Driversview: Wendouree Railway Station (Ballarat) to Southern Cross Station

 
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Another fab video from the drivers view of the track and infrastucture

Again we see this concept of yard working when signals are working and providing the driver with a speed and permission.  I just don't understand this yard working?  The train is not in the yard.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jP0igRJHUA

Also why the normal speed warning at 16:00 into the video when there is no crossing and the train slows and then uses fuel to speed up again?  Victoria has 160 km/h running but does not seem to run trains at that speed for some reason?

Sponsored advertisement

  historian Deputy Commissioner

Also why the normal speed warning at 16:00 into the video when there is no crossing and the train slows and then uses fuel to speed up again?
NSWGR8022

The home signal at the junction with the North line is at Stop - almost certainly for an opposing movement to enter the North line.

The automatic (the 2nd automatic) before the home would have been at Medium Speed Warning (Red/Yellow) as there is only a short overlap between the home signal and the fouling point. In the old days the automatic before that (the 1st automatic) would have been at Reduce to Medium Speed, but this is frowned on these days. Instead that automatic shows Normal Speed Warning - as in the video.

There is very little difference in the actions required by the driver in the two aspect sequences. In the old aspect sequence they would have been required to brake from 160 km/h at the 1st automatic to 40 km/h (Medium Speed) at the 2nd. In the current aspect sequence they are required to brake from 160 km/h to 0 km/h (Stop). Meh. Particularly as they can release the brakes as soon as they see the 2nd automatic is not showing Stop.

The signalling is designed to work with TPWS - particularly overspeed traps. The Home signal has a 40 km/h overlap, and the automatic in the rear shows Medium Speed and has a 40 km/h overspeed trap. The distance between the automatic and the home is sufficient for the overspeed trap to stop a train from line speed (160 km/h) before fouling the other line.

You could eliminate the Medium Speed entirely. But that would require placing the Home somewhere near where the 2nd automatic is now, so that a train SPADing at 160 km/h would stop before the junction. The preceding signal would show, as now, Normal Speed Warning so that the action required of the driver would be exactly the same as the current set up. The big disadvantage with this approach is that the train would be stopped about a kilometre from the junction rather than at the junction. A tremendous waste of time starting from stop after crossing an opposing train.

This behaviour is typical of intermittent speed control systems. ETCS would eliminate this particular problem, but at a substantially increased cost. A simple ETCS would also add other problems unless you go for the expensive version.
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Again we see this concept of yard working when signals are working and providing the driver with a speed and permission. I just don't understand this yard working? The train is not in the yard.
NSWGR8022
Station limits stretches from Ballarat East to Wendouree, which is what they're trying to say. My words of advice to anyone that watches these videos is to ignore most of the commentary and graphics as they're riddled with mistakes. They were never meant for public viewing (i'm surprised V/Line hasn't had them removed from youtube) and my understanding is that there were some contractual issues between V/Line and the company contracted to make them so the mistakes were never rectified.

Also why the normal speed warning at 16:00 into the video when there is no crossing and the train slows and then uses fuel to speed up again? Victoria has 160 km/h running but does not seem to run trains at that speed for some reason?
NSWGR8022
Historian has covered it but there was a down train heading onto the North line. If you watch it on a big enough screen you can actually see it in the distance. There's no timing board provided here so the sequence is normal speed warning, medium speed warning, then stop. If the down train going onto the North line is close to being on time it is actually quicker overall to slow right down and not pass the auto with the bottom yellow and wait for it to step up to clear normal speed so you can power down the hill and up past the junction through to Gordon.

As for your comment about speed, V/Line do run their trains at line speed as much as possible. The train would have been doing 160km/h on approach to the auto with the normal speed warning. This is the best i can find with a quick search (i'm sure its on youtube somewhere) but this video shows how the perception of speed changes with different zooms on the video camera.

  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The video is dated March 2020 shows no work yet commenced on the Ballan second platform.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
The video is dated March 2020 shows no work yet commenced on the Ballan second platform.
bevans
Since the 2nd platform was substantially in place on Feb 2019, the video is considerably older than you think.
https://regionalrailrevival.vic.gov.au/ballarat/stations/ballan-station

As for slowing down for a passing train on the northern loop, that loop ceases to function (or exist ?) with the re-opening 31st January after xmas works.
Ballan itself becomes the passing site.

cheers
John
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The video is dated March 2020 shows no work yet commenced on the Ballan second platform.
Since the 2nd platform was substantially in place on Feb 2019, the video is considerably older than you think.
https://regionalrailrevival.vic.gov.au/ballarat/stations/ballan-station

As for slowing down for a passing train on the northern loop, that loop ceases to function (or exist ?) with the re-opening 31st January after xmas works.
justarider

