Southern Model Supply C38

 
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
It’s good to see Hornby (with ARM) producing a NSW steam loco. However, I’m wondering whether there might be a possibility to produce two versions as Hornby does with some of its UK models. Then we could have the current base version along with an upgraded version at slightly higher cost with additional detail, bogie tender with power pickup and an operating headlight. Just offering this as an idea to possibly further widen the appeal of the model.
GCMotorail
Hornby haven't learnt or cared anything about Australian trains for the past 60 years. Remember that Transcontinental rubbish they used to pass off as Australian/Canadian/NZ/whatever outline back in the sixties? This is just a continuation of that effort.

It is really not that hard to produce a plastic model that's pretty close to the prototype nowadays. Why didn't they?

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  GCMotorail Station Staff

An updated version??   Aren't you able to get all that with the Eureka one?  Why reinvent the wheel?

Allan Brown
ajbrown
Yes I already have it with my streamlined Eureka 38 that I bought 10 years ago. However, I’m not keen to buy a blunt-nosed 38 from the upcoming second run at the proposed price point. My comment wasn’t aimed at criticising Eureka but instead suggesting that the Hornby model could have further potential with some upgrades at reasonable cost.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

An updated version??   Aren't you able to get all that with the Eureka one?  Why reinvent the wheel?

Allan Brown
ajbrown
The Eureka ones have problems with the driving wheels moving on the axles it was reported thus locking up the valve gear and so you might and I say might, not will, end up with a very expensive static model if that happens. Hopefully this problem is fixed on the next batch.
  a6et Minister for Railways

It’s good to see Hornby (with ARM) producing a NSW steam loco. However, I’m wondering whether there might be a possibility to produce two versions as Hornby does with some of its UK models. Then we could have the current base version along with an upgraded version at slightly higher cost with additional detail, bogie tender with power pickup and an operating headlight. Just offering this as an idea to possibly further widen the appeal of the model.
Hornby haven't learnt or cared anything about Australian trains for the past 60 years. Remember that Transcontinental rubbish they used to pass off as Australian/Canadian/NZ/whatever outline back in the sixties? This is just a continuation of that effort.

It is really not that hard to produce a plastic model that's pretty close to the prototype nowadays. Why didn't they?
apw5910
APW, from the beginning of the announcement of this model and the understanding at that time was that it was from an Australian source, my biggest issue and primarilly still is the terrible oversized extreme rivet detail on the model, that included some other areas that drop the model down in correctness. It would seem that the idea was to make sure stuff, even incorrect stuff was able to be obviously seen.  I put in that original comment the following with the belief that those producing the model would readily have been able to go to Thirlmere to capture photo's of the non streamlined 38's especially in regards to the clean lines that were very much part of the 38's design and look.

When the news came out that it was a Hornby/Lima branded model from England, a comment I made was still on those same lines but asked the question would Hornby have produced a model of any of their Express passenger locomotives such as the Gresley pacifics and others?  The answer really would be NO!  

This week I had a chance to view the model & as I reported here it did not look as bad as I originally thought, thing is though that there are still too many errors on the model for me.  Some of those errors are very much repeats of other models in the past, so those behind the model could or should have ensured the noticeable ones such as rivet and course boiler bands, along with other oversized issues with the model.  Its now been how many 38cl models have come out over the years that have had correct, firebox cladding, rather than running parrallel to the footplate its in line with the washout plugs? Interestingly I read where the original Lima 38's actually had that correct (I stand to be corrected on that).

Modellers have jumped at the cheap price of the model, and I would like a black one when they come out, thing is the cost to replace various items that at least are replaceable, but the price of the model soon goes up and by how much ? The other aspect is that I would need, how many hours trying to removed the errors and fix them, if they are fixable?

I worked on enough of them, but have more photo's of the 38's and none of them show the heavy & wrong detail of this model. I have a DJH streamlined 38, that has some of the same errors, but no where near to what is on these models, I would even say that even the Eureka ones are somewhat better but not for the cost of them though.

Finally, from what I have seen over the years of models coming out for the Oz modeller, we have really done well with the huge overall improvements in models in the world of plastic models, starting with the Austrains 36cl which is in need of some work but a good start, likewise with the early TOR diesels, but even there things have moved forward.  Over the past decade most new models have also had pre production models on show prior to them being put into production, the idea/concept being for input from the companies to go over the models so corrections could be made prior to the final mods being done and then produced.

What happened in this area for this model?  Was their pre checks to get things right?
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
An updated version??   Aren't you able to get all that with the Eureka one?  Why reinvent the wheel?

