Suburban Rail Loop (Election promise)

 
  chomper Junior Train Controller

Granted it is indicative only at this stage, but if this accurate they need to re-think the alignment and location of stations; Monash and Glen Waverley are stupidly located. The alignment between Cheltenham and Clayton would be far shorter if the route went as the crow flies.

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/-/media/Project/VicRoads/SuburbanRailLoop/Stations-Materials/SRL-Stage-One-rail-tunnel-alignment-and-proposed-underground-stations.pdf

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  megahertz Station Staff

Location: In the hills
Granted it is indicative only at this stage, but if this accurate they need to re-think the alignment and location of stations; Monash and Glen Waverley are stupidly located.
chomper
Why do you think that the Monash station location is stupid?

Being on the northern side of the campus, it is well located for the commercial offices that are being built in the Notting Hill / Mount Waverley precinct along Ferntree Gully Road, basically between Forster Road (west) and Blackburn Road (east), the freeway (north) and Monash University (south), whilst still capturing the Monash campus.

South of the university campus is low and medium density residential and light industrial (both lower density and therefore not as big trip generators).

In Glen Waverley is it right behind the existing retail precinct (although the Glen is further north there are equally the council offices and hotels to the south (so it is in the middle), it links to the existing Glen Waverley station, and it is located in an area of carparks so that there is space to construct the access to the station.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Granted it is indicative only at this stage, but if this accurate they need to re-think the alignment and location of stations; Monash and Glen Waverley are stupidly located. The alignment between Cheltenham and Clayton would be far shorter if the route went as the crow flies.

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/-/media/Project/VicRoads/SuburbanRailLoop/Stations-Materials/SRL-Stage-One-rail-tunnel-alignment-and-proposed-underground-stations.pdf


I was surprised with this alignment too - but I’m thought of 3 potential reasons why Cheltenham - Clayton isn’t direct

1. Potential ground level depot somewhere in Heatherton / Clarinda (there’s lots of open space with no significant housing.

2. They want to follow the roads for some reason (potentially having a cut and cover section?)

3. (Least likely) Ground conditions aren’t great.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner


I was surprised with this alignment too - but I’m thought of 3 potential reasons why Cheltenham - Clayton isn’t direct

1. Potential ground level depot somewhere in Heatherton / Clarinda (there’s lots of open space with no significant housing.

2. They want to follow the roads for some reason (potentially having a cut and cover section?)

3. (Least likely) Ground conditions aren’t great.
Jordy33
I believe it's 1.

They need somewhere to put a depot, and that's the most likely candidate.
  chomper Junior Train Controller

Granted it is indicative only at this stage, but if this accurate they need to re-think the alignment and location of stations; Monash and Glen Waverley are stupidly located.
Why do you think that the Monash station location is stupid?

Being on the northern side of the campus, it is well located for the commercial offices that are being built in the Notting Hill / Mount Waverley precinct along Ferntree Gully Road, basically between Forster Road (west) and Blackburn Road (east), the freeway (north) and Monash University (south), whilst still capturing the Monash campus.

South of the university campus is low and medium density residential and light industrial (both lower density and therefore not as big trip generators).

In Glen Waverley is it right behind the existing retail precinct (although the Glen is further north there are equally the council offices and hotels to the south (so it is in the middle), it links to the existing Glen Waverley station, and it is located in an area of carparks so that there is space to construct the access to the station.
megahertz

The location of the Monash station needs to be entirely within the campus grounds, with a bias to the south. This covers the university patronage and provides easy access to both the residential base south of Wellington Road and the employment precinct north of Normanby Rd. It would also be better located for whatever choice of rail (light or heavy) rolls through to Rowville along Wellington Road as an interchange.

Glen Waverley would be better located between the existing station and Springvale Rd, centered under the existing between the high rise and Springvale Rd.
  Upven Junior Train Controller

Can't wait to see what walls that $2.2b gets pissed up against. Over to you Auditor General's Office..
The absolute smeg of services that need to be relocated.
speedemon08
I don't accept that justification at all. $2.2 billion is enough to buy 3,500 homes at an average of $628,571 each.

