High Capacity Metro Trains (HCMT) Order

 
  aussie48 Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
[quote=speedemon08][quote]None because Holden didn't go bust. GM shut it down because Abbott stopped giving subsidies to Holden which GM used to pilfer immediately to prop up the ineptitude of GM USA. If Kevin Rudd had bought Holden outright instead of subsidising then Holden might still be around.

Even with an old model in 2017 the Commodore at the time was one of the top ten selling cars in the country. Imagine if a new model was released in 2017 that was more economical and forward looking how fast sales of the new Commodore would have increased instead of the imported Opel model.[/quote]4x4 Dual Cab utes dominate 8 of the 10 top slots now.[/quote]Not even in te htop 10
[color=#202124][size=3][font=Google Sans", arial, sans-serif][b]Top 10 models for [b]2017[/b] overall:[/b][/font][/size][/color]
[color=#202124][size=3][font=arial, sans-serif][ul][li]Toyota Corolla – 37,353 (down from 40,330 in 2016)[/li][li]Mazda3 – 32,690 (down from 36,107)[/li][li]Hyundai i30 – 28,780 (down from 37,772)[/li][li]Kia Cerato – 18,731 (up from 13,111)[/li][li]Volkswagen Golf – 18,454 (down from 19,470)[/li][li]Honda Civic – 14,672 (up from 7028)[/li][li]Holden Astra – 13,535 (up from 448)[/li][/ul][/font][/size][/color]

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
None because Holden didn't go bust. GM shut it down because Abbott stopped giving subsidies to Holden which GM used to pilfer immediately to prop up the ineptitude of GM USA. If Kevin Rudd had bought Holden outright instead of subsidising then Holden might still be around.

Even with an old model in 2017 the Commodore at the time was one of the top ten selling cars in the country. Imagine if a new model was released in 2017 that was more economical and forward looking how fast sales of the new Commodore would have increased instead of the imported Opel model.
4x4 Dual Cab utes dominate 8 of the 10 top slots now.
speedemon08
Not sure about that, the top 10 includes 4 x 2 as well as 4 x 4 models as it's common practice in Aus to combine the results for both with models like Hilux. Hilux is the top seller in the Aus market but many are 4 x 2s sold to company fleet buyers. Ranger 4 x 4 outsold Hilux 4 x 4 for most of last year but when you add Hilux 4 x 2 Hilux jumps ahead

RAV 4 I believe is also avl in 4 x 2, 4 x 4 and Hybrid all of which are grouped together in the sales data

Not sure is CX-5 or X-Trail are avl in either / or
  Daryl Junior Train Controller

Location: Carrum Downs
I think R classes were built in Scotland because Menzies wanted to help post war Britain. In any case they had a lot of expertise.
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

None because Holden didn't go bust. GM shut it down because Abbott stopped giving subsidies to Holden which GM used to pilfer immediately to prop up the ineptitude of GM USA. If Kevin Rudd had bought Holden outright instead of subsidising then Holden might still be around.

Even with an old model in 2017 the Commodore at the time was one of the top ten selling cars in the country. Imagine if a new model was released in 2017 that was more economical and forward looking how fast sales of the new Commodore would have increased instead of the imported Opel model.
4x4 Dual Cab utes dominate 8 of the 10 top slots now.
speedemon08
Yes but how many are bought by the average person if you exclude government and fleet buyers?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
That's why we have the economic complexity of an African nation.
Upven
Worse, there's African nations that are ahead of us in economic complexity ratings.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

None because Holden didn't go bust. GM shut it down because Abbott stopped giving subsidies to Holden which GM used to pilfer immediately to prop up the ineptitude of GM USA. If Kevin Rudd had bought Holden outright instead of subsidising then Holden might still be around.