Allan Brown
ajbrown
Hi AJ   well comparing spuds to apples? My SM supply C38 pulls an 8 car Auscision Aurora up my helix, out of the box, without much wheel slip. Double headed Eureka R Class pull 6 cars up the same helix spinning drivers all the way.(1 R Class pulls 3 in full wheel slip) Fortunately I have a genius friend who stuffed 9 grams of lead around the motor and the R can do as well as the SM 38, now) I guess I am not so happy with my $799 engines as I am with my $299 one?  Just saying!
Cheers
Rod

ps Eureka use a diesel style gear on each  driving axle to move the loco along the track. They made the mistake of using very light side rods etc, as they were only along for the visual effect.  Many folk have complained that wheel slipping causes the engine to throw parts of the rods and valve gear. Just be careful. If it "aint" moving, turn it off.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
apw5910
Ha Ha!
Yep the big three or is it four now?  All want $300 to $400 for a diesel and was $165!
The same ones who sell steamers want $600 to $700 for them today and Lima used to sell the 38 for $130 not so long back

So lima climbed $130 to $300 for their 38 Steamer.
The others already dearer took their steamers from Limas $130 and Austrains $300 to $700 plus
Yep we have come a very long way!
  ajbrown Junior Train Controller

Don't forget that China's staff wages have increased over the past 20-odd years, plus cost of basic materials, shipping charges, custom charges, and on it goes.  
Nothing is the price it was 20 years ago, nor will it be 20 years from now. Accept it!

Allan Brown
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Don't forget that China's staff wages have increased over the past 20-odd years, plus cost of basic materials, shipping charges, custom charges, and on it goes.  
Nothing is the price it was 20 years ago, nor will it be 20 years from now. Accept it!

Allan Brown
ajbrown
Yes absolutely!
Just remarking on the fact that Hornby Southern had kept theirs low.  Just checking Hattons advert in England for the 38,  and they have kept the price close to normal British outline, I thought?
Cheers

Rod
  a6et Minister for Railways

Don't forget that China's staff wages have increased over the past 20-odd years, plus cost of basic materials, shipping charges, custom charges, and on it goes.  
Nothing is the price it was 20 years ago, nor will it be 20 years from now. Accept it!

Allan Brown
ajbrown
And by how much?  One of the big things with the Chinese companies, is they rely on migrant workers, that if from the rural regions, where they go for work as most of the rural locations don't have the jobs. Getting a job in Nanjing or Shenzhen areas at least provide enough income for them to go home once a year and send money home for the families.

The number of factories and businesses when they get good workers they do what they can to keep those, and provide incentives to return, if they do their train tickets to and from homes are paid for as a bonus for them.  While the prices are more expensive that 20 years ago, are all priced at relevant amounts or to fill the pockets of the owner, and leach the customer.
  sraexpress Beginner

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
Ha Ha!
Yep the big three or is it four now?  All want $300 to $400 for a diesel and was $165!
The same ones who sell steamers want $600 to $700 for them today and Lima used to sell the 38 for $130 not so long back

So lima climbed $130 to $300 for their 38 Steamer.
The others already dearer took their steamers from Limas $130 and Austrains $300 to $700 plus
Yep we have come a very long way!
comtrain
Adjusted for inflation that $130 Lima would cost over $380 in today's money... comparatively the ARM is a bargain
  a6et Minister for Railways

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
Ha Ha!
Yep the big three or is it four now?  All want $300 to $400 for a diesel and was $165!
The same ones who sell steamers want $600 to $700 for them today and Lima used to sell the 38 for $130 not so long back

So lima climbed $130 to $300 for their 38 Steamer.
The others already dearer took their steamers from Limas $130 and Austrains $300 to $700 plus
Yep we have come a very long way!
Adjusted for inflation that $130 Lima would cost over $380 in today's money... comparatively the ARM is a bargain
sraexpress
Checked Ebay lately and prices there?
  sraexpress Beginner

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
Ha Ha!
Yep the big three or is it four now?  All want $300 to $400 for a diesel and was $165!
The same ones who sell steamers want $600 to $700 for them today and Lima used to sell the 38 for $130 not so long back

So lima climbed $130 to $300 for their 38 Steamer.
The others already dearer took their steamers from Limas $130 and Austrains $300 to $700 plus
Yep we have come a very long way!
Adjusted for inflation that $130 Lima would cost over $380 in today's money... comparatively the ARM is a bargain
Checked Ebay lately and prices there?
a6et
I meant if you were to buy it new from a shop... not the insanity in the 2nd hand market that goes on on eBay!
  a6et Minister for Railways

