Welcome to Trump town

 
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I'm not a racist, Michael. Either present evidence of my racism or shut-up. And please don't send me any more abusive personal messages or I'll ask Brian to kick you off this board for being a knob.
"don_dunstan"
I'll ask Brian not to do so; I like Michael.

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm not a racist, Michael. Either present evidence of my racism or shut-up. And please don't send me any more abusive personal messages or I'll ask Brian to kick you off this board for being a knob.
I'll ask Brian not to do so; I like Michael.
Valvegear
Alright if I was to put my philosophy hat on I'd say this:

I have a perfect right to a personal opinion about Donald J. Trump. I happen to think he really wasn't a bad President. Did he put a cigar into an intern's baby cannon in the Oval Office? No. Did he bomb Hanoi, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden into the earth? No. People didn't like him because he was abrasive, didn't apologise and was frankly a bit common. So what? You lot all happen to think he's an incarnation of Stalin and Pol Pot all in one - which is fine with me, whatever floats you boat.

You are entitled to your opinion.

But apparently I'm not - I'm subjected to all sorts of vile personal insults and abuse simply because I won't think the same as the rest of you on that one (former) US President. And now it's crossed into sending me personal messages - all because I refuse think the same as the rest of you about Donald J Trump?

Get stuffed to all of you. You're absolutely positively intolerant fascist bully boys, you just think you have right on your side is all - like all fascists do. Look in the mirror and you'll see exactly what you purport to abhor.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Get stuffed to all of you. You're absolutely positively intolerant fascist bully boys, you just think you have right on your side is all - like all fascists do. Look in the mirror and you'll see exactly what you purport to abhor.
Don_dunstan
Fascism is when you call people out for being intolerant of difference, the more you do that, the more fascist it is.
May I present the Paradox of tolerance

  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Or are you perfect, Saint Michael?
Could we do without this sort of irrelevant stupidity, please.
It's perfectly valid, why bring up Trump's behaviour when he was working for his dad in the seventies? It's got nothing to do with his character as President.

I want red hot evidence of Trump's Klan-loving ways in his term as President and Michael brings along fifty year old anecdota -
I want red hot evidence of Trump's Klan-loving ways in his term as President and Michael brings along fifty year old

Yeah like the evidence-free bs that you have been spouting.

I am No saint Don. Never said that Don Trump was a member of the klan, I said his father was, so he is a descendant of a klan member. Trump though does have a history of racial discrimination.

Yeah Bad Tenants. So he thinks that all black people are bad tenants. How could he possibly know that?

So there you go again, White people all good, black people all bad.

Him and his father settled with the housing Dept. for Millions. And repealing housing laws that is meant to eliminate discrimination in housing, during his tenure, all recorded fact. But I guess you don't deal in facts

If you really think that all those racist nutters who think that Trump is wonderful is doing so because he is a beacon for Racial equality, I want what you are smoking.

Everybody has biases, Don, but not everyone discriminates based on skin colour or sexual orientation, only racists and homophobes do. So, no I haven't been prejudiced in that way, never. You do not have to be perfect not to be racist or homophobic, just not easily seduced by it.....like you.


Michael
Michael, why do you think that stuff that Trump did with his father in business in the seventies is in any way relevant to how he performed as President in the twenty-first century?

Short answer is that it's not. Nothing you've said about Trump's actions in the seventies has any bearing on his behaviour as President fifty years later.

I'm not a racist, Michael. Either present evidence of my racism or shut-up. And please don't send me any more abusive personal messages or I'll ask Brian to kick you off this board for being a knob.
Here we go. Thought it would it a raw nerve.

I did mention Trumps rolling back of fair housing laws. Funny you did not mention that.

I did send a personal message by mistake, because my laptop is not rendering these pages properly, but if you think that was abusive then I am afraid you are a massive snowflake and a hypocrite. A man cannot even post an argument without some form of abuse or put down. The slur hurled at The Vinelander was particularly distasteful.

Stating that I must have been prejudiced at some group is not a question uttered by someone who is not racist. Don you do not see me or anyone who is not white as your equal. That is plain to see. And that I am afraid is racist.

Now run off to Moderators and get me banned, ya big baby.

Michael
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Here we go. Thought it would it a raw nerve.