This article too, seems to suggest property acquisitions are related to the $2.2b, which would make more sense:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/2-2-billion-committed-for-first-section-of-suburban-rail-loop-20201116-p56evy.html
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

The Monash station location in present day is a very silly choice, over 1km to the other side of Monash campus. It would only be warranted if major urban renewal were to occur where the current light industry is.

Southland / Cheltenham SRL station is in a good location as long as it’s well integrated with the existing Southland station and the Shopping Centre itself - there shouldn’t have to be walking through car parks.

Clayton SRL station is in a good location, but preferably update existing station for even better integration.

Glen Waverley SRL station - good location, but a direct pedestrian link with the existing platforms + station upgrade.

Deakin / Burwood SRL station - ok location, make sure station entrances on both sides of the major road.

Box Hill SRL station - acceptable location, likely the most complex station to be built. Pedestrian tunnels to existing platforms would be great. This will be a busy interchange station.

Overall - Most stations have acceptable locations, but many are next to major roads so I personally would recommend at least one entrance on each side of the road. One of SRL’s major factors is that it’s mainly a line for interchanging lines, so connections must be seamless!

Foamer mention - Surely they could add a station between Cheltenham and Clayton following the alignment? They could throw in some new development, bus links to Clarinda (North of station) and Dingley Village (SE of station).
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Granted it is indicative only at this stage, but if this accurate they need to re-think the alignment and location of stations; Monash and Glen Waverley are stupidly located. The alignment between Cheltenham and Clayton would be far shorter if the route went as the crow flies.

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/-/media/Project/VicRoads/SuburbanRailLoop/Stations-Materials/SRL-Stage-One-rail-tunnel-alignment-and-proposed-underground-stations.pdf


I was surprised with this alignment too - but I’m thought of 3 potential reasons why Cheltenham - Clayton isn’t direct

1. Potential ground level depot somewhere in Heatherton / Clarinda (there’s lots of open space with no significant housing.

2. They want to follow the roads for some reason (potentially having a cut and cover section?)

3. (Least likely) Ground conditions aren’t great.
Jordy33
Tunnelling through a bunch of sand mines, some of which are now land-fill, will be very tricky.

Hence (3.) the most pressing issue. Empty space for a works site (1.) is a bonus.

Following roads (2.) is always preferable, if possible. Just like MM1.
It gives the option, that should the TBM fail, you don't have to dig up a bunch of buildings to rescue it.  

cheers
John
  Upven Junior Train Controller

Granted it is indicative only at this stage, but if this accurate they need to re-think the alignment and location of stations; Monash and Glen Waverley are stupidly located. The alignment between Cheltenham and Clayton would be far shorter if the route went as the crow flies.

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/-/media/Project/VicRoads/SuburbanRailLoop/Stations-Materials/SRL-Stage-One-rail-tunnel-alignment-and-proposed-underground-stations.pdf


I was surprised with this alignment too - but I’m thought of 3 potential reasons why Cheltenham - Clayton isn’t direct

1. Potential ground level depot somewhere in Heatherton / Clarinda (there’s lots of open space with no significant housing.

2. They want to follow the roads for some reason (potentially having a cut and cover section?)

3. (Least likely) Ground conditions aren’t great.
Tunnelling through a bunch of sand mines, some of which are now land-fill, will be very tricky.

Hence (3.) the most pressing issue. Empty space for a works site (1.) is a bonus.

Following roads (2.) is always preferable, if possible. Just like MM1.
It gives the option, that should the TBM fail, you don't have to dig up a bunch of buildings to rescue it.  

cheers
John
justarider





Yeah the route appears (from this image from the Age) to follow Kingston Road before taking a 90 degree turn up Clayton Road.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

As long as that turn doesn’t slow down the train then that’s ok - 100kph is a good target because faster trains = faster journeys = less train sets required
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
The Monash station location in present day is a very silly choice, over 1km to the other side of Monash campus. It would only be warranted if major urban renewal were to occur where the current light industry is.
Jordy33
Since the campus is 1km square, it will always be further for some than others.
Terrific site for Engineering students, CSIRO, residential: tough for lawyers, doctors ( guess which discipline makes this decision).