I think March 2020 must have been the date it was uploaded not released.
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
The description states "2016 V/line trainings video from Wendouree Railway Station to Southern Cross Station. Caroline Springs Railway Station is under construction.".
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The video is dated March 2020 shows no work yet commenced on the Ballan second platform.
Since the 2nd platform was substantially in place on Feb 2019, the video is considerably older than you think.
https://regionalrailrevival.vic.gov.au/ballarat/stations/ballan-station

As for slowing down for a passing train on the northern loop, that loop ceases to function (or exist ?) with the re-opening 31st January after xmas works.
Ballan itself becomes the passing site.

cheers
John
justarider
Millbrook  Loop between the two high bridges on the early 2000,s Direct line replaces the North Line (Original route) to be abandonded with 31/01/2021 timetable.  Ballan Loop is a new additional loop also to be commissioned on 31/01/21.
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

The Millbrook - Wallace - Bungaree - Dunnstown Line expected to be booked out of use on 27/12, then closed and presumably dismantled. Hurry up for last photos or rides!
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
If the down train going onto the North line is close to being on time it is actually quicker overall to slow right down and not pass the auto with the bottom yellow and wait for it to step up to clear normal speed so you can power down the hill and up past the junction through to Gordon.
jakar
This can be a hard concept to grasp for novices. The best example of it that I have come across was on the UP RRL line between Albion and Footscray.

Once you have spent a while observing different driving styles you realise that the experienced drivers will amble past a Clear Normal Speed aspect on the run from Sunshine where the track curves left.

The amateur observer (he Sir is me Sir) may think that they are not paying attention, reading the paper, having a smoke or changing channels on the in cab stereo system.

After a few times observing the same thing out the window you realise that he/she is thinking one or 2 sticks ahead and by the time you get to the next signal it too is showing a Green over Red aspect and you are on your way at line speed.

BG
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Reading the sticks and traffic ahead and ambling (rather than racing) past clear signals has a number of advantages:
  • Provides a smoother ride for the passengers
  • Means less work for the driver
  • Probably takes no longer running time
  • Saves fuel and wear and tear
  • Maximises the annoyance and delay to cars/pedestrians waiting at level crossings
Not really any different from drifting smoothly up to the traffic lights rather than thrash, brake, stop and thrash up to the next lights .........
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The Millbrook - Wallace - Bungaree - Dunnstown Line expected to be booked out of use on 27/12, then closed and presumably dismantled. Hurry up for last photos or rides!
hbedriver

I feel personally this is not a good idea as available capacity can be useful when the time comes.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Millbrook - Wallace - Bungaree - Dunnstown Line expected to be booked out of use on 27/12, then closed and presumably dismantled. Hurry up for last photos or rides!
hbedriver
Yep, the last opportunity to see a train on the Bungaree Loop is this Sunday afternoon around 19:20.
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

Seems a bit surreal to be running at 130 km/h on a track that’s about to close. And will miss the clickety clack as we roll around through the paddocks.

Given they are opening the new Millbrook Loop (was originally to be “Spreadeagle”, a much better name), the old track really is redundant. As it should have been 60 years ago. New loop should be much quicker for all trains.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Seems a bit surreal to be running at 130 km/h on a track that’s about to close. And will miss the clickety clack as we roll around through the paddocks.

Given they are opening the new Millbrook Loop (was originally to be “Spreadeagle”, a much better name), the old track really is redundant. As it should have been 60 years ago. New loop should be much quicker for all trains.
hbedriver
I wonder if the rail from the Bungaree line can be cascade into other areas. BTW What is the rail weight for the rail here?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Seems a bit surreal to be running at 130 km/h on a track that’s about to close. And will miss the clickety clack as we roll around through the paddocks.

Given they are opening the new Millbrook Loop (was originally to be “Spreadeagle”, a much better name), the old track really is redundant. As it should have been 60 years ago. New loop should be much quicker for all trains.
I wonder if the rail from the Bungaree line can be cascade into other areas. BTW What is the rail weight for the rail here?
Duncs
Pretty sure it's 107lb/50kg rail if I'm not mistaken.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Given it was the original BG mainline to Adelaide that would be right.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Given it was the original BG mainline to Adelaide that would be right.
Duncs
107lb rail in 160 foot lengths quite useable for example to restore Inglewood to Eaglehawk to service. Also around 6000 sleepers with 15 years life left suitable for passenger use, and further 6000 with 10 years life for a freight line, rest are suitable for landscapr gardening . Releases  2 x 80 kmh mainline turnouts for use elsewhere on a mainline.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

