Future of Sydney’s Electric Rolling Stock (K/C/V Sets)

 
  SupremeLeaderSmeagol Junior Train Controller

One person on YouTube stated that all of the C sets would be retired, does this have any truth behind it?
I do not recommend using YouTube as your source of information.

That said, of course they will eventually be retired, and as SupremeLeaderSmeagol has pointed out, this will occur as more Bs come online.
Which is exactly why I put it on my post, to check that the information was correct

What caused the sudden withdrawal, I had always read and heard that they would not be retired until the transfer of the OSCars to suburban service?
DCook
C sets are quite unreliable - I heard they changed their plans to knock the C sets off as the new B sets come online, and then do the K sets and the whole fleet expansion thing when the OSCars become suburban stock.

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  C3765 Train Controller

After going over older material, I’ve just remembered a couple of things.

  • C2 (3603-4269-4261-3595) had been retired back in 2018 due to electrical faults.

  • C4 and C10 were withdrawn due to a pair from C4 suffering electrical faults and another pair from C10 receiving damage after a derailment incident back in March 2020.

  • The survivors of the two sets, returned as C10 in March/April 2020

  • Also a reminder that a four car C-Set is planned to preserved by SETS for now at least. It would be great if they could take the doors off of C9 and refit them on their chosen cars.

  • The remaining sets are: C1, C3, C5-14.

  • No Cars have been scrapped yet, all decomissioned cars are still at FMC.


Could somebody provide the current consist of C10? Thanks.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
  • Also a reminder that a four car C-Set is planned to preserved by SETS for now at least. It would be great if they could take the doors off of C9 and refit them on their chosen cars.
C3765
That is a great idea but I doubt that SETS will acquire any more electric carriages due to their focus on locomotives.

SETS have given very little attention to their current suburban carriage stock in the past 10 years, only 3 of their carriages are stored undercover at Bilpin while the rest are rusting away at Molong and Chullora. Their U sets have faced a much better fate with all but one stored undercover. Rather than spend money on new stock they should spend that money moving their current stock undercover rather than on paddocks and abandoned sidings.

Almost all of their plans are on the locomotives, 8649 is fairly close to completion and once it is operational 8644 will be reactivated as a spare. I have also heard that plans are being made to reactivate 8501, however this would be quite expensive and would require far more work than any of the 86s.

I believe in most cases the scrappers have a contract to scrap all carriages and to not sell any, this would also be a major hurdle.

I do not mean for this to be a attack at SETS, they have great objectives and plans but they do have some substantial problems

For all the people that will say "if you want them to take more care of their stock then help them out", I would help them but due to time restrictions and my age (or lack of) I cannot.
  C3765 Train Controller

That is a great idea but I doubt that SETS will acquire any more electric carriages due to their focus on locomotives.
DCook
You could be right but they did say:
As regards plannned preservation of other 1980s electric stock, the current draft policy for the NSW State-owned collection is:- "Our Transport Heritage NSW Collections & Curatorial Committee has recommended no C or K sets be retained, however that a four-car interurban V set be set aside for future heritage operations and one trailer car for static display." So like retention of a complete Monorail set, it appears that preservation of examples of K-set and C-set 1980s electric trains will be left entirely to SETS.
SETS
I believe in most cases the scrappers have a contract to scrap all carriages and to not sell any, this would also be a major hurdle.
DCook


It could be a possible hurdle but they did acquire a four-car S Set so I don’t think it’s too big of a problem

SETS have given very little attention to their current suburban carriage stock in the past 10 years, only 3 of their carriages are stored undercover at Bilpin while the rest are rusting away at Molong and Chullora. Their U sets have faced a much better fate with all but one stored undercover. Rather than spend money on new stock they should spend that money moving their current stock undercover rather than on paddocks and abandoned sidings.
DCook

I’m pretty sure they would want to purchase new stock that can be stored at FMC/ Chullora, ready to run on a tour, instead of moving stock that is not gonna run anytime soon. They could potentially move all their assets to Chullora when they complete the heritage hub there.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I believe in most cases the scrappers have a contract to scrap all carriages and to not sell any, this would also be a major hurdle.


It could be a possible hurdle but they did acquire a four-car S Set so I don’t think it’s too big of a problem

SETS have given very little attention to their current suburban carriage stock in the past 10 years, only 3 of their carriages are stored undercover at Bilpin while the rest are rusting away at Molong and Chullora. Their U sets have faced a much better fate with all but one stored undercover. Rather than spend money on new stock they should spend that money moving their current stock undercover rather than on paddocks and abandoned sidings.