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
Ha Ha!
Yep the big three or is it four now?  All want $300 to $400 for a diesel and was $165!
The same ones who sell steamers want $600 to $700 for them today and Lima used to sell the 38 for $130 not so long back

So lima climbed $130 to $300 for their 38 Steamer.
The others already dearer took their steamers from Limas $130 and Austrains $300 to $700 plus
Yep we have come a very long way!
Adjusted for inflation that $130 Lima would cost over $380 in today's money... comparatively the ARM is a bargain
Checked Ebay lately and prices there?
I meant if you were to buy it new from a shop... not the insanity in the 2nd hand market that goes on on eBay!
sraexpress
Actually its quite interesting as the Lima 38's have seemed to have dried up on Ebay.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

Well here is a couple of hours work yesterday on the ARM 38 class the tender at the moment. I did what David Head suggested and got some Kerroby 38 class bogies and have added them to the original underframe of the tender.  The fake side frames were easily cut away using normal plastic sheet methods score and snap off.  The boxes took a bit more work with a saw needed to rough cut it away carefully and then a sharp knife to whittle the remain plastic down.  Two pieces of 040 styrene sheet stacked on top of one another were then cut and glued to the inside top of the tender underframe between the clips on the top of it. The original metal weights were reused now screwed to the styrene sheets.  Some more 040 sheet was cut to fill up the spaces where the boxes formerly were. A piece made to hold the bogies and the coupler in place and a bit of paint put on the bogies and underside of the tender.  The bogies arrived at approx 1pm yesterday and by 6pm it was complete bar coupler installation and painting.  Total extra cost $30, $20 for the purchase of the bogies and $10 for delivery.

A fair bit of work but not that hard to do though, makes the model look far better actually and the loco should now really be able to go around any curve on a layout.  Next jobs are to install tender pickups one for each polarity, and wire them in and put a headlight into the locomotive.  Getting the headlight bits tomorrow hopefully.  Used a number 5 Kadee on the tender back and it came out near perfect as well, needed just a slight bit of fettling to get it set at correct height though as would be expected. Clipped the top back on the underframe as per the original tested and rides nicely as well.  Cutting the boxes off fixes two things one you get a better back coupler arrangement on the loco the original one was very weak and mine actually fell off just getting it out of the box as it was originally.  The other thing is now I do not need to use force to couple the tender to the loco as previously need, so that save's some strain on a part as well.

The bare washers that can be seen are going to be part of the pickups and once wired in they will be painted black.


  NSW3802 Junior Train Controller

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
Ha Ha!
Yep the big three or is it four now?  All want $300 to $400 for a diesel and was $165!
The same ones who sell steamers want $600 to $700 for them today and Lima used to sell the 38 for $130 not so long back

So lima climbed $130 to $300 for their 38 Steamer.
The others already dearer took their steamers from Limas $130 and Austrains $300 to $700 plus
Yep we have come a very long way!
Adjusted for inflation that $130 Lima would cost over $380 in today's money... comparatively the ARM is a bargain
sraexpress
If anyone would like a pair of Lima 38s there is a listing of a 3801 Limited Edition of 1500 and a standard black 3802 there is a listing on Ebay for $2,000.00 for the pair.  Maybe I should have kept mine a little longer. What is the price for a first series Dockyard model.  One can live in hope.

Les.
  Moses Wong Station Master

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
Ha Ha!
Yep the big three or is it four now?  All want $300 to $400 for a diesel and was $165!
The same ones who sell steamers want $600 to $700 for them today and Lima used to sell the 38 for $130 not so long back

So lima climbed $130 to $300 for their 38 Steamer.
The others already dearer took their steamers from Limas $130 and Austrains $300 to $700 plus
Yep we have come a very long way!
Adjusted for inflation that $130 Lima would cost over $380 in today's money... comparatively the ARM is a bargain
sraexpress
The original Lima 38 was advertised for $45.00 in 1976. The RBA time value of money calculator shows $311.50 in 2020.

The Lima IP coach was $5.00 in 1976.

So, little difference.

MJW
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Were given my  new 38 yesterday from a good friend who bought it for me.  Locos needs to be DCC'ed ( non sound)  - and the tender modified.  Have actually spent time putting in some LED strip lighting for my workbench as well to make it all go well.  

more info - later.

David
  jumbo442 Beginner

news from the little train shop in tasmania is to be the next model by arm of the c38 streamlined black red lined 3803 they have it pre order for $289.95 due around september non working headlight tender bogies ?

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