Even with an old model in 2017 the Commodore at the time was one of the top ten selling cars in the country. Imagine if a new model was released in 2017 that was more economical and forward looking how fast sales of the new Commodore would have increased instead of the imported Opel model.
4x4 Dual Cab utes dominate 8 of the 10 top slots now.
speedemon08
Why do you think that is? The people who buy dual cabs used to buy commodores and falcons. It is about towing capability which the commodore and falcon used to be the kings of.
  mike49 Locomotive Fireman

Dear Moderators this thread has gone completely off the topic. There hasn't been a post about HCMT's since 30 December! Can we get it back on track please?
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Apparently, another HCMT is doing the single, Pakenham to city and return, trip tomorrow morning. Daniel Bowen and the Melbourne Trains reddit thread are talking about it at the very least, from what I've seen

Neil
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Some video I just found

Melbourne's High Capacity Metro Trains HCMT First Passenger Service - YouTube
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Some video I just found

Melbourne's High Capacity Metro Trains HCMT First Passenger Service - YouTube
bevans
Just wondering if the HCMT will be always known as thus .
Melboune has a tradition of its suburban trains being being popularly known by a name that identifies a person , type of train or its manufacturer ie Swing Door , Tait , Harris , Hitachi , Comeng , Siemens or Xtrapolis
Perhaps the HCMT can become known as the Changchun ??
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
4D is probably the only other exception. You can't really call a narrowed, shrunken Tangara with chopper Comeng style traction equipment a Tangara. It would be like calling an Insignia a Commodore. Whoops, Holden already did that.
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
4D is probably the only other exception. You can't really call a narrowed, shrunken Tangara with chopper Comeng style traction equipment a Tangara. It would be like calling an Insignia a Commodore. Whoops, Holden already did that.
Heihachi_73
i forgot about the 4D
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Today's passenger run from Pakenham ended at Caulfield after doors kept failing to open.

Set 11 apparently.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Today's passenger run from Pakenham ended at Caulfield after doors kept failing to open.

Set 11 apparently.
Carnot
I've heard slight variations on the same story, I wonder what is true?

  • Story A): The train had door faults.
  • Story B): The train was scheduled to run via the Frankston lines between Caulfield and the City, and the South Yarra Platforms have not been modified for the train. Stations where the HCMT will stop have been equipped with beacons that tell the train which doors are safe to open - I wonder if that is a factor? e.g. TrackLink III beacon fitted between the rails on the approach to Flinders Street platform 5
  • A combination of Story A) and Story B)
  • Story C): The opening of the doors on the HCMT is apparently not intuitive, and requires the train to be stopped, then the button pressed twice. Maybe people not aware of this complained and it got taken out of service.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Set 03 is at Ringwood Sidings while Set 10 is at Upper Ferntree Gully.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

I've heard slight variations on the same story, I wonder what is true?

  • Story A): The train had door faults.
  • Story B): The train was scheduled to run via the Frankston lines between Caulfield and the City, and the South Yarra Platforms have not been modified for the train. Stations where the HCMT will stop have been equipped with beacons that tell the train which doors are safe to open - I wonder if that is a factor? e.g. TrackLink III beacon fitted between the rails on the approach to Flinders Street platform 5
  • A combination of Story A) and Story B)
  • Story C): The opening of the doors on the HCMT is apparently not intuitive, and requires the train to be stopped, then the button pressed twice. Maybe people not aware of this complained and it got taken out of service.
TOQ-1
The train appeared to have issues at Carnegie. We sat there for about 30s as the doors got reset before properly closing.

We arrived at Caulfield and the train sat for about 3 minutes before we were kicked off. The train was scheduled to take the through (now local) Frankston lines which aren't upgraded for HCMT use.

It's unclear if this was a series of unfortunate events or whether one hand didn't talk to the other and the operation got terminated at Caulfield because the train didn't have clearance to take passengers on that section of the network (it's one thing to drive it for testing, another with passengers on board).
  The Kitchen Sink Beginner

Hi All

I know im a new account and therefore not especially credible, but i was on the the 2nd HCMT service and by luck was seated nearby to some of the Metro staff in the train where the decision to cancel was being passed on.