I’m pretty sure they would want to purchase new stock that can be stored at FMC/ Chullora, ready to run on a tour, instead of moving stock that is not gonna run anytime soon. They could potentially move all their assets to Chullora when they complete the heritage hub there.
C3765
Since when did SETS acquire a 4 car set? Nothing is mentioned on their website or facebook page about them owning an S set. All 4 retained sets are in the ownership of TfNSW, three for operational use and one for static display

It does not matter that their single deck carriages are not operational, they are still historical artifacts and need to be protected from the elements accordingly.
  C3765 Train Controller

Since when did SETS acquire a 4 car set? Nothing is mentioned on their website or facebook page about them owning an S set. All 4 retained sets are in the ownership of TfNSW, three for operational use and one for static display
DCook
Sorry, you’re right about that.
  C3765 Train Controller

As the fleet grows with the introduction of the second batch of Waratah Series 2 B-Set trains, the process of slowly withdrawing the silver sets from all day runs has commenced. As you probably know with the introduction of minor adjustments to the timetable beginning on the 25th of October 2020, the two 4-Car OP K-Sets from Monday will be timetabled as M-Sets. So far, AFAIK no other changes have been made. K-Sets will probably have more of a back-up role much like the S-Sets between 2014 and 2017 as more B-Sets are delivered.

As of 25/10/20:

C-Sets: Runs 25-30 (6x 8-Car Sets)

K-Sets: Runs 31-45, 839, 841. (17x 8-Car Sets)

In some cases, you may get a different train.

Other very minor changes can be found here:
https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/minor-train-timetable-changes-from-25-october


More updates as things happen!
  C3765 Train Controller

As the fleet grows with the introduction of the second batch of Waratah Series 2 B-Set trains, the process of slowly withdrawing the silver sets from all day runs has commenced. As you probably know with the introduction of minor adjustments to the timetable beginning on the 25th of October 2020, the two 4-Car OP K-Sets from Monday will be timetabled as M-Sets. Although they are rostered as M-Sets, it doesn’t necessarily mean they will always be M-Sets. I’m sure K-Sets will continue to run to Olympic Park from time to time for faulty M-Sets or special event services. So far, AFAIK no other changes have been made as part of the adjustments. K-Sets will probably slowly transition to more of a back-up role much like the S-Sets between 2014 and 2017 as more B-Sets are delivered.

As of 25/10/20:

C-Sets: Runs 25-30 (6x 8-Car Sets)

K-Sets: Runs 31-47 (17x 8-Car Sets)

In some cases, you may get a different train.

Other very minor changes can be found here:
https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/minor-train-timetable-changes-from-25-october


More updates as things happen!
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
The current consist of C10 is C3604, T4270, T4255, C3594.
This means that C3589 and T4260 are the retired carriages of C4 while C3587 and T4253 are the retired carriages of C10
  C3765 Train Controller

As predicted a four car K-Set was brought in to replace a defective M-Set today, 03/11/20.
K 73 on run L1.
  C3765 Train Controller

C9 on Run L2 today, 04/11/20
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
TOC Wavier 203-983, dated 05/11/2020- 05/05/2021 has been issued on the TfNSW website for the movement of C set carriages from FMC to Flemington South Junction, this appears to be for all the C set carriages.
Does anyone have any information regarding this movement?

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/asa_standards/2020/tw-203-983.pdf
  C3765 Train Controller

Not really a surprise but Howard Collins revealed the first of the V-Sets to go won’t be decommissioned until next year.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Not really a surprise but Howard Collins revealed the first of the V-Sets to go won’t be decommissioned until next year.
C3765
We would not be expecting them to go until such a time the NIF arrives into service.
  Sydney Metro Vlogs Locomotive Driver

Location: On H1 in car OD6901
TOC Wavier 203-983, dated 05/11/2020- 05/05/2021 has been issued on the TfNSW website for the movement of C set carriages from FMC to Flemington South Junction, this appears to be for all the C set carriages.
Does anyone have any information regarding this movement?

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/asa_standards/2020/tw-203-983.pdf
DCook
Seems like "under mass" would be another term for stripped of parts, so this is likely for transferring to Chullora for scrapping.
  PeeJay Junior Train Controller

Location: Riverstone NSW
a. Trailer car mass not to be less than 36.7t (corresponding to removed MG143 motor alternator only).
b. Motor car mass not to be less than 40.8t (corresponding to removed compressor and dryer, chopper unit, traction motors, and gate racks only)
  C3765 Train Controller

The current consist of C10 is C3604, T4270, T4255, C3594. This means that C3589 and T4260 are the retired carriages of C4 while C3587 and T4253 are the retired carriages of C10
DCook

Are you sure about the current consist? C4 is currently in the process of getting stripped of parts and the consist is C3594–T4255–T4260–C3589 so C10 should be C3587–T4253–T4270–C3604.
  Sydney Metro Vlogs Locomotive Driver

Location: On H1 in car OD6901
I have a few questions about this:

Does anyone have updates about C Set retirement? Have any been scrapped or transferred yet?

