High Capacity Metro Trains (HCMT) Order

 
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Is it likely these trains might be used for the Airport Line or the DRL or both?

Could be good for capacity.
NSWGR8022
Yes for Airport. These will be the only trains on the Aiport Line, as they will go through Metro Tunnel requiring they meet the platform screen doors in the inner city.

Suburban Rail Loop will be smaller trains - 4 cars only, and probably closer to Metro stock as seen in major cities around the world like London or New York. They could even end up closer to Light Rail Metro like the DLR in London.

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  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Yes for Airport. These will be the only trains on the Aiport Line, as they will go through Metro Tunnel requiring they meet the platform screen doors in the inner city.

Suburban Rail Loop will be smaller trains - 4 cars only, and probably closer to Metro stock as seen in major cities around the world like London or New York. They could even end up closer to Light Rail Metro like the DLR in London.
TOQ-1
Agreed. With the Metro tunnel now taking airport trains (hence HCMTs) there's little chance that the SRL will now go via Sunshine as it will be very unlikely that the two trains will be able to interface.

For the SRL I'm expecting metro trains capable of 130km/hr, similar to that found on the new lines in Singapore with 4 cars initially but expandable to 6, 4 or 5 doors per carriage per side. Station boxes to be built at 100m to 120m long, half that of the metro tunnel.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Is it likely these trains might be used for the Airport Line or the DRL or both?

Could be good for capacity.
Yes for Airport. These will be the only trains on the Aiport Line, as they will go through Metro Tunnel requiring they meet the platform screen doors in the inner city.

Suburban Rail Loop will be smaller trains - 4 cars only, and probably closer to Metro stock as seen in major cities around the world like London or New York. They could even end up closer to Light Rail Metro like the DLR in London.
TOQ-1
Oh come on.

Limit the scope of the next gen of rolling stock to the limitations of 19th century tunnel technology.

London are forced to limit themselves to fitting into a 3.6m tunnel. Hence the "metro stock" is squeezy, rounded, with litle headroom. And the dangerous 3rd rail.
New York just marginally bigger, they went the square trench approach.

Wheras modern tunnels, like Melbourne Underground Loop and MM1 are about 7m tunnels which easily accomodate standard passenger stock.

Melbourne does not have the huge economy of scale necessary, to support multiple diverse and incompatible technologies.

cheers
John
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Ringwood doesn't have CBTC.
route14
The train does not need CBTC to operate.
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Video posted on Youtube (not mine) which shows units 24 ready for transfer to East Pakenham and 25 in process of being coupled together

E024 and 025

Neil
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Is it likely these trains might be used for the Airport Line or the DRL or both?

Could be good for capacity.
Yes for Airport. These will be the only trains on the Aiport Line, as they will go through Metro Tunnel requiring they meet the platform screen doors in the inner city.

Suburban Rail Loop will be smaller trains - 4 cars only, and probably closer to Metro stock as seen in major cities around the world like London or New York. They could even end up closer to Light Rail Metro like the DLR in London.
Oh come on.

Limit the scope of the next gen of rolling stock to the limitations of 19th century tunnel technology.

London are forced to limit themselves to fitting into a 3.6m tunnel. Hence the "metro stock" is squeezy, rounded, with litle headroom. And the dangerous 3rd rail.
New York just marginally bigger, they went the square trench approach.

Wheras modern tunnels, like Melbourne Underground Loop and MM1 are about 7m tunnels which easily accomodate standard passenger stock.

Melbourne does not have the huge economy of scale necessary, to support multiple diverse and incompatible technologies.

cheers
John
justarider
Just for Information. The London Underground has two types. The type you are referring to is for the deep level Tubes (Bakerloo, Central, Jubilee, Northern, Piccadilly and Victoria Lines). They also have the sub surface lines (Circle, District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan Lines) which are to Main Line standards, using cut and cover, hence they are much shallower. The London Underground also use the 4th Rail system at 630v dc.

I am not sure that the Docklands Light Railway system would be suitable for a railway of this length. It is more likely that they will go more for a 4 car version of the Sydney Metro Trains.


Michael
  drunkill Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
And they're in service today, well at least one of them?

  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
And they're in service today, well at least one of them?

drunkill
"Test train", "Locked - no Access" plastered on the doors and windows, which would mean no-one is on board, other than authorised test personnel.
Test trains like this are all over social media but none are in service yet, not until the new timetable at the end of January from all accounts

Neil
  historian Deputy Commissioner

First in service passenger run today... First Up from Pakenham and corresponding Down.