As for renewal, the university has been trying for years to work out a way to bulldoze the abomination "Normanby House", and find a use for that off-campus site.
Now they might have found a buyer.

cheers
John
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Station locations are odd if you think of them as just stations.

They wont be your run of the mill suburban stations. I would not be surprised as has been mentioned, if entire blocks of were acquired to firstly, to facilitate construction and then to sell off and develop once the project is complete. I'd also expect special devlopment zones around the stations and wouldn't be surprised if a levy was introduced, same as when the city loop was constructed. All this will go a long was to regenerating the suburbs as well as recovering a fair chunk of the projects capital.

Southland -
Petrol Station and a chunk of Sir William Fry Reserve go. As the location anchor, Southland will be in on the development and the current car park will most likely end up going and become and extension of the shopping centre. If the government has any smarts they would force Southland into some sort of pedestrian plaza to link Southland Station, the shopping centre and the new SRL station.

Clayton -
Properties between Madeleine Road & Clayton Road go, how far down depends on the size of the station box. The distance between Clayton Station & Monash Medical Centre is only 380. Not too much of a stretch to have entrances at both ends of a future station box linking these two anchors. The gap in-between the rail bridges needs to be decked over Clayton Road allowing future commuters to cross Clayton road and transfer to the future SRL Station.

Monash -
I would have liked to have seen the station closer to the University, developed right it can be a good outcome. I suspect it was cheaper to acquire the industrial area than a slice of Monash Uni. Once again expect the majority of the block between Normanby Road & FTG Road to go. (Expect Normanby House) Open cut station box and TBM support, developed after construction into mid rise offices and apartments; what is already happening around this area. Monash would need a shuttle to connect into the station to connect uni students to learning.

Glen Waverly -
Location is perfect, Aquire the Glendale Street Carpark. Station box will run across the current Glen Waverly Station. It is 300m from the Glendale Street Carpark to The Glen (Osullivan & Kingway) Same as Clayton, depending on the size of the station boxes and how cleaver the designers want to be its not to much to see a station entrance popping up on the corner of Kingsway & Osullivan. Glendale Street Carpark becomes a new apartment towers post construction. Glen Waverly Station get a makeover.

Burwood -
Again, not a perfect location. Bit of a distance from the main university. I was expecting the station to occupy some of Bennettswood Reserve, directly opposite the main university. Same as Monash I suspect it was easier to acquire a workshop than uni land. One can only hope that an underground connection between the uni and the SRL station is made to avoid thousands of people having to cross Burwood Highway. This station will also become and interchange the the 75 Tram linking Burwood East, Vermont South and maybe even Knox into the SRL.

Box Hill -
Couldn't be better, Connections to the 109 tram and Box Hill Station via Market Street Plaza. I wonder if the government had the balls to acquire the retail area between Market Street & Station Street. This would open up a public plaza better connecting everything together. Once again i'd expect to see some High Rise Development on acquired land. The core area around Box Hill Central is in need of a redevelopment, would be nice to see Box Hill Central come on board and improve access to the station and the bus interchange.

Interesting to see how the next 12 months unfold and which properties start to disappear. Interesting the construction on the early works package wont start until 2022. I assume this has something to do with transferring the workforce and know how from MM1 too SRL.  

Lockie
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Would the current Burwood station on the Alamein Line be renamed?
Or would the future SRL Burwood station have a different name such as Deakin?
slowcoach
The station names on the suburban rail loop project are only "working names only".

Like the Metro Tunnel, they'll confirm the naming of the stations to fit their location.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Will they tunnel a tiny bit further than Box Hill to make stage 2 (if it ever happens) easier? It would be extremely difficult I'd imagine to link up the tunnels I'd imagine if they didn't.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Station locations are odd if you think of them as just stations.

They wont be your run of the mill suburban stations. I would not be surprised as has been mentioned, if entire blocks of were acquired to firstly, to facilitate construction and then to sell off and develop once the project is complete. I'd also expect special devlopment zones around the stations and wouldn't be surprised if a levy was introduced, same as when the city loop was constructed. All this will go a long was to regenerating the suburbs as well as recovering a fair chunk of the projects capital.