It was from what i could gather a door system failure, and a reference was made to it being the "2nd" time and that there was a need to de-train
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I wonder if after feedback from the first run whether they've tried to change how it operates, and this fault was a result of that? Just speculating wildly, but the weird door operation was one of the major things I heard about the first run.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Some video I just found

Melbourne's High Capacity Metro Trains HCMT First Passenger Service - YouTube
Just wondering if the HCMT will be always known as thus .
Melboune has a tradition of its suburban trains being being popularly known by a name that identifies a person , type of train or its manufacturer ie Swing Door , Tait , Harris , Hitachi , Comeng , Siemens or Xtrapolis
Perhaps the HCMT can become known as the Changchun ?
Crossover
Maybe we can call them HICAPs ? (already used though by the health insurance payment system though)
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Hi All

I know im a new account and therefore not especially credible, but i was on the the 2nd HCMT service and by luck was seated nearby to some of the Metro staff in the train where the decision to cancel was being passed on.

It was from what i could gather a door system failure, and a reference was made to it being the "2nd" time and that there was a need to de-train
The Kitchen Sink
Being new has nothing to do with it, you are in fact on the money.

A 'leaky' Metro Station Master has confirmed that the issue was a 'Critical Beacon Failure'. This being the new trackside equipment that you may have seen around. The yellow trackside equipment is positioned near stations, they tell the train the length of the platform, which side the platform is and which doors on the set to open. This is all part of the HCMTS automation. The first failure was at Carnegie and the driver manually released the doors. When this happened again at Caulfield the decision was made to withdraw the service instead of having the same fault at every station.

Im not sure if the issue was with the trackside or on train equipment and what ended up happening.

Lockie
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Based on other networks with door authorization mechanisms, the transponder usually has a power rating of 5 watts, requiring the stopping accuracy of within 0.5 metres from the mark.  If the signal was any stronger, it might authorize a train that has overshot the first door off the platform to open the doors.  To properly adopt this technology they'd better upgrade it to ATO as part of this once-off investment, or bypass the authorization mechanism altogether.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Based on other networks with door authorization mechanisms, the transponder usually has a power rating of 5 watts, requiring the stopping accuracy of within 0.5 metres from the mark.  If the signal was any stronger, it might authorize a train that has overshot the first door off the platform to open the doors.  To properly adopt this technology they'd better upgrade it to ATO as part of this once-off investment, or bypass the authorization mechanism altogether.
route14
Im not sure what you are going on about.

The driver still stops the train on the platform. The automation outside of the Metro Tunnel is just for door openings. The beacons are located prior to the station and tell the train approaching what doors to open on what side. This is more commonly used for lines where not all platforms are the required length, ie the last door does not meet the platform so the system prevents this door from being opened. Driver has full override permissions and can open the doors if needed, as was done last weekend.

In the Metro Tunnel this is slightly different as the train will automatically come to a stop in the same position every time so that the train lines up with the platform screen doors.

More information on the system that is being rolled out https://www.railengineer.co.uk/being-selective/?fbclid=IwAR3fEG2zCidWSOv-ufjU4mZfxexSiEkXibHY40md9Pu6m3dzQRh93UiYrD4

Lockie
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Thanks for the link.  So the signal is given on approaching the station.  Are Melbourne tags Tracklink III described in the article?  Could that be that the transponder under the train is not powerful enough?  Has it got to do with the gradient?  For comparison, V-tag points on the tram network, though used for quite a different purpose, is also based on radio transmission.  The transponder hung under the driver's cab is perpendicular to the tram floor when adjusted properly, but gradient influences the receptivity.  E.g. at Brunswick St. siding the tram has to slow right down to when the disc brake is about to engage, to select the straight command.
    The article also mentions a stopping accuracy of 2 metres within stop mark is required.  Is there such requirement in Melbourne?  Can drivers usually achieve that?  Not trying to question drivers' technique, just trying to figure out what could be the cause.
  The Kitchen Sink Beginner

Does this video represent how the door control system is operating by any chance? (or how its supposed to work)



https://youtu.be/iT54x75DpZA?t=284
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Re, these trains being called HCMT's, Andrew Lund (channel 9 transport journalist) has referred to these as 'Evolutions', although whether that is official (more likely as he reports news, not create it) or his personal choice is open to conjecture.

Also, what with RP's failure during the launch of the new timetable, has anyone any information on whether more than set 11 is in service now? Youtubers all appear to have dodged this one completely, Vicsig has reverted to lagging seriously behind what is happening in the real world (in all aspects except trams) and I haven't been able to find any other sources to fill the gap.

Neil

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