According to the WTT  last trains via the original route via Wallace will be Sunday 28/12/2020  Down 1416  Dn Wendouree and  Up 1911 Up Wendouree.  Bringing to a conclusion over  141 years of rail operation via the original route. (The line section Gordon - Warrenheip was opened 0n 07/05/1879 completing the direct route to Ballarat. From April 1862 to May 1879 for 17 years all Ballarat trains ran via Geelong.)
(Single track to Geelong and double track from Geelong to Ballarat !!!)
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
I'm old enough to remember one night ( could be nearly 40 years ago) when the down Overland derailed on one of the tight curves on that section of track. I seem to remember that the final report blamed a bogie fault on one of the S class DE locos not being able to swivel far enough to negotiate the curve. L1150.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I'm old enough to remember one night ( could be nearly 40 years ago) when the down Overland derailed on one of the tight curves on that section of track. I seem to remember that the final report blamed a bogie fault on one of the S class DE locos not being able to swivel far enough to negotiate the curve. L1150.
L1150
Correct yes one of two S class on the Down Overdue passing through level crossing at Bungaree de-railed. CME of the day was very astute and suspected something amiss with the loco as it was recently fresh out of the shops after major overhaul. Turned out a load shedder plate was not put back in the pin assembly of the connecting the loco to the bogie. As a result going around curves the whole thing was too stiff and rigid, and the sheer forces derailed the train .
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

I wonder if the rail from the Bungaree line can be cascade into other areas. BTW What is the rail weight for the rail here?
Pretty sure it's 107lb/50kg rail if I'm not mistaken.
Carnot
How old is that rail? By my reckoning probably at least 30yrs old.

107lb and 50kg are two different sections of rail.
94lb = 47kg. 107lb = 53kg.
About 1990 BHP settled on 40kg, 50kg & 60kg as the standard rail sections for Australia.
Onesteel keeps a small stock of these sizes anticipating a certain rate of maintenance renewals. Major projects are by way of specific orders.
If you have a burning desire for 47 or 53kg these are only available by special order in limited quantities.

50kg has the same foot width as 94lb/47kg, and was intended as the replacement for same.
60kg has the same foot width as 107/53kg, and was intended as the replacement for same.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I wonder if the rail from the Bungaree line can be cascade into other areas. BTW What is the rail weight for the rail here?
Pretty sure it's 107lb/50kg rail if I'm not mistaken.
How old is that rail? By my reckoning probably at least 30yrs old.

107lb and 50kg are two different sections of rail.
94lb = 47kg. 107lb = 53kg.
About 1990 BHP settled on 40kg, 50kg & 60kg as the standard rail sections for Australia.
Onesteel keeps a small stock of these sizes anticipating a certain rate of maintenance renewals. Major projects are by way of specific orders.
If you have a burning desire for 47 or 53kg these are only available by special order in limited quantities.

50kg has the same foot width as 94lb/47kg, and was intended as the replacement for same.
60kg has the same foot width as 107/53kg, and was intended as the replacement for same.
Lockspike
The 107lb rail on that section is probably well over 50 years old, but by world standards it has still probably at least 30 years life left in a scondary line with the ends cropped and incorporated into CWR in its new life. The secret to avoiding a repetition of the Ararat - Maryborough stuff up is that VLP will have recent IEV record of any suss defects in the rail (Presumably none) as no SR's on that line section currently. Then in using same rail say in replacing flood damaged section between Inglewood and Bridgewater is to make sure you do the CWR with the right pre-tensioning within the correct ambient air temperatures on site in executing the thermit welds.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

That is very informative, thanks to Lockspike and Kuldalai. The small stock of 47 kg rail you referred to explains why I saw some of this at the level crossing at Avoca last year. On that basis all new railing in Victoria will most likely be 50kg on replacement concrete sleepers and 60 kg on mainline concrete sleepers.

BTW I recently sourced some useful information. BG Mainline sleepers weigh 307 - 310 kg, depending on construction. BG replacement sleepers are typically 235 kg. You can contrast that with BG timber sleepers at around 80 kg. With recycled plastic BG sleepers at a consistent 75 kg.

Duncs
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
According to the WTT  last trains via the original route via Wallace will be Sunday 28/12/2020  Down 1416  Dn Wendouree and  Up 1911 Up Wendouree.  Bringing to a conclusion over  141 years of rail operation via the original route. (The line section Gordon - Warrenheip was opened 0n 07/05/1879 completing the direct route to Ballarat. From April 1862 to May 1879 for 17 years all Ballarat trains ran via Geelong.)
(Single track to Geelong and double track from Geelong to Ballarat !!!)
kuldalai

Further details: http://dlvr.it/RpMB9Z

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: bevans, Duncs

Display from: