Murray Basin standardisation

 
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
Murray Basin Rail Project Mark2 gets funding:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7057363/federal-basin-rail-rescue-package/?cs=4786

A few other interesting bits and pieces on Manang line and yet another business case for further Standardisation.my wmt
Carnot
my worry about this half baked plan is who is going to implement it / V/line?

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Murray Basin Rail Project Mark2 gets funding:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7057363/federal-basin-rail-rescue-package/?cs=4786

A few other interesting bits and pieces on Manang line and yet another business case for further Standardisation.my wmt
my worry about this half baked plan is who is going to implement it / V/line?
ozfreight
Same people as last time?
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
The two BG branches are busier than the SG currently. I suspect they would be even more busy if paths allowed it. Firstly, any maintenance should be carried out by Vline as part of their obligation to maintain all tracks under their ownership. Why should we be wasting the funds from Federal Government on basic track maintenance and sleeper renewal? Surely all the extra funding has to go towards the project goals /aims themselves? Vline need to be held accountable for their lack of maintenance!
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Murray Basin Rail Project Mark2 gets funding:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7057363/federal-basin-rail-rescue-package/?cs=4786

A few other interesting bits and pieces on Manang line and yet another business case for further Standardisation.my wmt
my worry about this half baked plan is who is going to implement it / V/line?
ozfreight
I think its been handed over to Rail Projects Victoria.
  Tii Locomotive Driver

Murray Basin Rail Project Mark2 gets funding:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7057363/federal-basin-rail-rescue-package/?cs=4786

A few other interesting bits and pieces on Manang line and yet another business case for further Standardisation.my wmt
my worry about this half baked plan is who is going to implement it / V/line?
I think its been handed over to Rail Projects Victoria work. in. Vic public hospital healthcare- I hope RPV can do. a better job than our shambles of a system the past 30 years.

james.au
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Murray Basin Rail Project Mark2 gets funding:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7057363/federal-basin-rail-rescue-package/?cs=4786

A few other interesting bits and pieces on Manang line and yet another business case for further Standardisation.my wmt
my worry about this half baked plan is who is going to implement it / V/line?
I think its been handed over to Rail Projects Victoria work. in. Vic public hospital healthcare- I hope RPV can do. a better job than our shambles of a system the past 30 years.

Tii
Bueller... Bueller... Bueller... Fry... Fry... Fry.......
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
The two BG branches are busier than the SG currently. I suspect they would be even more busy if paths allowed it. Firstly, any maintenance should be carried out by Vline as part of their obligation to maintain all tracks under their ownership. Why should we be wasting the funds from Federal Government on basic track maintenance and sleeper renewal? Surely all the extra funding has to go towards the project goals /aims themselves? Vline need to be held accountable for their lack of maintenance!
cbinyon
Yet Again more Proof of the superiority of Broad Gauge Very Happy
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Murray Basin Rail Project Mark2 gets funding:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7057363/federal-basin-rail-rescue-package/?cs=4786

A few other interesting bits and pieces on Manang line and yet another business case for further Standardisation.my wmt
my worry about this half baked plan is who is going to implement it / V/line?
I think its been handed over to Rail Projects Victoria work. in. Vic public hospital healthcare- I hope RPV can do. a better job than our shambles of a system the past 30 years.

Tii

V/Line sacked on the major rail projects and about time.   RPV now responsible for the bigger projects but this update is hardly a bigger project more like routine maintenance.

Will they also fix the issues in Mildura as Lachlan has pointed our several times?
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Re railing should be easy. When I was at Avoca this time last year, the rail at the level crossings was: One Steel 2017 47 KG. So a recent installation.

But 20 meters up the track and the rail was dated 1919 and 41 kg  (in today's measurements) so clearly no longer fit for purpose. The sleepers are replacement concrete sleepers, so at 225 kg each you have plenty of track stability.

All you need is some new 47 kg rail and .... done!

Oh by the way, some fresh 47 kg rail can also be used to upgrade the rest of the line to Mildura as well. When I was in Mildura in 2017, I saw some rail dated 1937. It was 47 kg in today's measurements. Time for it to be replaced as well.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Re railing should be easy. When I was at Avoca this time last year, the rail at the level crossings was: One Steel 2017 47 KG. So a recent installation.

But 20 meters up the track and the rail was dated 1919 and 41 kg  (in today's measurements) so clearly no longer fit for purpose. The sleepers are replacement concrete sleepers, so at 225 kg each you have plenty of track stability.

All you need is some new 47 kg rail and .... done!

Oh by the way, some fresh 47 kg rail can also be used to upgrade the rest of the line to Mildura as well. When I was in Mildura in 2017, I saw some rail dated 1937. It was 47 kg in today's measurements. Time for it to be replaced as well.
Duncs
It still means that you have nearly 160 km of rail (2x80km) to install and weld.  Not a small job.

Btw, some of the rail on the Manangatang line is in a terrible state.  It's badly corroded and worn-out in places.  I've seen photos of big chunks of steel missing on the railhead.  It's an utter disgrace.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I agree. But this is where we have to start. I am not surprised about Manangatang. Another case for re railing ... asap.
  PeeJay Junior Train Controller

Location: Riverstone NSW
In NSW many of the busier branch lines were upgraded with rail recovered from track renewal projects in the metro area. (All 47 kg and above AFAIK). Is this a possibility in Vic?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
In NSW many of the busier branch lines were upgraded with rail recovered from track renewal projects in the metro area. (All 47 kg and above AFAIK). Is this a possibility in Vic?
PeeJay
They have already partially done that with rail salvaged for the Cobram Spur and Castlemaine-Marybourgh Line. Most of the Track stuffs from the LX removals have gone to Heritage operators.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

In NSW many of the busier branch lines were upgraded with rail recovered from track renewal projects in the metro area. (All 47 kg and above AFAIK). Is this a possibility in Vic?
PeeJay
There wasn't a lot of 47kg in NSW mainlines. Generally speaking, NSW made the leap from 40kg to 53kg. It started in the 1930s, gained momentum post WW2, and was completed about 1970.

Most of the 47kg branches had that rail installed new circa 1970s.

From about 1980 as 60kg replaced 53kg in the mainlines (metropolitan and country) the 53kg was cascaded to the rural branch lines; 30kg to 53kg was quite an upgrade! There are a number of locations where you go onto bigger rail as you go from a secondary line to a 'pioneer' branch line.

53kg on steel sleepers makes as near as you can get to a maintenance free branchline.
  PeeJay Junior Train Controller

Location: Riverstone NSW

Most of the 47kg branches had that rail installed new circa 1970s.

From about 1980 as 60kg replaced 53kg in the mainlines (metropolitan and country) the 53kg was cascaded to the rural branch lines; 30kg to 53kg was quite an upgrade! There are a number of locations where you go onto bigger rail as you go from a secondary line to a 'pioneer' branch line.

53kg on steel sleepers makes as near as you can get to a maintenance free branchline.
Lockspike


Ahh I had my sizes mixed up. Thanks.
Victoria could sure learn a thing or two about how to do "Maintaince Free" track. And ARTC...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Yet Again more Proof of the superiority of Broad Gauge Very Happy
Dangersdan707

No just how incompetent the gauge conversion project was done. If NSW extended the old rail line to Hay and many of the riverina towns that used to have a rail line I wonder how well your Broad Gauge would do then.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Yet Again more Proof of the superiority of Broad Gauge Very Happy

No just how incompetent the gauge conversion project was done. If NSW extended the old rail line to Hay and many of the riverina towns that used to have a rail line I wonder how well your Broad Gauge would do then.
simstrain
I wonder why you have a habit of replying to my posts a fair while after I posted them, and at the very minimum using the correct grammer!
I myself wonder what the world would be like if you let the VR build more BG Branches into NSW, boy we'd of reached Wagga Wagga or Junee years before the NSWGR ever did!

Sadly we are beyond what ifs, whats done is done.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Yet Again more Proof of the superiority of Broad Gauge Very Happy

No just how incompetent the gauge conversion project was done. If NSW extended the old rail line to Hay and many of the riverina towns that used to have a rail line I wonder how well your Broad Gauge would do then.
I wonder why you have a habit of replying to my posts a fair while after I posted them, and at the very minimum using the correct grammer!
I myself wonder what the world would be like if you let the VR build more BG Branches into NSW, boy we'd of reached Wagga Wagga or Junee years before the NSWGR ever did!

Sadly we are beyond what ifs, what's done is done.
Dangersdan707
And if Victoria had extended their BG further into NSW can one just imagine the additional kilometres of:
  • Closed lines
  • Booked out lines
  • Kilometres of unmaintained lines
  • Kilometres of speed restrictions
  • Kilometres of light axleloads
  • Kilometres of decayed/broken/dodgy sleepers
  • Kilometres of suspect rails
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Yet Again more Proof of the superiority of Broad Gauge Very Happy

No just how incompetent the gauge conversion project was done. If NSW extended the old rail line to Hay and many of the riverina towns that used to have a rail line I wonder how well your Broad Gauge would do then.
I wonder why you have a habit of replying to my posts a fair while after I posted them, and at the very minimum using the correct grammer!
I myself wonder what the world would be like if you let the VR build more BG Branches into NSW, boy we'd of reached Wagga Wagga or Junee years before the NSWGR ever did!