I did send a personal message by mistake, because my laptop is not rendering these pages properly, but if you think that was abusive then I am afraid you are a massive snowflake and a hypocrite. A man cannot even post an argument without some form of abuse or put down. The slur hurled at The Vinelander was particularly distasteful.
mejhammers1
Vlinelander can defend himself.
Stating that I must have been prejudiced at some group is not a question uttered by someone who is not racist. Don you do not see me or anyone who is not white as your equal. That is plain to see. And that I am afraid is racist. Now run off to Moderators and get me banned, ya big baby. Michael
mejhammers1
No the problem is that you don't see me as equal and want to dehumanise me because of that point of view. Simple as that.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Here we go. Thought it would it a raw nerve.

I did send a personal message by mistake, because my laptop is not rendering these pages properly, but if you think that was abusive then I am afraid you are a massive snowflake and a hypocrite. A man cannot even post an argument without some form of abuse or put down. The slur hurled at The Vinelander was particularly distasteful.
Vlinelander can defend himself.
Stating that I must have been prejudiced at some group is not a question uttered by someone who is not racist. Don you do not see me or anyone who is not white as your equal. That is plain to see. And that I am afraid is racist. Now run off to Moderators and get me banned, ya big baby. Michael
No the problem is that you don't see me as equal and want to dehumanise me because of that point of view. Simple as that.
don_dunstan
Hail to the King of Hyperbole and drama.

You're right, its all opinion isn't it. You think Trump is just a bit abrasive, I think he is a crooked racist, autocratic git. The evidence is there and it is my view that he still is, take it or leave it.

Trouble is Don that you cannot see your own bigotry. As soon as your arguments are challenged, you revert to victim mode. No one is trying to dehumanise you at all.

Of course Vinelander can defend himself, but its one rule for you and another for everyone else.

So man up and take the medicine that you have no trouble dishing out.


Michael
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
No the problem is that you don't see me as equal and want to dehumanise me because of that point of view. Simple as that.
"don_dunstan
You do a pretty good job of dehumanising yourself.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
I see the hip and with it Anarchist crowd has not given up on their use of patheticly childish comic strips to try and render the turgidity of their nonsense more accessible.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Hail to the King of Hyperbole and drama.

You're right, its all opinion isn't it. You think Trump is just a bit abrasive, I think he is a crooked racist, autocratic git. The evidence is there and it is my view that he still is, take it or leave it.
mejhammers1
So Trump kicked out some bad tenants in the seventies who just happened to be black. That's not evidence that he's racist, Michael.

The problem is that you're so blinded by your pathological hatred of the man you can't see that there's zero evidence for what you're saying - you just think its an incontrovertible truth and that everyone else is a bigot if they don't agree with you.

And in fact you think it gives you the right to shout anyone who doesn't agree with you down.
Trouble is Don that you cannot see your own bigotry. As soon as your arguments are challenged, you revert to victim mode. No one is trying to dehumanise you at all. Of course Vinelander can defend himself, but its one rule for you and another for everyone else. So man up and take the medicine that you have no trouble dishing out. Michael
mejhammers1
Like the wannabe fascist bully-boy that you are, you think its perfectly fine to call me names and make me less than human because in your mind I'm siding with the enemy and deserve it.

You have zero insight into your own actions and behaviors, Michael. You're a definite fascist bully-boy in the making - you'd be really comfortable in a brown shirt, more than you realise.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I see the hip and with it Anarchist crowd has not given up on their use of patheticly childish comic strips to try and render the turgidity of their nonsense more accessible.
"billybaxter"
How terribly perspicacious of you.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Hail to the King of Hyperbole and drama.

You're right, its all opinion isn't it. You think Trump is just a bit abrasive, I think he is a crooked racist, autocratic git. The evidence is there and it is my view that he still is, take it or leave it.
So Trump kicked out some bad tenants in the seventies who just happened to be black. That's not evidence that he's racist, Michael.

The problem is that you're so blinded by your pathological hatred of the man you can't see that there's zero evidence for what you're saying - you just think its an incontrovertible truth and that everyone else is a bigot if they don't agree with you.

And in fact you think it gives you the right to shout anyone who doesn't agree with you down.
Trouble is Don that you cannot see your own bigotry. As soon as your arguments are challenged, you revert to victim mode. No one is trying to dehumanise you at all. Of course Vinelander can defend himself, but its one rule for you and another for everyone else. So man up and take the medicine that you have no trouble dishing out. Michael
Like the wannabe fascist bully-boy that you are, you think its perfectly fine to call me names and make me less than human because in your mind I'm siding with the enemy and deserve it.