Eastern driving car was 9911. Someone else can work out the set number.

The normal passengers were a bit perplexed at the number of passengers with expensive cameras taking pictures of everything.

My review? The door buttons don't work.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
My review? The door buttons don't work.
historian
Welcome to the Hotel California..
  Carnot Minister for Railways

All very CCP - welcome onboard, but you'll never be released....
  loopy Junior Train Controller

Obviously word has gone out that the HCMT has been in service today, I couldn't have gone on it due to living on another line and no announcement of it even running prior to it running, so not my fault. I'm a bit annoyed that it's only running as a PR stunt so it's "in service" by the end of 2020 [bit like the faulty X'trap that was "in service" to Glen Waverley at the end of 2009]. Does anyone know when it's operating again so I have plenty of notice?
  bloodied_wombat Beginner

All very CCP - welcome onboard, but you'll never be released....
Carnot
Tried to find a stupider comment than this anywhere on the internet today. But I was unable ...
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Not true hilarious comment
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Here this might help
Eagles

Hotel California is the fifth studio album by American rock band the Eagles. The album was recorded by Bill Szymczyk at the Criteria and Record Plant studios between March and October 1976, and then released on Asylum in December. It was their first album with guitarist Joe Walsh, who had replaced founding member Bernie Leadon, and is the last album to feature bassist Randy Meisner. The front cover is a photograph of the Beverly Hills Hotel by David Alexander.

Lyrics

On a dark desert highway
Cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of colitas
Rising up through the air
Up ahead in the distance
I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim
I had to stop for the night
There she stood in the doorway
I heard the mission bell
And I was thinkin' to myself
'This could be heaven or this could be hell
Then she lit up a candle
And she showed me the way
There were voices down the corridor
I thought I heard them say
Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year (any time of year)
You can find it here
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted
She got the Mercedes bends, uh
She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys
That she calls friends
How they dance in the courtyard
Sweet summer sweat
Some dance to remember
Some dance to forget
So I called up the Captain
"Please bring me my wine"
He said, "We haven't had that spirit here since 1969"
And still those voices are calling from far away
Wake you up in the middle of the night
Just to hear them say
Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
They livin' it up at the Hotel California
What a nice surprise (what a nice surprise)
Bring your alibis
Mirrors on the ceiling
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, "We are all just prisoners here of our own device"
And in the master's chambers
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax", said the night man
"We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave"



DJ Doyle yo man yo
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
All very CCP - welcome onboard, but you'll never be released....
Carnot
Look at all this Chinese Crap, Why don't governments buy locally!

  CricketBall Beginner

Given the delays in getting the train out, I am keen to know how safe everyone would feel if you were to ride on the HCMT?

i.e. if a High Capacity train pulls up at the next station, would you feel more comfortable waiting for a Comeng or Siemens to come along next?
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

I was lucky enough to ride the HCMT today. These were my impressions:
  • Excellent, smooth ride. Puts the X-traps to shame (not a high bar) and is as good if not better than the Siemens.
  • Really quiet. From the inside it sounds like a quieter Waratah train when it accelerates (not the immediate acceleration, but the acceleration just before it reaches a constant speed).
  • Announcements were difficult to hear on the way in to the city when it was busy. They need a way of adjusting this relative to the amount of passengers on board.
  • Lack of hand straps between the two seating aisles, despite there being a significant amount of standing room (probably room for three, maybe four in crush conditions, adults in non-Covid times: two columns holding the rails, the others hoping they are wedged in well enough).
  • Buttons were a nuisance.
  • Really good passenger information displays. I was very impressed by the diagrams of which lines you could interchange for at the city stations, as well as them showing which side the doors were going to open on.
  • Pleasing enough internal design aesthetically
  • Seats were more comfortable than expected. They don't feel like you've got rock hard plastic behind you, although it's not like you're in a cinema either.
Overall it was an enjoyable ride. It was full of trainspotters, and there were even more at a lot of the stations filming it as it went through. The staff got into the jolly mood, recognising the significance of the event and thankfully not kicking up a fuss for them accidentally being filmed as 100 gunzels walked through documenting the internal layout.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Given the delays in getting the train out, I am keen to know how safe everyone would feel if you were to ride on the HCMT?

