).
No backhanders you won't even make the 'long list'.
Nevertheless, I would appoint you provided that I can be your deputy, the YMs can get a job as a shorthand/typist (remember them - probably not Smile) and my dog can get a security job.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
YM-Mundrabilla


YM there are plenty of yards that will need managing to efficiency.  You can take your dog with you too.  So long as s/he wears hi viz and follows track safety regulations.

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