Trying to book a sleeper from Brisbane to Sydney

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Wanting this year to book a sleeper from Brisbane to Sydney around the 7th January.

There only now appears to be day train from Brisbane to Sydney or an overnight service from Casino to Sydney which does not suit me at all.

Did the XPT service change to a day train recently?

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  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Its not at all recent.  

It's been a day train from brisbane to sydney since before I was born.  

The sleeper from casino to sydney has a bus connections from Brisbane, Gold Coast and a huge number of northern NSW towns.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Its not at all recent.  

It's been a day train from brisbane to sydney since before I was born.  

The sleeper from casino to sydney has a bus connections from Brisbane, Gold Coast and a huge number of northern NSW towns.
tazzer96

Too hard booked a railbed from Cairns to Brisbane
  G Train Locomotive Driver

This arrangement of services began in early Feb 1990 after the withdrawal of the popular loco hauled Brisbane & Murwillumbah services.

The Grafton XPT restarted a couple of years later after much public outcry (& I believe after ordering of more XPT / Explorer trains along with re-timetabling) giving 3 services each way between Sydney & Grafton. I believe other threads over the years have covered the changed times of these services & reasons for these. Nevertheless the service times and diagrams aren’t really suitable, with many people calling for at least the Brisbane night north - day south diagram to be reversed. Of course there are flow on effects to consider. I’d be surprised if anything at all changes before the delivery of the new long distance trains.

I‘ve travelled on the northbound Syd - Casino day service & southbound Bris - Syd day service when it left at a slightly more reasonable time. Both were pretty good, scenic trips.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Queensland rail doesn't want SG trains from NSW to share their NG suburban lines during peak hours, so you'd be lucky if the new long distance trains of Transport NSW will make any change.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Its not so much a case of them not wanting to share the lines during peak, but the manner in which the XPT used to run was in the opposite direction to the packed gold coast line trains.  I'm pretty sure QR wouldn't be against having any SG train arrive at roma street between 6-9am, as long as it doesn't need to head back south before 9:30am.  

Unfortunately due to how shamboliclly slow the NCL is in places, you aren't ever going to get a departure from brisbane that late.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Wanting this year to book a sleeper from Brisbane to Sydney around the 7th January.
bevans
NT32 is a day service, into Sydney. NT31 is the night sleeper, in the other direction. 31 forms 32.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Is any suburban station available for terminating SG trains?  It would be more convenient than Casino.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Is any suburban station available for terminating SG trains?  It would be more convenient than Casino.
route14

Park Road platform 4 is available and has been used in the past.  Even has the XPT stopping markers.   But I know they don't like using that.  

South Bank has a platform face on the dual gauge line but not practical in any way to be used for a terminating train.  

It might be a different story when Cross River Rail becomes close to finished as all the stations between between south bank and salisbury will have a platform on the dual gauge line.
  brissim Chief Train Controller

As several have pointed out, ever since the XPT replaced the loco-hauled Brisbane Limited 30 YEARS AGO IN 1990, the Sydney-Brisbane XPT has been an overnight service (with one convertible sleeper car) with the return Brisbane-Sydney service being a daylight service. 30 years ago people.

Now on top of this at the moment we have the COVID border restrictions still in place. And with no idea when they will be fully relaxed. Since the border restrictions came into place, the "Sydney-Brisbane" NT31 service has terminated at Casino. This means the return "Brisbane-Sydney" NT32 service starts from Casino.

Tony
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

As several have pointed out, ever since the XPT replaced the loco-hauled Brisbane Limited 30 YEARS AGO IN 1990, the Sydney-Brisbane XPT has been an overnight service (with one convertible sleeper car) with the return Brisbane-Sydney service being a daylight service. 30 years ago people.

Now on top of this at the moment we have the COVID border restrictions still in place. And with no idea when they will be fully relaxed. Since the border restrictions came into place, the "Sydney-Brisbane" NT31 service has terminated at Casino. This means the return "Brisbane-Sydney" NT32 service starts from Casino.

Tony
brissim
thank you for your completely superfluous reply, Bevans was asking about booking a sleeper from Brisbane to Sydney, microscopic examination of your answer provides no Information to address his request.