Does anyone know any run numbers or dates for C Set transfers?

I have been told that V25 (DIM8041, DET9216, DCT9039, DIM8039) is going to be the heritage set. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks
  David10 Station Master

Noticed that said set V25 has just had an exterior repaint.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I have been told that V25 (DIM8041, DET9216, DCT9039, DIM8039) is going to be the heritage set. Can anyone confirm this?
Sydney Metro Vlogs
And you heard this information from whom?

I've heard nothing through official channels yet, and imagine it is still too early to be solid on a decision. Depends on the condition of the cars.
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
I have been told that V25 (DIM8041, DET9216, DCT9039, DIM8039) is going to be the heritage set. Can anyone confirm this?
And you heard this information from whom?

I've heard nothing through official channels yet, and imagine it is still too early to be solid on a decision. Depends on the condition of the cars.
s3_gunzel
2 days ago. There was someone telling me (I'm not going to say their name to protect their privacy) about the last V Set having a renovation. And saying that train will be preserved. And that they were going to have a Heritage Event with that train soon. He didn't tell me what the train number was. If that train is what that person is saying. Well then yes!
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I have been told that V25 (DIM8041, DET9216, DCT9039, DIM8039) is going to be the heritage set. Can anyone confirm this?
And you heard this information from whom?

I've heard nothing through official channels yet, and imagine it is still too early to be solid on a decision. Depends on the condition of the cars.
2 days ago. There was someone telling me (I'm not going to say their name to protect their privacy) about the last V Set having a renovation. And saying that train will be preserved. And that they were going to have a Heritage Event with that train soon. He didn't tell me what the train number was. If that train is what that person is saying. Well then yes!
AheadMatthewawsome
There might be something in it as these former driver trailers are supposed to be the first scrapped. However, I am not sure what is so special about DET9216 other than it being the ex-Contura car? DCT9039 might have its controls re-instated so a 2 car set can be run for heritage runs.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I have been told that V25 (DIM8041, DET9216, DCT9039, DIM8039) is going to be the heritage set. Can anyone confirm this?
And you heard this information from whom?

I've heard nothing through official channels yet, and imagine it is still too early to be solid on a decision. Depends on the condition of the cars.
2 days ago. There was someone telling me (I'm not going to say their name to protect their privacy) about the last V Set having a renovation. And saying that train will be preserved. And that they were going to have a Heritage Event with that train soon. He didn't tell me what the train number was. If that train is what that person is saying. Well then yes!
There might be something in it as these former driver trailers are supposed to be the first scrapped. However, I am not sure what is so special about DET9216 other than it being the ex-Contura car? DCT9039 might have its controls re-instated so a 2 car set can be run for heritage runs.
nswtrains
THNSW have confirmed that a four car set will be retained for operational use.
If anything, I would expect tours with the V sets to be quite popular, I personally believe that they will be more popular than S set tours.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
There was someone telling me (I'm not going to say their name to protect their privacy) about the last V Set having a renovation.
AheadMatthewawsome


Right. Means nothing. Continue.

And saying that train will be preserved.
AheadMatthewawsome


Means nothing, continue.

And that they were going to have a Heritage Event with that train soon.
AheadMatthewawsome


Maybe, but that doesn’t mean that set is being preserved. Especially if that person is in SETS. Cars will be preserved based on condition, not foamer status, as was the case for the S Set cars that were not historically significant.

9216 is not historically significant, in that, just because it was gutted doesn't mean it needs to be in heritage.

He didn't tell me what the train number was.
AheadMatthewawsome


Good-o - you’re spreading a rumour. Glad we got that sorted out.
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
@s3_gunzel Why do you hate me? All that I'm trying to do is my best here to help others! Please don't reply with "Well, your best isn't good enough". It won't help. I'm not the best with Social Skills and Sarcasm. But it just seems like every word I speak, you shut me down. Being honest. I am doing a project called 'Secrets of Sydney Trains'. It's a parody of 'Secrets of the Underground'. But I've stopped it until further notice. Because I get so stressed and be in the brink of going nuts filming and editing it. Because I get worried every time that even though I put my heart and soul into it. It becomes a failure because only people like you watch it, and would hate on it until the cows come home! And it's not like I just made it up one day and shoved a camera to the train line. It was a plan for years! And I couldn't do it until now, because I didn't had the right equipment. And if you tell me that your the only one to do it. Forget it! Because there are lots more other people like you who do this to me. But they do far worse than you would ever imagine. And don't go telling me that it's all a lie.
Because 1, it's not a lie.
And 2, it's been told to me many times before!
So, Good Day!

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