NG deviations between Crystal Brook and Gladstone

 
  S550 Station Master

Location: Perth WA
Good evening all

I am tracing the old NG route in the Gladstone region and hope someone can help me where there appear to be two NG formations cross each other in Googleearth imagery.

The location is approx 1 km west of the old townsite of Huddleston, or more precisely, if you copy these figures into the search box:

-33.3337  138.2733

Can you confirm which is the later, and if possible, when was the change?

Thanks
S550

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  duttonbay Minister for Railways

There was a thread about this here: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p733854.htm although it was quite confused due to there not being any mention in Bill Callaghan's article in the September 2006 Australia Railway History.

It appears that the deviation at/near Huddleston was done in 1898.
  S550 Station Master

Location: Perth WA
Hello Duttonbay

Thanks for your reply, I've looked thru the thread you reference and as you say, its a bit confusing, even more so now as most of the links no longer work.

The "spur" referred to there appears to be the western end of a complete deviation.

I'm making an image from Googleearth, annotated to show what I mean, and I'll put that up tomorrow. Sorry for teh delay.
S550
  SAR On track Beginner

S550

Just for information to assist with your “tracing”, in some instances the SA Government Map Viewer (accessible at Location SA Viewer ) will provide more recent and better resolution images of country SA than Google Earth.  It might assist you with your research,

cheers
  S550 Station Master

Location: Perth WA
Hi SAR on track

Thanks, I have also used Location SA Viewer, it is sometimes more detailed.

You can also see teh 2 old formations crossing each other at the same lat/long which I quoted, in that imagery.

But the previous discussion referred to a "spur" whereas you can see that the formation is a complete loop, I just want to know which is the older and when did it change.

I have made an image which will show what I'm talking about, just having trouble posting it where I can quote a link to it.

S550
  S550 Station Master

Location: Perth WA
Hi folks

Thanks for previous messages, my apologies for delay but I hadn't uploaded anything for a while and server access had changed!

I have put an image here to better illustrate my query:

http://www.geoproject.com.au/temp/huddleston2.jpg

The green line is the SG alignment opened 1970. The yellow line is an old alignment, I think its the NG closed in 1970, but there is also another alignment clear in the air photos which I've traced in purple between "B" and "C".  The two formations cross at "A" which is the point I quoted first.

The purple formation looks older, but I'd welcome any confirmation, especially when it changed?

Thanks again
S550
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
Hi folks

Thanks for previous messages, my apologies for delay but I hadn't uploaded anything for a while and server access had changed!

I have put an image here to better illustrate my query:

http://www.geoproject.com.au/temp/huddleston2.jpg

The green line is the SG alignment opened 1970. The yellow line is an old alignment, I think its the NG closed in 1970, but there is also another alignment clear in the air photos which I've traced in purple between "B" and "C".  The two formations cross at "A" which is the point I quoted first.

The purple formation looks older, but I'd welcome any confirmation, especially when it changed?

Thanks again
S550
S550
A source of dating information that may be helpful is historic topographical maps.  I have downloaded and looked at the 1982 1:100000 sheet of Pirie which shows your yellow alignment as a dismantled railway.  The contour information shows a general downward slope towards the south in the area of the alignments with a rise between B and A and a small stream flowing south between A and C.  This suggests that the purple alignment is older and followed the contour rather than the more direct route of the yellow alignment.  I notice that the yellow alignment in the bottom left of your image has a series of reverse curves of similar curvature to the purple alignment.

The elevation data in Google Earth shows the the yellow alignment is at a height of 198m at B then rises to 211m at A falling to 208m in the vicinty of the stream before climbing to 223m at C.
  S550 Station Master

Location: Perth WA
Hello 62430

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree about old maps, and I've checked the older Series R502 sheet "SI54-05 BURRA" which is compiled 1966, scale 1:250000. This shows my yellow line, again suggesting that the purple line is older, so teh yellow may be the 1898 deviation talked about by Bill Callaghan.

In some ways that is atypical, most of the 1898 deviations involved a making a more circuitous route to lengthen the line and thereby reduce the grade, but in this case maybe teh grade easing was achieved only by making cuttings/embankments more substantial?

S550
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

When loads increased but locomotives stayed virtually the same the railways would tend to rid them selves of what is called a rail line around the contours of the earth as it is in a spot and straighten it out and lower the grade if possible to make it possible to haul greater loads through a section, only so much can be done though by doing this.  But until larger locomotives or money became available to build a complete new track then deviations like this had to suffice.

 As locomotives got bigger also the curves etc had to be able to take them as older steam locomotives on NG at least for SAR where quite diminutive in size and quite small and smaller locos can go around tight curves but a larger loco might not be able to at track speed and so a deviation is put in to allow the larger locos to get through that spot at nearly full line speed rather than crawling through and risk stalling there. Possibly why a deviation was made there at that spot simply to remove a problem encountered by either larger locomotives or large tonnages to haul.
  S550 Station Master

Location: Perth WA
Thanks for your note.

The more I look at the imagery, the more it seems the purple line is the older - the cuttings and embankments on the yellow line are more substantial, so probably they are later.

Thanks
S550
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
The cutting on the yellow line also goes through, is lower than the purple line at point A, normally indicating that it is more recent, unless the farmer has been maintaining it as an access track. If the purple were more recent, one would expect to see traces of an embankment built where it crosses the yellow line.
  S550 Station Master

Location: Perth WA
Thanks Billy, yes it seems clear the purple line is the older, even though its teh shorter route.

Another one ticked off...
Thanks to all.
S550

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