V/Line Incidents/Disruptions #2

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
On the PM Up Swan Hill today for a bit of a change. This is the new and improved service which skips Woodend! Whoop de do!

The service is timetabled to cross the PM Down Echuca at Castlemaine and utilises P2 for this purpose

Rather inconvenient for the couple of hundred students for whom this is the new Schoolies Express but even more so for the motorists wanting to use the Walker St LX

A favourable wind meant that I could hear the horn blasting and then the crossing bells chiming long before the loco hoved into view. Having to slow for the Medium Speed (65) turnout from the main onto the crossing loop means that the train takes an eternity to crawl through and I noted a large number of cars and trucks crossing while the train limped it's way towards me.

I would have thought letting the Up service run straight into P1 and the Down run out of P2 would have saved a fair whack of down time for those gates - the Velo is able to get out of the gates from a stand at P2 and over the crossing very quickly indeed

Just another poor outcome from our new but definitely not improved TT
  Carnot Minister for Railways

I've found some services are better, others are not on the Bendigo line with the new timetable.

As for today - something's gone awry between Watergardens and Diggers Rest this evening. Lots of delays. I suspect it's to do with the Sunbury line 'upgrade' works....
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I've found some services are better, others are not on the Bendigo line with the new timetable.
Carnot
Agreed Carnot, as I have posted somewhere the Down 09.05 (ex 9.13/14) is an absolute corker, I have caught it 3 times so far, quicker than the old service by 13 minutes as timetabled and on time in to CME each and every trip so far which is unusual for counter peak services. Still plenty of padding in it to, it slows to a crawl on the Up side of Kyneten and saunters into P2 to cross the AM Up Swanners which is normally a bit tardy.

The 16.49 Up ex CME is also pretty good, timetable shows it as slow but as Kuldalai has said elsewhere there is so much fat built into the TT that it runs early into Footscray, 7 minutes early the first time I got it, 5 the second time, both after getting held up at Albion for minutes (which seem like hours when you are sitting there waiting, waiting, waiting

But some services are much slower and after all the pain we went through (with more to come) in terms of shutdowns it is over all a pi$$ poor outcome for the regional traveller. And for me the Up early evening TT is not convenient at all, the old one was quicker and better spaced.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Well V/line are being just plain old lazy now.  

Implementing the full "Extreme Heat Timetable" on the entire Bendigo and Seymour lines after 12:00 today when we are expecting a top temp of 35c, and Melbourne only 29c.

Swan Hill is a bit toasty with a top of 38c, but why implement a 90 km/h line limit South of Bendigo when it won't be over 36c at all?

Lazy.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Now that is fascinating

  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Now that is fascinating
bevans
Not sure i'd call it fascinating, but you can thank Metro for almost getting the 16:46 Wyndham Vale cancelled.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Sorry about this but I just had to vent. Rode the 6:25am down Bendigo service this morning. Normally timetabled to go ahead of a stopping-all-stations spark, someone in the control room decided it would be OK for us to get stuck behind it instead and we reached Sunbury 25 minutes behind schedule.
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Sorry about this but I just had to vent. Rode the 6:25am down Bendigo service this morning. Normally timetabled to go ahead of a stopping-all-stations spark, someone in the control room decided it would be OK for us to get stuck behind it instead and we reached Sunbury 25 minutes behind schedule.
railblogger
It's just Metro being Metro by prioritizing their services over V/Line. It happens all the time across the network but goes largely unreported. It's one of the main reasons i'm not in favor of running Geelong's via Werribee as these issues will soon arise.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I suppose it also depends on the controller.  Early this century there was only one down Werribee service in the afternoon via express route, and I made a purpose trip just to ride that.  It got held up at Franklin St. to allow two V/Line trains to overtake.  This train was also scheduled to overtake an Altona loop service by running via the express route, so it's also scheduled to skip Aircraft.  However because of the delay, the loop train got in front and we crawled all the way from Laverton to Hoppers Crossing.
    After the opening of RRL Bendigo trains only share suburban tracks between Albion and Sunbury.  That train lost 25 minutes just in that section?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Sorry about this but I just had to vent. Rode the 6:25am down Bendigo service this morning. Normally timetabled to go ahead of a stopping-all-stations spark, someone in the control room decided it would be OK for us to get stuck behind it instead and we reached Sunbury 25 minutes behind schedule.
It's just Metro being Metro by prioritizing their services over V/Line. It happens all the time across the network but goes largely unreported. It's one of the main reasons i'm not in favor of running Geelong's via Werribee as these issues will soon arise.
jakar
Hi Jakar, I thought that this was verboten under the new government agreement with Metro Trains