i.e. if a High Capacity train pulls up at the next station, would you feel more comfortable waiting for a Comeng or Siemens to come along next?
CricketBall
They have a high degree of local content and have been largely assembled here by local labour.  Way overdue to introduction but past experience both here and in NSW is that there are always protracted delays and issues in introducing new trains. The new breed of transport bureaucracies think that all you have to do is write a spec for a new train and all will be honky dory. But the expectation that longer trains of greater capacity  (16 pax weigh a tonne !!!) will only consume a tad more power than now, is un-realistic in that the entire Melbourne power supply probably needs a major upgrade to support the increased number of and longer trains running in the future. The current power supply system does not allow for the benefits of regenerative braking to be realized in that our more recent trains have that ability but it cannot be realized because of our archaic power supply system.  

The HCMT has been tested to death and to suggest that it would be introduced unless entirely safe is unwise/ The majority of punters will eagerly get on any train especially if it is new, arrives on schedule, offers a seat and actually runs as scheduled - something that DOT needs to focus on more .
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Given the delays in getting the train out, I am keen to know how safe everyone would feel if you were to ride on the HCMT?

i.e. if a High Capacity train pulls up at the next station, would you feel more comfortable waiting for a Comeng or Siemens to come along next?
CricketBall
Anything but a stinking non-airconditioned Comeng Covid incubator.
Always catch the first available train - the next one might be a bus in an hour or two ...............Rolling Eyes
  Djebel Locomotive Driver

Given the delays in getting the train out, I am keen to know how safe everyone would feel if you were to ride on the HCMT?

i.e. if a High Capacity train pulls up at the next station, would you feel more comfortable waiting for a Comeng or Siemens to come along next?
CricketBall
The Siemens Nexus trains with dodgy brakes?  I'll wait for the HCMT, thanks.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Seats were more comfortable than expected. They don't feel like you've got rock hard plastic behind you, although it's not like you're in a cinema either.
reubstar6
So, better than a Siemens (not that there's much needed for that, the metal seats on the platforms might be more comfortable).
  historian Deputy Commissioner

The new breed of transport bureaucracies think that all you have to do is write a spec for a new train and all will be honky dory.

But the expectation that longer trains of greater capacity  (16 pax weigh a tonne !!!) will only consume a tad more power than now, is un-realistic in that the entire Melbourne power supply probably needs a major upgrade to support the increased number of and longer trains running in the future.
kuldalai

1) They didn't think that, of course. That's why they wrote into the contract an extensive testing and run-in period. And that run-in period found significant issues. An underlying part of the problem, of course, is that modern trains are much more complex than the classic Taits, Harris', Silvers, and even Comengs.

2) I don't know about the Sunbury line, but they've spent the last two years or more beefing up the power supply system on the Dandenong line. That's been one of the hidden features of the grade separations. New, much larger, substations. Have a look at the size of the new feeds from the Caulfield substation to the overhead - massive copper cables. Additional drops from the substation parallelling the overhead - three or four additional wires the size of the contact wire all the way along. New, much stronger, O/H structures to take the weight and pull of the additional feeders. And where the O/H structures have been reused (e.g. South Yarra) the old structures have been braced to take the load. Much, much, larger cables to the IRJs for the return current.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
2) I don't know about the Sunbury line, but they've spent the last two years or more beefing up the power supply system on the Dandenong line. That's been one of the hidden features of the grade separations. New, much larger, substations. Have a look at the size of the new feeds from the Caulfield substation to the overhead - massive copper cables. Additional drops from the substation parallelling the overhead - three or four additional wires the size of the contact wire all the way along. New, much stronger, O/H structures to take the weight and pull of the additional feeders. And where the O/H structures have been reused (e.g. South Yarra) the old structures have been braced to take the load. Much, much, larger cables to the IRJs for the return current.
historian
Sunbury line has certainly been getting beefed up stanchions and overhead gantrys, many are done with the remainder scattered about the place waiting for installation

I am not sure about the wiring, subs etc but one would presume that as the HCMTs are going to be running to Sunbury that it would be getting the same treatment as Dandy
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Going by what's in today's Herald-Sun the HCMT's might not be running to Sunbury, but instead to the Airport as that line has apparently been announced. Though the question on whether that station will stay a terminus is currently an ball in the air for a plan is to continue to Broadmeadows to meet the SRL

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