Pre-Covid and I presume post-Covid there are buses that depart Brisbane and then arrive at Casino to join the train which has sleepers to Sydney.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Its not so much a case of them not wanting to share the lines during peak, but the manner in which the XPT used to run was in the opposite direction to the packed gold coast line trains.  I'm pretty sure QR wouldn't be against having any SG train arrive at roma street between 6-9am, as long as it doesn't need to head back south before 9:30am.  

Unfortunately due to how shamboliclly slow the NCL is in places, you aren't ever going to get a departure from brisbane that late.
tazzer96
The only option Is can see (without upsetting the flow of QR City Train's network) Is If the Ex Sydney train lays over In Brisbane for the whole day and departs for Sydney In the evening.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Its not so much a case of them not wanting to share the lines during peak, but the manner in which the XPT used to run was in the opposite direction to the packed gold coast line trains.  I'm pretty sure QR wouldn't be against having any SG train arrive at roma street between 6-9am, as long as it doesn't need to head back south before 9:30am.  

Unfortunately due to how shamboliclly slow the NCL is in places, you aren't ever going to get a departure from brisbane that late.
The only option Is can see (without upsetting the flow of QR City Train's network) Is If the Ex Sydney train lays over In Brisbane for the whole day and departs for Sydney In the evening.
Nightfire
Under no circumstances what so ever should the XPT be granted access to QR Citytrain network during the hours of 6:30 and 9am. Its not tolerated in Sydney so why expect it in Brisbane.

With the new trains the BNE timetable should be changed such that the BNE train departs Sydney after evening peak and arrives in BNE after AM peak. The reverse running should leave before evening peak in BNE arriving in Sydney around 6:30am. Yes the trains 5-6h layover in BNE is "inefficient", but its the only way to work.

The Grafton train is the day train and the BNE train is the night train. Not sure how the Casino train fits in, but I think it should be a post AM peak departure from Sydney, arriving mid evening in Casino and leaving Casino such that it arrives after the Grafton train.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The new regional trains should be faster then the XPT's due to better acceleration, handling and braking and so maybe extending them to 8 cars with 2-3 carriages in commuter class might allow a stop at suburban areas that would make them palatable to be able to run in peak hour from say Greenbank. Put a card reader in these commuter class areas of the new trains and peak hour is no longer is an issue.

As for Bevans request he would seem to have answered his own question. There is no such service.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Under no circumstances what so ever should the XPT be granted access to QR Citytrain network during the hours of 6:30 and 9am. Its not tolerated in Sydney so why expect it in Brisbane.
What? There is no such curfew in Sydney, and several XPT services operate in peak hours. The XPT services to/from Brisbane have never been attractively timed, they don't connect with any QR long distance trains. State governments apparently aren't interested in subsidising such services.
UpperQuad
Look at the XPT timetable in Syd Suburban/IU area's, compare with what's been discussed in Brisbane and then get back to me.

If the BNE XPT was to be adjusted as I indicated above, then a connection with the RTT is provided.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The curfews are not for passenger traffic but there still are limitations due to capacity restraints in peak hour. Maybe what is needed is more trains that run from Newcastle instead of Sydney for northern regional services.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
The curfews are not for passenger traffic but there still are limitations due to capacity restraints in peak hour.
simstrain
Yeah, in Brisbane. One XPT and one path won't cause an issue in Sydney.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The curfews are not for passenger traffic but there still are limitations due to capacity restraints in peak hour. Maybe what is needed is more trains that run from Newcastle instead of Sydney for northern regional services.
simstrain

Why are these limitations required?

If the XPT was to be an overnight service between Brisbane and Sydney what time would it need to leave to make it an overn ight service?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


Why are these limitations required?

If the XPT was to be an overnight service between Brisbane and Sydney what time would it need to leave to make it an overn ight service?
bevans

It is difficult to say because the trip is 13 hours long and both ends have peak hour limitations. Unlike Melbourne neither Sydney or Brisbane have a dedicated track pair for regional trains or use a freight line to get in and out of these cities major terminals (although Roma street really isn't a proper terminal is it) and they have to share the network with suburban and intercity trains. In addition they have to fit in with freight trains also trying to use these paths.

