Melbourne Airport Rail Link

 
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Reading the feedback on Engage Victoria it looks like people are asking for stations at both Keilor East and Airport West. So if such stations are built I expect they will be for political reasons and nothing else.

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  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

I think it’s safe to say a new Sunshine Station will need to be built, as I don’t see Airport, Sunbury, Wyndham Vale, Melton, Bendigo, Ballarat and Geelong lines all fitting in 4 subpar platforms.

IMO:
- 2 platforms for Sunbury + Airport (will require a flyover for DOWN airport trains)
- 2 platforms for Ballarat + Bendigo + some Geelong trains (probably won’t need a flyover as these would be a lower TPH tracks)
- 2 platforms for Melton + Wyndham Vale trains (will require flyover for Melton to connect to MM1 tracks, while Wyndham Vale trains run via RRL electrified tracks between Sunshine and South Kensington to join the Altona-Williamstown-?? line)
- 1 platform for SG.

It’s pretty much what others have said, but it makes sense. I’m honestly not certain where Wyndham Vale trains would end up, I considered having MM2 having 2 western portals, one towards Werribee and one towards Sunshine so Wyndham Vale trains could join up to MM2 (might make it better value).
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I personally think that part of the planning should have been to test where the bulk of the patronage would actually go. The current plan makes sense if 90% are going to the city and beyond but if 90% get off at Sunshine then it does not make sense to run services all the way into the city.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I personally think that part of the planning should have been to test where the bulk of the patronage would actually go. The current plan makes sense if 90% are going to the city and beyond but if 90% get off at Sunshine then it does not make sense to run services all the way into the city.
railblogger
The majority will not be going to Sunshine. There will be some draw in transferring from a V/Line service to the Airport service, but this will be the minority of users.

It would be a pretty safe bet that most people will be going to the inner city - Parkville, State Library, Town Hall will see most users, Anzac might be useful for some business people heading for work reasons. Most users will probably end up changing trains.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I personally think that part of the planning should have been to test where the bulk of the patronage would actually go. The current plan makes sense if 90% are going to the city and beyond but if 90% get off at Sunshine then it does not make sense to run services all the way into the city.
The majority will not be going to Sunshine. There will be some draw in transferring from a V/Line service to the Airport service, but this will be the minority of users.

It would be a pretty safe bet that most people will be going to the inner city - Parkville, State Library, Town Hall will see most users, Anzac might be useful for some business people heading for work reasons. Most users will probably end up changing trains.
TOQ-1
I can see those living in the Wyndham area heading to Tarneit/Wyndham Vale. Anyone living in the northern suburbs will likely take a bus. Sunbury line passenger (and Melton if it's electrified by then) will change at Sunshine. This leaves only the CBD, inner suburbs, Burnley and Caulfield group passengers needing to travel all the way into city.
  Upven Junior Train Controller

I personally think that part of the planning should have been to test where the bulk of the patronage would actually go. The current plan makes sense if 90% are going to the city and beyond but if 90% get off at Sunshine then it does not make sense to run services all the way into the city.
The majority will not be going to Sunshine. There will be some draw in transferring from a V/Line service to the Airport service, but this will be the minority of users.

It would be a pretty safe bet that most people will be going to the inner city - Parkville, State Library, Town Hall will see most users, Anzac might be useful for some business people heading for work reasons. Most users will probably end up changing trains.
I can see those living in the Wyndham area heading to Tarneit/Wyndham Vale. Anyone living in the northern suburbs will likely take a bus. Sunbury line passenger (and Melton if it's electrified by then) will change at Sunshine. This leaves only the CBD, inner suburbs, Burnley and Caulfield group passengers needing to travel all the way into city.
railblogger
CBD, Burnley & Caulfield representing a population pool larger than Perth.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

IMO running via Sunshine and MM1 is the best option, it's a lot more of no interchange journeys, especially in the inner core with 5 new stations. Also remember that at one point SRL through Airport could happen - probably most useful for Northern / Eastern suburbs.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

