ARTC/locals dispute over Euroa overpass

 
  historian Deputy Commissioner

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/the-push-to-reunify-euroa-s-east-and-west-overpass-plan-divides-town-20210205-p56zu1.html

Summary: ARTC wants to replace the 1961 overpass to the south of the station with a higher overpass to accommodate double stacked containers. Some (at least) in the community consider that an alternative method of crossing the line would be preferable - a level crossing or an underpass. A large part of the stated argument is improving the status of the land west of the line, which is currently cut off from the rest of Euroa. ARTC says that an underpass would be prone to flood and an intrusive levy would be necessary. The nay-sayers say that ARTC hasn't provided any 'substantial evidence' of why it must build a higher overpass, and the mayor wants the community involved in the final design in a 'meaningful way'.

[comment: the Seven Creeks at the other end of the station does, indeed, regularly flood parts of the town. I could see why ARTC wouldn't want to lower the railway line, even a bit, and why an underpass would flood. It's also hard to see how an underpass would be any less divisive than an overpass. The article has a lovely artistic rendition of a *low* underpass that would be nothing like what would actually be provided given it'd need to be about 6 metres deep. 'Substantial evidence', of course, means that the community group doesn't like what they are hearing, and 'meaningful way' means that they get what they want.]

I would imagine that the same story would be being played out at the other overbridges on the NE standard gauge - Glenrowan & Wangaratta.

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  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Amazing that the locals would contemplate a level crossing instead of an overpass. Next they would complain about delays while the trains pass.

Still, you need some excuse (no matter how flimsy) to impede progress.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
you wont get any new level crossings approved in this state, so there's no point the community considering it. Current government policy forbids it. If the community doesn't want a taller bridge at the crossing location, rail over road might be the only option, however as we know, that comes with its own issues.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

A road underpass in that location would be a canal, not a road.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
seems to me that neither ARTC nor the locals are even trying to think outside the box.

They are all trying to fix an ugly 1960's road bridge which was merely a product of the CRB road building mentality of the time.

IE. let's build a nice heavy duty road for trucks to drive right through the centre of town.

this is the year 2021, and trucks BY-PASS towns wherever possible, so why do they even consider just replicating the current mess.

The C366 main north/south is the only way a truck can get through. Otherwise an LX to the south or 4 impossible LOW clearance bridges to the north.

Simple alternate to make the C366 by-pass town to the west & south, replacing the current LX with a road-over bridge at an empty part of town.
Then just remove completely the existing bridge and cross over.

similar price tag and a lot less pain.

PS bonus.
The works are done by the road building authority who have plenty of practice, instead of ARTC who apparently have NFI

cheers
John
  62440 Chief Commissioner

The road is the C366 which gives a hint how important it is. The town is already by-passed by the Hume which doesn't cross the railway. I fail to see the problem. The road hardly divides the town, it unites the two halves, if anything.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
The road is the C366 which gives a hint how important it is. The town is already by-passed by the Hume which doesn't cross the railway. I fail to see the problem. The road hardly divides the town, it unites the two halves, if anything.
62440
I did say north/south route. C366 is Shepparton to the Yarra Ranges.
A secondary route to be sure, and very convenient, saves about 50km.

The Hume is east/west, and a prime example of how by-pass improves the town's amenity.

The existing bridge may well "unite" the town, but the point being - that bridge has to go, no matter what.

cheers
John
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Simple alternate to make the C366 by-pass town to the west & south, replacing the current LX with a road-over bridge at an empty part of town.
justarider
Why they couldn't have done this at the same time as buidling the freeway was short sighted too...
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I can't see that it matters where C366 is; there still has to be some way of getting from one side of the railway to the other, even if it's only for the locals.
The problem we have now is a theoretical genius saying that Euroa is desperately divided, with the east side being the silk department, and the west side is what's left. The conclusion reached by this drongo is that the rail bridge divides the town which is patent nonsense. The railway divides the town.
As has already been said, an underpass or a level crossing are not on - full stop. An underpass would need a massive levee (not a levy as was reported), and the road itself would have to climb the levee on both sides of the track if the underpass is to be kept dry. A level crossing would earn a degree in Stupidity 101.
Solution; find something useful for the genius to do, and quit talking rubbish.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

If the C366 is relocated to say, the Birkett St alignment with a suitably high overpass, the locals will scream when they lose the convenient amenity of the existing Scott St overpass. Three months after the new bridge is finished they won't even notice the extra height.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Sounds like the Anti-Skyrail thing all over again.