Sadly we are beyond what ifs, whats done is done.
Dangersdan707
English grammar, not grammer  !!!

Observed outside Flinders St under the clocks early 1950,s English Grammar at its' best, under the clock for NEXT TRAIN to Broadmeadows >    :

She to He enquiringly -  "  I came 'ere, I got 'ere, youse wasn't 'ere, where was youse ?"
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Yet Again more Proof of the superiority of Broad Gauge Very Happy

No just how incompetent the gauge conversion project was done. If NSW extended the old rail line to Hay and many of the riverina towns that used to have a rail line I wonder how well your Broad Gauge would do then.
I wonder why you have a habit of replying to my posts a fair while after I posted them, and at the very minimum using the correct grammer!
I myself wonder what the world would be like if you let the VR build more BG Branches into NSW, boy we'd of reached Wagga Wagga or Junee years before the NSWGR ever did!

Sadly we are beyond what ifs, what's done is done.
And if Victoria had extended their BG further into NSW can one just imagine the additional kilometres of:
  • Closed lines
  • Booked out lines
  • Kilometres of unmaintained lines
  • Kilometres of speed restrictions
  • Kilometres of light axleloads
  • Kilometres of decayed/broken/dodgy sleepers
  • Kilometres of suspect rails
YM-Mundrabilla
So basically all the closed rotting Branches that litter rural NSW today?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'So basically all the closed rotting Branches that litter rural NSW today?'

Just that there would be many more, albeit BG, closed and rotting lines in NSW - bit like the both open and closed BG lines that litter Victoria today. Smile
  Z VAN Junior Train Controller

Besides money one of the problems with the project discovered after the initial go ahead was. 'How do we fit the standard gauge line through Ballarat Station'.
Posted on this site by NSWGR8022 is a video clip of 'A Drivers view from Wendouree to Southern Cross'.
I noticed that there seemed to be plenty of room for extra tracks through Ballarat Station.
Checking Mark Bau's excellent Victorian Railways site he has included a diagram of the Ballarat track layout from pre 1980's rationalisation that shows four roads through the station and three up to and past Ballarat East to where the Buninyong line branched off.
To me with a small amount of effort a standard gauge track would fit easily.
In fact if you follow the clip up the hill to Warrenheip to an Arm Chair RP expert like me I cannot understand the problem of Ballarat if sufficient funds are allocated.
I tried to have a look at the V/line timetable to try and gauge how many movements are scheduled to use Ballarat each day. At present the trains on the timetable are shown as buses due to the current occupation of the line so no luck there.
However I feel over a twenty four hour period the number of Frieght Trains that would be running could be squeezed in without making Mrs Brown late for her appointment because her train was/if at all delayed by two minutes.
You can rerail Marybourgh to Ararat to Pilbura standard but you still have to travel an extra one hundred plus K's to get to Geelong and it does not matter what the line speed is it costs time and fuel to run the extra distance. I thought we were worried about emissions?
Anyway I live in eternal hope that one day more or less the goods lines only will be standard gauge.
PTE.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
I cannot understand the problem of Ballarat if sufficient funds are allocated.
Z VAN
This is the first problem

The second is the disruption that will no doubt arise during construction as standardising of the track through that whole distance no doubt will involve all sorts of protective measures (some warranted, some perhaps at the conservative end of the risk envelope).  It is this disruption that the Ballarat people will get up in arms about and that the Vic Govt isnt wanting to poke the bear about.

Though im sure a VLine that is run properly instead of to line the pockets of the executive would be able to work out a way of doing this without too much hassle.  Some of the construction work they do now I bet is over engineered...
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
There has been 18 months or so of bustitutions on and off on the Ballarat line with the upgrade of the RRL.
IF ... some planning had been done,  any standard gauge line could have been inserted through Ballarat during the shutdowns.   But ...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Yet Again more Proof of the superiority of Broad Gauge Very Happy

No just how incompetent the gauge conversion project was done. If NSW extended the old rail line to Hay and many of the riverina towns that used to have a rail line I wonder how well your Broad Gauge would do then.
I wonder why you have a habit of replying to my posts a fair while after I posted them, and at the very minimum using the correct grammer!
I myself wonder what the world would be like if you let the VR build more BG Branches into NSW, boy we'd of reached Wagga Wagga or Junee years before the NSWGR ever did!

Sadly we are beyond what ifs, whats done is done.
Dangersdan707

Sometimes it just takes me that long to compute your responses....

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