IMO running via Sunshine and MM1 is the best option, it's a lot more of no interchange journeys, especially in the inner core with 5 new stations. Also remember that at one point SRL through Airport could happen - probably most useful for Northern / Eastern suburbs.
Jordy33
SRL stage 2 is still planned as Box Hill to Airport, which will fill in the gaps for most people where coming into the city is less than ideal for PT to the Airport.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@Upven How many of those do you think will travel to and from the airport each day?
  Upven Junior Train Controller

@Upven How many of those do you think will travel to and from the airport each day?
railblogger
Some light reading on who the target audience is: https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/publications/research-papers/download/36-research-papers/13828-melbourne-airport-rail-link

I know the point you’re trying to make; that the line will service the west etc, but that’s not really what the Airport line is for politically.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
That's not the point I'm trying to make at all.

If few people from east of Sunshine are actually going to the airport (and vice versa), then the airport service would be better off as a shuttle with the freed up slots going to trains bound for Melton or Wyndham Vale when those lines get electrified.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Reading the feedback on Engage Victoria it looks like people are asking for stations at both Keilor East and Airport West. So if such stations are built I expect they will be for political reasons and nothing else.
railblogger

Two things always strike me about the Engage maps though - 1. I always wonder how many of the responses are actually local residents, and how many are lobbyists or political staffers for David Davis and so on.  And 2. so many of the suggestions people write on them are either completely unrealistic or straight up smeg crazy.

I guess it means they can at least pretend to consult the community?
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

I think to include East Keilor and Airport West, we'd be looking at having two services to the Airport - one being the "Airport Rail Link" which runs express and the other being a suburban line that just happens to go to/via the Airport.  Potentially the SRL could stop at the intermediate stations between the Airport and Sunshine.

This works in numerous other cities.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

I think to include East Keilor and Airport West, we'd be looking at having two services to the Airport - one being the "Airport Rail Link" which runs express and the other being a suburban line that just happens to go to/via the Airport.  Potentially the SRL could stop at the intermediate stations between the Airport and Sunshine.

This works in numerous other cities.
Adogs
I believe in my view for the Airport rail link in Melbourne to be successful it has to operate as a suburban line, not just an express line from the start. The SRL will not make the airport anytime soon so isn't worth waiting on it yet. Plus when the Airport rail link opens in Melbourne it won't gather enough patronage if it just ran express.

Honestly adding a few minutes to the journey to add more catchment area in the blackspot north western suburbs, is a great opportunity to make the Airport rail link useful for not just people wanting to access the airport but also to the average commuter.

In many cities, generally the suburban airport link is more successful than an express link, and normally an express link is provided later once the suburban link has been established.

I think Kelior East station would be just enough to serve the area, also the cost increase is not too significant when compared to the overall project, the benefits would outweigh the extra costs, if there are good bus connections provided.

Provide the suburban service first, then if there is significant demand to the Airport, add the express route later.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@Adogs For me it's pretty easy to tell the difference because the average Joe doesn't see how to get a good public transport network going.

But anyway back on topic. I think an East Keillor station and an Airport West station would only be beneficial if there was a significant amount of connecting buses (in the latter case the #59 tram should also be extended to the station). This is due to the fact that both stations would be in locations that would otherwise be difficult to access from the surrounding areas.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
I have just been reading about the Sydney Metro City & Southwest Metro from Chatswood to Bankstown. The Line consists of 15.5 km of Deep level tunneling including 7 new stations and the conversion 15km of Sydney Trains Infrastructure from Sydenham to Bankstown which will be completed in 7 years and we in Victoria are going to take the same amount of time to build a new track pair through Sunshine station, some sky rail, a little bit of tunneling into the airport and one new station?

As a aside, as the Airport Rail is going to run via MM1, will the service stop all stations between Footscray and Sunshine or will it run express?


Michael
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Yeah I think they need to revise their timeframe. I would have expected the opening to coincide with that of the Metro Tunnel.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
I think to include East Keilor and Airport West, we'd be looking at having two services to the Airport - one being the "Airport Rail Link" which runs express and the other being a suburban line that just happens to go to/via the Airport.  Potentially the SRL could stop at the intermediate stations between the Airport and Sunshine.