You have zero insight into your own actions and behaviors, Michael. You're a definite fascist bully-boy in the making - you'd be really comfortable in a brown shirt, more than you realise.
Whatever you think of me is of no consequence. Could not give a stuff. But if you are being totally honest Don, you have been far more guilty of name calling and abuse than I have. You give it in spades and then cry for Teacher when the mildest of criticism is returned

Like questioning why I am here because I dare speak against racism & discrimination. And that maybe I should go and live in black corrupt countries. Your words. I chose to ignore that one at the time, but of course that's not racist is it Don. Is it.

And like your constant statement that by challenging your arguments that somehow I hate all white people. Earth to Don, you are not all white people. And I do not even hate you even though you are a massive drama queen at times.

You really need to get over yourself Don. I do not think of you as the enemy, but I suspect you think that of me.  

No one is stopping you from saying what you like. I am of course entitled to reply.  

Oh and by the way Trump isn't just racist. Try these for size, Incompetent, Corrupt, Dumb, a compulsive liar and childish.

Michael
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Whatever you think of me is of no consequence. Could not give a stuff. But if you are being totally honest Don, you have been far more guilty of name calling and abuse than I have. You give it in spades and then cry for Teacher when the mildest of criticism is returned

Like questioning why I am here because I dare speak against racism & discrimination. And that maybe I should go and live in black corrupt countries. Your words. I chose to ignore that one at the time, but of course that's not racist is it Don. Is it.

And like your constant statement that by challenging your arguments that somehow I hate all white people. Earth to Don, you are not all white people. And I do not even hate you even though you are a massive drama queen at times.

You really need to get over yourself Don. I do not think of you as the enemy, but I suspect you think that of me.  

No one is stopping you from saying what you like. I am of course entitled to reply.  

Oh and by the way Trump isn't just racist. Try these for size, Incompetent, Corrupt, Dumb, a compulsive liar and childish.

Michael
mejhammers1
I don't have a negative opinion of you, you seem like an ambitious, earnest kinda guy. And I give as good as I get, Michael - that's why I resort to deriding people.

Years ago a close friend converted to Islam and asked me if I thought he should go live somewhere like Pakistan so he could be completely immersed in Islam and not be judged - because he felt judged living in a Western country. I said "sure, if you think that would help.".  Incidentally he never did go to Pakistan, I think even he realised that was too fundamentalist for him. I said the same thing to you pretty much the same intent: If you think you'd like to live in a country with a majority of your own sort of people then by all means, do it. Frank Lowy (former owner of Westfield) moved to Israel after he sold his shopping center interests in Australia saying that he wanted to be with other Jewish people like himself in a Jewish majority country - fair enough. Whatever floats your boat if you think it would bring you happiness.

I'm glad you finally agree with me that the evidence that Trump is racist is extremely weak. He might be guilty of lots of other things but he's a rather cosmopolitan kinda Manhattan bloke and he's not really a bigot of any sort.

Elvis on the other hand...
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Whether or not Trump is racist isn't entirely relevant. What we do know is that he chose a strategy that played to racists, emboldened racists, and empowered them.

His constant use of racist rhetoric from day 1 of his campaign for the presidency ("They're all rapists and murderers") essentially gave the worst people in that country permission to think it was ok to agree with it. Then when he won, and became the President, that gave them permission to act on it.

That's why you see rich white middle aged people standing outside their mansions pointing guns at peaceful black lives matter protesters that are just walking past. That's why you here stories of 'Karens' approaching random people in the street and demanding to know if they have a green card. That's why you see a white boy take his muscle car and plow through a crowd of mostly black people at a candlelight vigil. These people aren't racist because of Trump, they are just emboldened by the fact that the guy in the white house thinks the same as them, and if anybody out there has a problem with it, they should go talk to him.


Maybe he isn't really a racist at heart, and he doesn't really believe all of the nasty things he has said about Mexicans, or about Muslims, or about certain "S*#t hole countries" but personally, I think if he doesn't believe all of that, then instead he is still willing to use it just to manipulate uneducated frightened people into voting for him so he can get more power over those same people. If that is the truth of it, then he is genuinely a monster and should probably be locked in a rubber room for the remainder of his natural life.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Whether or not Trump is racist isn't entirely relevant. What we do know is that he chose a strategy that played to racists, emboldened racists, and empowered them.