Monash -
I would have liked to have seen the station closer to the University, developed right it can be a good outcome. I suspect it was cheaper to acquire the industrial area than a slice of Monash Uni. Once again expect the majority of the block between Normanby Road & FTG Road to go. (Expect Normanby House) Open cut station box and TBM support, developed after construction into mid rise offices and apartments; what is already happening around this area. Monash would need a shuttle to connect into the station to connect uni students to learning.


Box Hill -
Couldn't be better, Connections to the 109 tram and Box Hill Station via Market Street Plaza. I wonder if the government had the balls to acquire the retail area between Market Street & Station Street. This would open up a public plaza better connecting everything together. Once again i'd expect to see some High Rise Development on acquired land. The core area around Box Hill Central is in need of a redevelopment, would be nice to see Box Hill Central come on board and improve access to the station and the bus interchange.
Lockie91
Monash - Normanby House will probably go. Light rail could go past for connection between Bus Loop and SRL station. Otherwise, it's a fair distance between the two (20min+ walk).

Box Hill - Vicinity are on record as wanting to develop as soon as the glen was considered done. Not sure if Covid changed that, but I think you'll find that whole area gets a redevelopment as a combination of both parties funding it.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The Monash Station location seems a bit odd, but hopefully the development around it justifies it.

Perhaps the thinking is that the shuttle bus from Huntingdale will be extended around the corner so it shuttles between the SRL station and the Metro station, while serving multiple points around the campus, such as a couple of stops along Scenic Blvd.

I would hope that Southland has a really good connection to the Metro station to maximise connectivity.
  Yappo Station Master

Station locations are odd if you think of them as just stations.

Monash -
I would have liked to have seen the station closer to the University, developed right it can be a good outcome. I suspect it was cheaper to acquire the industrial area than a slice of Monash Uni. Once again expect the majority of the block between Normanby Road & FTG Road to go. (Expect Normanby House) Open cut station box and TBM support, developed after construction into mid rise offices and apartments; what is already happening around this area. Monash would need a shuttle to connect into the station to connect uni students to learning.

Glen Waverly -
Location is perfect, Aquire the Glendale Street Carpark. Station box will run across the current Glen Waverly Station. It is 300m from the Glendale Street Carpark to The Glen (Osullivan & Kingway) Same as Clayton, depending on the size of the station boxes and how cleaver the designers want to be its not to much to see a station entrance popping up on the corner of Kingsway & Osullivan. Glendale Street Carpark becomes a new apartment towers post construction. Glen Waverly Station get a makeover.
Lockie91
Tbh, I was expecting Monash Uni station to be close to Princess Hwy side, ideally at the Bus Loop/Interchange - adjacent to Wellington rd - which is a perfect site. That provides access to a much larger residential catchment and better interchange with bus services.

Regarding Glen Waverley, unless the long term plan is to create another Box Hill style zone with new residential towers, it would be much better & cheaper to interchange with this line at Mt Waverley. It is a more direct path from Monash to Burwood and Box Hill. What is the compelling need to interchange at GW?
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Would the current Burwood station on the Alamein Line be renamed?
Or would the future SRL Burwood station have a different name such as Deakin?
The station names on the suburban rail loop project are only "working names only".

Like the Metro Tunnel, they'll confirm the naming of the stations to fit their location.
True Believers

After the Arden > North Melbourne > Arden and North Melbourne > West Melbourne > North Melbourne debacle, I expect the State Government would think twice about transferring an existing station name to a new site and renaming the existing station.

As Lockie has said, it would make sense for the new station to be called 'Deakin' to give it a similar status as 'Monash'.  Failing that, I guess 'Bennettswood' could also be considered.

Ross
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Granted it is indicative only at this stage, but if this accurate they need to re-think the alignment and location of stations; Monash and Glen Waverley are stupidly located. The alignment between Cheltenham and Clayton would be far shorter if the route went as the crow flies.