This works in numerous other cities.
I believe in my view for the Airport rail link in Melbourne to be successful it has to operate as a suburban line, not just an express line from the start. The SRL will not make the airport anytime soon so isn't worth waiting on it yet. Plus when the Airport rail link opens in Melbourne it won't gather enough patronage if it just ran express.

Honestly adding a few minutes to the journey to add more catchment area in the blackspot north western suburbs, is a great opportunity to make the Airport rail link useful for not just people wanting to access the airport but also to the average commuter.

In many cities, generally the suburban airport link is more successful than an express link, and normally an express link is provided later once the suburban link has been established.

I think Kelior East station would be just enough to serve the area, also the cost increase is not too significant when compared to the overall project, the benefits would outweigh the extra costs, if there are good bus connections provided.

Provide the suburban service first, then if there is significant demand to the Airport, add the express route later.
True Believers
I would have preferred it if they had used the $10 Billion for as Northern Rail Package. Doing something about the Craigieburn line is far more pressing then providing rail to the Airport.

Reinstate the rail corridor from Upfield to Roxburgh Park, build a link in the city to access Dynon so that Broad Gauge Freight could run via the Upfield line. Divert all Seymour and Shepparton line trains via the Upfield line or the Albion - Jacana corridor. Extend past the airport to Bendigo.

Michael
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Article in Starweekly on plans for Albion and Sunshine stations.  One option on the table is to consolidate Albion and Sunshine into a single station, the other is to relocate Albion:

https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/station-move-floated/
  3088D Station Master

Article in Starweekly on plans for Albion and Sunshine stations.  One option on the table is to consolidate Albion and Sunshine into a single station, the other is to relocate Albion:

https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/station-move-floated/
Carnot
An interesting concept but the chances of this plan being built are slim and none, especially considering that Sunshine station had a facelift only five years ago. This is a council idea and as we know the transport authorities listen not to the ideas from local councils. Witness the absence of anything in Banyule’s 2017 plan for improving transport co-ordination Greensborough in the new railway station.

Councils love to come up with these plans which makes them look like serious players in government but how often are they part of the final build? On the plus side, it shows that someone on the council is a railfan.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Article in Starweekly on plans for Albion and Sunshine stations.  One option on the table is to consolidate Albion and Sunshine into a single station, the other is to relocate Albion:

https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/station-move-floated/
An interesting concept but the chances of this plan being built are slim and none, especially considering that Sunshine station had a facelift only five years ago. This is a council idea and as we know the transport authorities listen not to the ideas from local councils. Witness the absence of anything in Banyule’s 2017 plan for improving transport co-ordination Greensborough in the new railway station.

Councils love to come up with these plans which makes them look like serious players in government but how often are they part of the final build? On the plus side, it shows that someone on the council is a railfan.
3088D
Relocating Sunshine Railway Station to the North Is a real clever Idea, as It would lose It's connection with the Ballarat / RRL - Geelong Line
  3088D Station Master


Relocating Sunshine Railway Station to the North Is a real clever Idea, as It would lose It's connection with the Ballarat / RRL - Geelong Line
Nightfire
Yes, not good. Nice pictures though.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

Relocating Sunshine Railway Station to the North Is a real clever Idea, as It would lose It's connection with the Ballarat / RRL - Geelong LineYes, not good. Nice pictures though.
3088D
Vested Interest by property developers ?
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Article in Starweekly on plans for Albion and Sunshine stations. One option on the table is to consolidate Albion and Sunshine into a single station, the other is to relocate Albion: https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/station-mov...
Carnot

Nomination for the worst idea since Melbourne Rail Link?
Why the hell would you move Sunshine north when the whole point of its upgrade is to serve as a super hub for the west?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
A comment I posted on 26 June 2020:

"I reckon we should hold an "Airport Rail Party" when this thread reaches 50 pages, still with nobody any the wiser about what's actually going to happen."

Any ideas on where the party should be held? (the funnier, the better)

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