His constant use of racist rhetoric from day 1 of his campaign for the presidency ("They're all rapists and murderers") essentially gave the worst people in that country permission to think it was ok to agree with it. Then when he won, and became the President, that gave them permission to act on it.

That's why you see rich white middle aged people standing outside their mansions pointing guns at peaceful black lives matter protesters that are just walking past. That's why you here stories of 'Karens' approaching random people in the street and demanding to know if they have a green card. That's why you see a white boy take his muscle car and plow through a crowd of mostly black people at a candlelight vigil. These people aren't racist because of Trump, they are just emboldened by the fact that the guy in the white house thinks the same as them, and if anybody out there has a problem with it, they should go talk to him.


Maybe he isn't really a racist at heart, and he doesn't really believe all of the nasty things he has said about Mexicans, or about Muslims, or about certain "S*#t hole countries" but personally, I think if he doesn't believe all of that, then instead he is still willing to use it just to manipulate uneducated frightened people into voting for him so he can get more power over those same people. If that is the truth of it, then he is genuinely a monster and should probably be locked in a rubber room for the remainder of his natural life.
Gman_86
I could not have explained it better if I tried. You're right. If he isn't racist he sure is playing to the racist underbelly.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Whatever you think of me is of no consequence. Could not give a stuff. But if you are being totally honest Don, you have been far more guilty of name calling and abuse than I have. You give it in spades and then cry for Teacher when the mildest of criticism is returned

Like questioning why I am here because I dare speak against racism & discrimination. And that maybe I should go and live in black corrupt countries. Your words. I chose to ignore that one at the time, but of course that's not racist is it Don. Is it.

And like your constant statement that by challenging your arguments that somehow I hate all white people. Earth to Don, you are not all white people. And I do not even hate you even though you are a massive drama queen at times.

You really need to get over yourself Don. I do not think of you as the enemy, but I suspect you think that of me.  

No one is stopping you from saying what you like. I am of course entitled to reply.  

Oh and by the way Trump isn't just racist. Try these for size, Incompetent, Corrupt, Dumb, a compulsive liar and childish.

Michael
I don't have a negative opinion of you, you seem like an ambitious, earnest kinda guy. And I give as good as I get, Michael - that's why I resort to deriding people.

Years ago a close friend converted to Islam and asked me if I thought he should go live somewhere like Pakistan so he could be completely immersed in Islam and not be judged - because he felt judged living in a Western country. I said "sure, if you think that would help.".  Incidentally he never did go to Pakistan, I think even he realised that was too fundamentalist for him. I said the same thing to you pretty much the same intent: If you think you'd like to live in a country with a majority of your own sort of people then by all means, do it. Frank Lowy (former owner of Westfield) moved to Israel after he sold his shopping center interests in Australia saying that he wanted to be with other Jewish people like himself in a Jewish majority country - fair enough. Whatever floats your boat if you think it would bring you happiness.

I'm glad you finally agree with me that the evidence that Trump is racist is extremely weak. He might be guilty of lots of other things but he's a rather cosmopolitan kinda Manhattan bloke and he's not really a bigot of any sort.

Elvis on the other hand...
don_dunstan
If you think you'd like to live in a country with a majority of your own sort of people then by all means, do it.

But Don nothing I said prompted such a response. I must of said hundreds of times that I think that Australia is a wonderful country. And I wouldn't live anywhere else. It is just that I feel that if I work hard pay me taxes provide for my family and keep out of trouble, that I do not have to justify my existence in this country.

My wife is Aussie Born, My Kids are Aussie Born and I am a mad Geelong supporter. Living somewhere without Footy, that is too awful to contemplate.

I will always speak out against any form of discrimination though.


Michael
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Yep it's true, D.R Anthony Fauci feels much more relieved now that Trump isn't in the White House!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Whether or not Trump is racist isn't entirely relevant. What we do know is that he chose a strategy that played to racists, emboldened racists, and empowered them.

His constant use of racist rhetoric from day 1 of his campaign for the presidency ("They're all rapists and murderers") essentially gave the worst people in that country permission to think it was ok to agree with it. Then when he won, and became the President, that gave them permission to act on it.

That's why you see rich white middle aged people standing outside their mansions pointing guns at peaceful black lives matter protesters that are just walking past. That's why you here stories of 'Karens' approaching random people in the street and demanding to know if they have a green card. That's why you see a white boy take his muscle car and plow through a crowd of mostly black people at a candlelight vigil. These people aren't racist because of Trump, they are just emboldened by the fact that the guy in the white house thinks the same as them, and if anybody out there has a problem with it, they should go talk to him.