Most Down Bendigo services that I catch these days see the Spark held at Sunshine while we clear the section beyond Albion
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@route14 Yes.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
@route14 Yes.
railblogger
Yep. If they stick an SAS Sunbury in front of you at Sunshine you are toast.

First of all they shunt you over the at grade RRL junction to get you out of the way of the important Geetroit and Ballarat line trains. Then you sit in the short section between there and the merge on the Up side of Albion while the spark clears the section (I have experienced some long delays just sitting there, all you need is a crush load or a wheelchair or other delay at Albion)

Then you speed off for a few hundred metres before being redlighted again short of Ginifer. From there the pattern repeats as you stop-start your way to Sunbury. If you are really lucky you might overtake the spark at WaterGardens with the new track configuration but much of the time there will be an Up or Down WG short in P2 which prevents this move.

Even the Down PM Flagship Express used to cop this treatment back when I used to occasionally get it and the Down 17.31 limited express which I regularly caught for a few years was regularly 20+ minutes late through Sunners
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
EVERYTHING stopped at Melton this morning for 2 hours so far...due to dew on the tracks.

The dew, combined with weed spray has apparently made the rails too slippery for trains to travel on. Never mind that in the old days, common sense would intervene and drivers would adjust their driving for the conditions of the track. These 'nanny state' days we have to wait an hour or so, then cancel the train and leave utter confusion till it's decided to operate the train after all.

Clearly some clown in head office is too reluctant to advise the driver to address their concerns to drive according to the conditions, but I'm sure the driver had recent memories of the Lydiard Street railway gates incident as well.

So pleased that like others, I whipped out my...Surface Pro and started working whilst we were stuck in the platform at Melton.

At Maddingley Loop...slowly making my way home...Thursday is AMEX'ed.

Mike.
l
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Hi Jakar, I thought that this was verboten under the new government agreement with Metro Trains
BrentonGolding
It may be verboten but it still occurs. Even if they don't class it as prioritization they would appear to prefer a v/line service run 20+ minutes late than have one of theirs run a couple of minutes late.  

Never mind that in the old days, common sense would intervene and drivers would adjust their driving for the conditions of the track.

Clearly some clown in head office is too reluctant to advise the driver to address their concerns to drive according to the conditions
The Vinelander
Sorry Mike but you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, its not a driver issue, its a Vlocity issue.

There was an incident just yesterday out that way where a driver struggled to stop at a station so they approached the next one extremely cautiously and still went sailing out the other end without getting a single door on. There's been plenty of times where i've had it well under control coming into a platform only to have a low speed slide for a long distance. What can a driver do different?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Never mind that in the old days, common sense would intervene and drivers would adjust their driving for the conditions of the track.

Clearly some clown in head office is too reluctant to advise the driver to address their concerns to drive according to the conditions
Sorry Mike but you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, its not a driver issue, its a Vlocity issue.

There was an incident just yesterday out that way where a driver struggled to stop at a station so they approached the next one extremely cautiously and still went sailing out the other end without getting a single door on. There's been plenty of times where i've had it well under control coming into a platform only to have a low speed slide for a long distance. What can a driver do different?
jakar

We've had V'Locity's in operation for over 15 years, therefore any braking bugs should have been ironed out long ago.

However I'm a pax with little or no knowledge of train driving...perhaps the sand box would assist the brakes to work and also as this is now the 15th Autumn we have had dew on the tracks...and there will be many more before Winter comes.

Clearly if the issue is more than sanding the tracks, perhaps a chat to your union delegate, with a friendly reminder of your lived experience.