Nothing but a load of hot air.

Build the new taller road bridge and the majority of the locals will get over it pretty much immediately and those that don't are most likely the same bitter miserable wrecks that will continue to smeg about it along with everything else.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

There is already and overpass. I do not see why raising its height further is such a big issue.
  steamfreak Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wodonga, VIC
The nay-sayers say that ARTC hasn't provided any 'substantial evidence' of why it must build a higher overpass
Naysayers

The first train of double-stacked containers slamming into the current bridge may be the only evidence that would involve the community in a meaningful way...
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I wonder if the opposition to this new overpass has a political motivation. Are their people with Euroa with shall we call it; "private political or personal agendas?" So they are see opposition to raising the height of the overpass as an opportunity of some kind?
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
I wonder if the opposition to this new overpass has a political motivation. Are their people with Euroa with shall we call it; "private political or personal agendas?" So they are see opposition to raising the height of the overpass as an opportunity of some kind?
Duncs

Could they dispense with the overpass and make it an underpass for the road?
  Djebel Locomotive Driver

I wonder if the opposition to this new overpass has a political motivation. Are their people with Euroa with shall we call it; "private political or personal agendas?" So they are see opposition to raising the height of the overpass as an opportunity of some kind?

Could they dispense with the overpass and make it an underpass for the road?
NSWGR8022
They could, but only if the locals all buy submarines for when it floods.  Maybe James Bond style Lotuses.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Could they dispense with the overpass and make it an underpass for the road?
"NSWGR8022"
See above. Seven Creeks floods with monotonous regularity, and there goes your underpass.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Could they dispense with the overpass and make it an underpass for the road?
See above. Seven Creeks floods with monotonous regularity, and there goes your underpass.
Valvegear

It comes down then to not wanting to raise the bridge they have right now rather than going under or being higher.  Why is this not the acceptable way for ARTC when they have tracks to the west available to take the double stacking?
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

It comes down then to not wanting to raise the bridge they have right now rather than going under or being higher.  Why is this not the acceptable way for ARTC when they have tracks to the west available to take the double stacking?
NSWGR8022

Wot?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It comes down then to not wanting to raise the bridge they have right now rather than going under or being higher.  Why is this not the acceptable way for ARTC when they have tracks to the west available to take the double stacking?
NSWGR8022

ARTC don't own any track to the west of Euroa to use. ARTC want to build a new road overpass but for some reason the locals do not.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
These guys have had a lot of media attention on this topic, Abc radio, online and news along with the age.
My Diagnosis of this issue
Nimbyism.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
It comes down then to not wanting to raise the bridge they have right now rather than going under or being higher.  Why is this not the acceptable way for ARTC when they have tracks to the west available to take the double stacking?

ARTC don't own any track to the west of Euroa to use. ARTC want to build a new road overpass but for some reason the locals do not.
simstrain

The rail yard at Euroa is on the north west side as the line is not quite north/south.  It would be hard to see how the changing of scotts road could be avoided.

  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I will say it again, this is just like the Anti-Skyrail campaign.

There was an awful lot of noise about that. People weren't going to stand for it. They were going to force a change of policy, they were going to force the government to back down and they were going to win.

Spoiler alert: They didn't win, Skyrail happened and everyone got on with their lives.

The same will happen here.

The ARTC need to provide a path for double stacked containers through Euroa, so this bridge needs to be lifted.

The ARTC will get their way, and everyone will get on with their lives.

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