Maybe he isn't really a racist at heart, and he doesn't really believe all of the nasty things he has said about Mexicans, or about Muslims, or about certain "S*#t hole countries" but personally, I think if he doesn't believe all of that, then instead he is still willing to use it just to manipulate uneducated frightened people into voting for him so he can get more power over those same people. If that is the truth of it, then he is genuinely a monster and should probably be locked in a rubber room for the remainder of his natural life.
I could not have explained it better if I tried. You're right. If he isn't racist he sure is playing to the racist underbelly.

Michael
mejhammers1
That's not what Trump intended at all - illegal immigration cuts wages in the United States for the very poor because it takes away jobs from them that are accessible, a bit like the two million 'guest workers' in Australia that work in hospitality etc. Trying to restrict illegal immigration needs to be seen in that lense not in 'keep those foreigners out' kinda language.

There's a pretty significant tax burden faced by resident workers in competing against the ten million or so 'non-residents' - it shouldn't be racist to say things like that. "Some of them are decent people" Trump also said - the point was that at the time there was a lot of blue collar discontent that Trump managed to harvest.

It's all history now.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Whether or not Trump is racist isn't entirely relevant. What we do know is that he chose a strategy that played to racists, emboldened racists, and empowered them.

His constant use of racist rhetoric from day 1 of his campaign for the presidency ("They're all rapists and murderers") essentially gave the worst people in that country permission to think it was ok to agree with it. Then when he won, and became the President, that gave them permission to act on it.

That's why you see rich white middle aged people standing outside their mansions pointing guns at peaceful black lives matter protesters that are just walking past. That's why you here stories of 'Karens' approaching random people in the street and demanding to know if they have a green card. That's why you see a white boy take his muscle car and plow through a crowd of mostly black people at a candlelight vigil. These people aren't racist because of Trump, they are just emboldened by the fact that the guy in the white house thinks the same as them, and if anybody out there has a problem with it, they should go talk to him.


Maybe he isn't really a racist at heart, and he doesn't really believe all of the nasty things he has said about Mexicans, or about Muslims, or about certain "S*#t hole countries" but personally, I think if he doesn't believe all of that, then instead he is still willing to use it just to manipulate uneducated frightened people into voting for him so he can get more power over those same people. If that is the truth of it, then he is genuinely a monster and should probably be locked in a rubber room for the remainder of his natural life.
I could not have explained it better if I tried. You're right. If he isn't racist he sure is playing to the racist underbelly.

Michael
That's not what Trump intended at all - illegal immigration cuts wages in the United States for the very poor because it takes away jobs from them that are accessible, a bit like the two million 'guest workers' in Australia that work in hospitality etc. Trying to restrict illegal immigration needs to be seen in that lense not in 'keep those foreigners out' kinda language.

There's a pretty significant tax burden faced by resident workers in competing against the ten million or so 'non-residents' - it shouldn't be racist to say things like that. "Some of them are decent people" Trump also said - the point was that at the time there was a lot of blue collar discontent that Trump managed to harvest.

It's all history now.
don_dunstan
Don, if you want to have a honest debate and not have people going off at you, quote everything he said, not just the things you think makes Trump look good. He did not just say "Some are decent people". He did say Mexico sends their rapists and drug dealers and I am assume some of them are decent people.

a bit like the two million 'guest workers' in Australia that work in hospitality etc.

There are 2.6 Million casual workers in Australia. Can you prove that 2 million of them are from Overseas?

There are ways and means about discussing Immigration without throwing red meat to a lot of his base, Don. A significant proportion of his base are white supremists, pure and simple. And Don you cannot just blame illegal migration for cutting wages. The minimum wage is $7.50 in which almost all Republicans and many Democrats do not wish to raise.

As regards to illegal immigrants, Obama was far tougher on illegals, he deported far more.

Blue collar discontent. Did Trump and his Administration put in place any policies that actually helped the working class? Hell he tried to dismantle the affordable health care provision, without having a plan of his own. Affordable Health care was far from perfect but it allowed millions of extra people healthcare that would otherwise not have.