If you leave at 9pm in the evening it will be 9 or 10am (depending on daylight saving) by the time you get to Brisbane. Whereas if the Brisbane service left from broadmeadow or newcastle interchange then an intercity service could be the first part of the journey.
  LesS Train Controller

Location: Behind the Camera
From Roma Street to Yeerongpilly there are 3 tracks. The western most is dual gauge and bidirectional. It is this track that the XPT uses.
During the morning and afternoon peaks QR have difficulty in finding paths for the services to/from the Gold Coast as well as Beenleigh. An XPT using the line opposing the peak hour flow would occupy the line for too long. Therefore no XPT.

It has been suggested that the North Coast timetables by adjusted for a turnaround in Brisbane between 9.30pm  and 11.00pm. The problem is that this would disrupt the existing contracts with the suppliers of connecting buses, particularly at Casino and Grafton.

I would be surprised to see the XPT ever return to Brisbane. The morning departure from Sydney to Casino with bus connection is very good. I have used it several times with complete satisfaction. Without a reasonable return service southbound, head for Eagle Farm airport.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
From Roma Street to Yeerongpilly there are 3 tracks. The western most is dual gauge and bidirectional. It is this track that the XPT uses.
During the morning and afternoon peaks QR have difficulty in finding paths for the services to/from the Gold Coast as well as Beenleigh. An XPT using the line opposing the peak hour flow would occupy the line for too long. Therefore no XPT.

It has been suggested that the North Coast timetables by adjusted for a turnaround in Brisbane between 9.30pm  and 11.00pm. The problem is that this would disrupt the existing contracts with the suppliers of connecting buses, particularly at Casino and Grafton.

I would be surprised to see the XPT ever return to Brisbane. The morning departure from Sydney to Casino with bus connection is very good. I have used it several times with complete satisfaction. Without a reasonable return service southbound, head for Eagle Farm airport.
LesS
Unlike what Sim's says, Roma Street is perfectly fine terminus for the XPT, but its the access that is the issue.

Its twin tracks across the bridge which means a crossing path in either direction.

Running in peak direction into the city is one less Gold Coast train, the same isn't allowed in Sydney for the same reason although opposite peak is not an issue unlike Brisbane.  

Nothing wrong with XPT to Brisbane, however you need a long layover to make it work properly. For example

Depart Sydney 7 pm, arrive Brisbane 9:30 am (could be a bit later)
Depart Brisbane 4:00 pm, arrive Sydney 6:30 am

This provides a bonus for Nth Coast users to access Brisbane on a day trip as Brisbane is their nearest major center for accessing govt services, shopping, medical etc.

The issue with above is the long layover for the set however its a train designed to provide a service. However this can be accommodated by changing  the timing of the Grafton and Casino XPT's or potentially better running times with the new trains if they have better performance in acceleration and braking.


The Qld govt provides funding each year for one XPT a day to arrive in Brisbane so it will go back, but the current timetable is not sustainable.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The big question is if you had the XPT layover in brisbane for any decent length of time.  Would you let it sit in platform 2/3 for a few hours, or would you run it dead to either clapham, the port or acacia ridge.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Roma street isn't a proper terminal RTT is it. Sure you can terminate a train there but if it was a proper terminal then it wouldn't really be an issue if the train sits there for 6-8 hours out of the road of all those suburban trains. Arriving at 9.30am means 8.30am in daylight saving.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Eagle Farm airport?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Roma street isn't a proper terminal RTT is it. Sure you can terminate a train there but if it was a proper terminal then it wouldn't really be an issue if the train sits there for 6-8 hours out of the road of all those suburban trains. Arriving at 9.30am means 8.30am in daylight saving.
simstrain
Its perfectly fine and QR terminates all the other regional services there.

Plat 2 is used by.....wait for it........1 service per week to Doomben. At a guess this service is more than likely timetabled to clean the NG rails, especially the northern NG exit. If required this service can be timetabled from the almost equally irregular platform 3.

Ok, DSL, fine leave Sydney 1h later, if needed timetable that as normal exit time from Sydney.

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