Mike.
  Djebel Locomotive Fireman

Hi Jakar, I thought that this was verboten under the new government agreement with Metro Trains
It may be verboten but it still occurs. Even if they don't class it as prioritization they would appear to prefer a v/line service run 20+ minutes late than have one of theirs run a couple of minutes late.  
jakar
Metro have performance targets to meet, with fines resulting if they fail to meet those targets.  Is there a similar fine levied every time they delay a V/Line service?

Because if there's no penalty for breaching the rule, it's hardly even a guideline.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

Hi Jakar, I thought that this was verboten under the new government agreement with Metro Trains
It may be verboten but it still occurs. Even if they don't class it as prioritization they would appear to prefer a v/line service run 20+ minutes late than have one of theirs run a couple of minutes late.  

Never mind that in the old days, common sense would intervene and drivers would adjust their driving for the conditions of the track.

Clearly some clown in head office is too reluctant to advise the driver to address their concerns to drive according to the conditions
Sorry Mike but you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, its not a driver issue, its a Vlocity issue.

There was an incident just yesterday out that way where a driver struggled to stop at a station so they approached the next one extremely cautiously and still went sailing out the other end without getting a single door on. There's been plenty of times where i've had it well under control coming into a platform only to have a low speed slide for a long distance. What can a driver do different?
jakar
Any autumn trees nearby?

Yarragon is a ripper when the poplar trees drop their leaves.  Slip slid and wonder how many doors will be left on the platform.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@Djebel Yes. V/Line pays penalties for late running even though it is owned by the government.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

You misunderstood the question.  If Metrol is fined for making a decision that makes V/Line fined for the delay, decisions will be made differently.
  Djebel Locomotive Fireman

You misunderstood the question.  If Metrol is fined for making a decision that makes V/Line fined for the delay, decisions will be made differently.
route14
Exactly my point.  Sounds like there is no such....incentive for Metrol though.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

Sorry to hear of Vinelander’s bad experience.

V’locity trains have a pretty woeful brake during slippery conditions. Sanding is done to the trailing power bogie only, reflecting they were built as 2-car sets. Now as 3, only one bogie of 6 benefits. Maybe not so bad powering, where you just happily lose time; braking is an idea drivers hate.

I suspect design reflects the NSW problem of over-sanding leading to a spark running into 3801’s train on Cowan, hence sanding behind the first bogie.

Same design feature likely to be contemplated by ATSB Liddiard St.

Herbicide is the most slippery substance I’ve encountered. I recall a Glen Waverley driver on the first ran into it at Syndal; he skidded through the platform, skidded back, then skidded through again, all with brakes in emergency. Disc brake ComEng. I doubt a V’locity would do much better.

Best solution is to run a loco over a few times sanding all the way.

Seems to me that the designer prioritised the wheels not getting flat tyres over the driver wanting to stop. Even in emergency.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

Sorry to hear of Vinelander’s bad experience.

V’locity trains have a pretty woeful brake during slippery conditions. Sanding is done to the trailing power bogie only, reflecting they were built as 2-car sets. Now as 3, only one bogie of 6 benefits. Maybe not so bad powering, where you just happily lose time; braking is an idea drivers hate.

I suspect design reflects the NSW problem of over-sanding leading to a spark running into 3801’s train on Cowan, hence sanding behind the first bogie.

Same design feature likely to be contemplated by ATSB Liddiard St.

Herbicide is the most slippery substance I’ve encountered. I recall a Glen Waverley driver on the first ran into it at Syndal; he skidded through the platform, skidded back, then skidded through again, all with brakes in emergency. Disc brake ComEng. I doubt a V’locity would do much better.

Best solution is to run a loco over a few times sanding all the way.

Seems to me that the designer prioritised the wheels not getting flat tyres over the driver wanting to stop. Even in emergency.
hbedriver
Don't discount millipedes at this time of year.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Every Swan Hill service has been cancelled this weekend. No real explanation given either.

Not much of a service...
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Every Swan Hill service has been cancelled this weekend. No real explanation given either.

Not much of a service...
Carnot
Wheel fault found during examination on one set, power supply fault on another set, and today there was/is an issue getting vehicles out of the Bank sidings to dock up.

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