Michael
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Don has made some good points, Trump, as a business man, spotted a market, the white working class treated as mere expandable factory fodder by one side of politics, and brutish unwashed thugs by the other, and ran with it. He has an eye for the money, not for skin colour. He reintroduced pride to the ideas of economic interventionism, and American non-intervention. He was the only Western leader willing to put money into vaccine development. Yet his final days revealed his basic childish, greedy, bullying nature. Incapable of accepting defeat with grace, stimulated beyond excitement of his ability to get others to start a fight on his behalf, and now unwilling to accept responsibility for the havoc he has caused. A tragic figure of gigantesk proportions.

The gratuitous reference to Elvis, a true gentleman, is a much greater example of ignorant presumptuous racism than anything ever said by Trump.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, if you want to have a honest debate and not have people going off at you, quote everything he said, not just the things you think makes Trump look good. He did not just say "Some are decent people". He did say Mexico sends their rapists and drug dealers and I am assume some of them are decent people.

a bit like the two million 'guest workers' in Australia that work in hospitality etc.

There are 2.6 Million casual workers in Australia. Can you prove that 2 million of them are from Overseas?
mejhammers1
Greetings from Free Australia.

Those figures were from a Productivity Commission Report from 2016 (can't be bothering doing links but I'm sure that phrase alone will find it) which examined migration through all sources and concluded that there were at that stage almost two million transient/students/visa holders all of whom had working rights including spouse, educational, protection etc etc. This includes people who've applied for protection and are having their application processed (bridging visas). Most of those people are also exercising their rights to work or have some kind of entitlement to economic support in this country while here - it's not the cheapest of places to live globally.

Its a really surprising number I know but that's the national figure for visa holders with working rights, I'm guessing most of them are also in Sydney and Melbourne where most of the jobs nationally are.
There are ways and means about discussing Immigration without throwing red meat to a lot of his base, Don. A significant proportion of his base are white supremists, pure and simple. And Don you cannot just blame illegal migration for cutting wages. The minimum wage is $7.50 in which almost all Republicans and many Democrats do not wish to raise. As regards to illegal immigrants, Obama was far tougher on illegals, he deported far more. Blue collar discontent. Did Trump and his Administration put in place any policies that actually helped the working class? Hell he tried to dismantle the affordable health care provision, without having a plan of his own. Affordable Health care was far from perfect but it allowed millions of extra people healthcare that would otherwise not have. Michael
mejhammers1
Those huge numbers must have some really significant impact on the ability of the average blue collar to find okay-paid work in the Land of the Free?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

As regards to illegal immigrants, Obama was far tougher on illegals, he deported far more.
mejhammers1
Well of course.

Barack Obama did not have to make his policies while also considering the impact on his ownership of a real estate and hospitality portfolio that was over US$400,000,000 in the hole even without the additional impost of paying the higher wages demanded by US citizens.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Vote fell 10 short for conviction. Will Trump be well enough or alive in 2024 to run again?

I hope he disappears quietly into retirement.

As for the 7 Republican senators who crossed the floor - you have spines. The rest don't.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

It is a very polarised nation at the moment.

To the dems, Trump is like the bogey man main villain in a horror flick. No matter what you fire at him, he keeps getting up and doing his thing.

It will he interesting from hereon to see if anyone from the GOP tries to take the narrative away from him. It was reported yesterday that Nikki Haley has turned on Trump. Could she be planning a tilt in 2024?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Vote fell 10 short for conviction. Will Trump be well enough or alive in 2024 to run again?

I hope he disappears quietly into retirement.

As for the 7 Republican senators who crossed the floor - you have spines. The rest don't.
Carnot
Yes he can, but will he? Unlikely! The only reason the vote for him will improve is if Biden/Harris are completely on the nose. Even going up against Hillary he couldn't manage to get the popular vote so I suspect his advisors will be saying not recommended if he doesn't want to go through a 2nd defeat again.

More likely and was always going to be the case if he won was that he wanted a dynasty with a family member running in 2024. He will likely support this as the Republicans will more likely support it as well.

The Republican's have a shrinking support base as so they will at some point need to engage in more "left" style politics and have and a less white representation. Every time I'd see Ivanka (who is very attractive) with her long blonde hair, pale white skin often dressed in white with hubby in tow, it always reminded me of futuristic (like Hunger games) or other white supremacy type movies. Also like India where Bollywood actresses are often whiter than me.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Never underestimate the capacity of someone to reinvent themselves.

Not that I think its likely he'll run again.

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