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/-/media/Project/VicRoads/SuburbanRailLoop/Stations-Materials/SRL-Stage-One-rail-tunnel-alignment-and-proposed-underground-stations.pdf
chomper

In terms of the alignment, it still gets me why you wouldn't extend the route a litter further west underneath Bay Road from Southland to Sandringham to link with the existing Sandringham Line.

It just seems to make so much sense, for what would appear to be fairly minimal cost compared to the extent of tunneling required for the rest of the project.

Ross
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Foamer mention - Surely they could add a station between Cheltenham and Clayton following the alignment? They could throw in some new development, bus links to Clarinda (North of station) and Dingley Village (SE of station).
Jordy33

I think the Hawthorn Football Club are building their new training facility somewhere out that way, as their existing facility at Waverley is too small given that the developer flogged off all the surrounding land for housing.

Perhaps if a new station were to be provided in that area the new football ground could become more than just a training facility and become a major stadium in the south-east, but unlike the 1970s version - this one would have accessibility by rail!

Ross
  tom9876543 Chief Train Controller


Regarding Glen Waverley, unless the long term plan is to create another Box Hill style zone with new residential towers, it would be much better & cheaper to interchange with this line at Mt Waverley. It is a more direct path from Monash to Burwood and Box Hill. What is the compelling need to interchange at GW?
Yappo


Yappo, I agree. The line should go via Mt Waverley.
IMHO the priorities for suburban rail loop should be:
1) Get people to their employment (either white collar offices or blue collar industrial)
2) Get people to their place of study

I believe there aren't any significant commercial offices (or industrial buildings) at Glen Waverley. So rail should not go there.
Mt Waverley also doesn't have much employment, but it is shorter route.
  109portboi Beginner

Long time listener, first time caller!

Like others, I question Glen Waverley over Mount Waverley due to the extra distance, extra cost, and extra travelling time. Depends on what the purpose is. If Mount Waverley is deemed to be a future spot to 'upsize' everything then it would make sense to go there. I guess they know more than I do about this.

Also, the long distance between Southland and Clayton, with mention of a depot somewhere. I know that stations cost money, and in this case being underground they cost mega-dollars, however this is a mega-dollars project. Thoughts on a station 'somewhere' in car-dependant Clarinda? I don't know the area, just going from a map, so just wondering if it would be worthwhile to spend a ton of money for a station there.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Not even a sod turned yet and the NIMBYs are out.

Families in shock as they're told to get out for the loop

There are nine properties along with the Zinfra depot most likely being acquired.

Lockie
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Lots of comments re: Monash seem to be missing what was said in the press conference: station location also took into account of existing sensitive buildings and services and with Monash the SRL Authority leadership mentioned the new heart hospital and the synchrotron (either side of Blackburn Road north of the Blackburn/Wellington Road intersection).  i.e it's "bad" to do extensive drilling/digging near these buildings.

Plus, as someone else mentioned, the site currently houses an older student accomodation block and given the University has been slowly filling its sites around the original campus footprint, it passes the pub test that the campus will expand northwards once they've filled everything up.

And re: bus loop - the beauty of buses is that you can easily alter routes and I suspect that's what'll happen within the campus.  

If the Rowville LRT is a) still a thing and b) takes a FTG Road -> Blackburn Road (or directly via the uni campus) -> Wellington Road route, it could also be a feeder for the station.  

eg. Blue (via FTG Rd) versus Orange (Princes HWY).



Still lots to figure out but overall the Monash station location seems to work as long as there are existing network adjustments.  Plus, the entire Monash area is desginated an NEIC and VPA will probably swing in again and do more work re: how to encourage new and redevelopment over time around the station.
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
That map is very informative Tayser.

If they were to put the Monash SRL station near/under the bus loop it would only be about 1.5km from Clayton.  Considering the cost of each station and the aim to be a high-speed connector through the suburbs, having two stations that close together really reduces the footprint and effective reach of the network.

I've worked in that light industrial precinct South of the freeway and North of the university: it is a PT wasteland but there are literally thousands of blue and white collar jobs there already and a railway station nearby would drive development to include many more.

Yes, the students will have to walk (ride? shuttle?) further, but short of putting the station right under Robert Blackwood that was always going to be the case with Monash being so spread out.

I think it looks like a good planning decision.

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